G1W - Replace battery with capacitor

[jeuda]

For what its worth - the 5.5V 1F super cap appears to working exactly as expected.

My settings and time are now saved between uses - and I only lose about the last 2-3 seconds of footage when my cam shuts down (which might actually be normal). No corrupt files that I've seen!

Thanks Sism!

So, do I just get the 1F or get bigger? Have you flash your firmware?

 

[michal_PL]

Has anyone been able to successfully replace the battery in G1WH with a capacitor? If so, how did you get round the problem of the last file being corrupted?

 

[SawMaster]

Nice to see the 'experimenting' here. Please keep us all updated!

Phil

 

[Module 79L]

Has anyone been able to successfully replace the battery in G1WH with a capacitor? If so, how did you get round the problem of the last file being corrupted?

The problem with doing it on a G1W-H is that you'll have to flash it with one of the G1W-C firmwares to avoid last file corruption and they may not be compatible or work properly on the H.

 

[SawMaster]

That's why I'm interested; I know of nobody who has tried this and if someone can make it work it will offer more choices to people willing to work with their cams like that.

I'd chance buyinga G1W or a G1WH just to play with if they could be convertible to caps, and it would be cheaper than buying another G1Wc. I don't want any battery models; too hot for that in the summer here.

Phil

 

[Module 79L]

That's why I'm interested; I know of nobody who has tried this and if someone can make it work it will offer more choices to people willing to work with their cams like that.

I'd chance buying a G1W or a G1WH just to play with if they could be convertible to caps, and it would be cheaper than buying another G1Wc. I don't want any battery models; too hot for that in the summer here.

Phil

The problem is that you face a dilemma trying this: you can't test the firmware until you have the capacitor installed and you're not going to buy a capacitor without knowing if the firmware will work. Looking at the various problems the G1W-C's have had with the firmwares, I seriously doubt they'll work on the H's just because it has a capacitor.

 

[michal_PL]

Isn't there a capacitor (or capacitors connected together) that you could use in G1WH instead of the stock battery that would work without having to touch the firmware? I mean a capacitor that would be able to power the camera for as long as it needs to be powered on the stock G1WH firmware after it is disconnected from the power source (i.e. a few seconds). Or would that kind of capacitor be too big for this camera?

I can image that it could make a difference whether you use the screen off feature or not, as the camera for sure uses much more power in these last few seconds of recording when the LCD is on.

 

[Dashmellow]

Isn't there a capacitor (or capacitors connected together) that you could use in G1WH instead of the stock battery that would work without having to touch the firmware? I mean a capacitor that would be able to power the camera for as long as it needs to be powered on the stock G1WH firmware after it is disconnected from the power source (i.e. a few seconds). Or would that kind of capacitor be too big for this camera?

I can image that it could make a difference whether you use the screen off feature or not, as the camera for sure uses much more power in these last few seconds of recording when the LCD is on.

You might be able to use high capacity supercaps to power the camera but they will be too big to fit inside the G1W housing. The solution is to mount them outside the camera. See THIS thread for photos and an explanation of what I am talking about.

Regarding the whole idea of installing your own super-capacitors in a battery powered camera, YES, it can work but the bottom line is that unless the firmware is designed to accommodate capacitors it can be problematic and after over a year of dedicated experimentation and some good success, I would not recommend it.

In my case, I installed super-capacitors in a GT680W (very similar in many ways to the G1W series whose heritage stems from the LS and GT family of NT96650+AR0330 based cameras) and got it working perfectly for weeks and then later, after trying higher quality caps, for months at a time. The last file would always be saved and in fact, the super-capacitors will regularly power the camera for eight seconds after power is shut to the device. Unfortunately, for some unexplained reason, eventually the camera started spitting out corrupt files on an intermittent basis. Oddly enough, some corrupt random files appear on the SD card yet sometimes the camera will still save the last file.

It appears that the super-capacitors will also require voltage balancing resistors along with the appropriate firmware to function properly in the long term. For some reason, even if you can get this working as I did, the capacitors will eventually fail because they become stressed when used in a camera not designed for it. At least that's my guess at this point.

So, anyone who wants to try this should do so at your own risk. If all else fails you can always go back and install another battery.

I don't regret this experiment for a minute. I had endless hours of fun doing it and learned a great deal and the camera is still in occasional use. Don't be afraid to try things like this even if it doesn't work in the end.

Also, the idea of installing larger capacitors and batteries outside a typical camera housing is something that I'm very pleased I came up with and plan to do elsewhere in the future, so the project gave me something to take forward. (I guess it was a textbook example of outside the box thinking....literally! )

 

[michal_PL]

Wow, that really is a comprehensive response. Most appreciated, thanks!!!

 

[Adam86]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but we have two of these G1W cameras and both batteries have had it. It seems a shame binning them and having to buy replacement cameras. I'm pretty good at soldering and would like to have a shot at replacing the batteries for capacitors and then flash the firmware so the camera shuts off properly.

Would any of these be up to the job?

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/25f-5v-super-capacitor-module-n55qq

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/15f-5v-super-capacitor-module-n54qq

Alternatively, if these two are no good are any of these others any good?

https://www.maplin.co.uk/c/components/electronics-components/capacitors/super-capacitors

Thanks in advance.

 

[Dashmellow]

Sorry to resurrect an old thread but we have two of these G1W cameras and both batteries have had it. It seems a shame binning them and having to buy replacement cameras. I'm pretty good at soldering and would like to have a shot at replacing the batteries for capacitors and then flash the firmware so the camera shuts off properly.

Would any of these be up to the job?

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/25f-5v-super-capacitor-module-n55qq

https://www.maplin.co.uk/p/15f-5v-super-capacitor-module-n54qq

Alternatively, if these two are no good are any of these others any good?

https://www.maplin.co.uk/c/components/electronics-components/capacitors/super-capacitors

Thanks in advance.

You'd want to use two 2.7V 10F super-capacitors such as THESE.

 

[Adam86]

You'd want to use two 2.7V 10F super-capacitors such as THESE.

Thanks for the quick reply!

What is the procedure to link two of these caps together exactly?

 

[Dashmellow]

Thanks for the quick reply!

What is the procedure to link two of these caps together exactly?

You can read my whole saga with super-capacitors HERE.

I used a small piece if copper to bind the capacitor posts together when I soldered them. You connect the caps in series. See the photos in post #1.

Unless you can flash the G1W-C firmware to your G1W this won't work. It sounds like you are aware of that.

Of course, another option would be to just replace your batteries with new ones if you can't get the G1W to work properly after you try the capacitors.

 

[Adam86]

Thanks for the help really appreciate it,

I'll look into that capacitor at Maplin, hopefully it I'll fit on the internal case as would rather have it all on the inside than have it outside like you did on your post with your camera.

 

[Dashmellow]

Thanks for the help really appreciate it,

I'll look into that capacitor at Maplin, hopefully it I'll fit on the internal case as would rather have it all on the inside than have it outside like you did on your post with your camera.

You're welcome!

There is a high likelihood that super-capacitors of the appropriate values will not fit inside a G1W but perhaps you'll get lucky. Maybe if you look around you'll find something else that will work. You want to end up with a total of 5V and at least 10F from each cap.

 

[SawMaster]

It seems to me that if the caps the factories fit into the G1W-C and G1W-HC cases are enough, then they should be adequate here too. If I were doing this I would use the biggest caps I could fit into the case as a starting point and see what happens from there. And in the cams I've seen there is the same space allotted for caps or battery. Let me know here if you'd like me to pull my -C and -HC cams apart to see what's in them Worst case you could always install another LiPo to get the cams going again if the cap conversion doesn't work

The more I learn about this, the more feasible a direct swap from battery to caps seems to be as long as you can get usable firmware installed. Caps tend to be self-regulating on charging, but the reverse would be problematic as batteries require a regulation circuit for charging. And even with a charging regulator in the circuit, I think the caps would still charge adequately though that might take more time than when designed for caps from the factory.

Phil

 

[Dashmellow]

It seems to me that if the caps the factories fit into the G1W-C and G1W-HC cases are enough, then they should be adequate here too. If I were doing this I would use the biggest caps I could fit into the case as a starting point and see what happens from there. And in the cams I've seen there is the same space allotted for caps or battery. Let me know here if you'd like me to pull my -C and -HC cams apart to see what's in them Worst case you could always install another LiPo to get the cams going again if the cap conversion doesn't work

The more I learn about this, the more feasible a direct swap from battery to caps seems to be as long as you can get usable firmware installed. Caps tend to be self-regulating on charging, but the reverse would be problematic as batteries require a regulation circuit for charging. And even with a charging regulator in the circuit, I think the caps would still charge adequately though that might take more time than when designed for caps from the factory.

Phil

The caps are not necessarily self regulating in the sense that the voltage between the two caps needs to be balanced or they will eventually become damaged. The super-caps will charge just fine even if there is regulation circuit intended for batteries but based on my experience with what I learned from my experimentation it is still not entirely clear to me whether the other circuitry is exactly identical between the G1W-H and the G1W-C. There may be slightly more involved here than just swapping super-caps for the batteries and flashing different firmware. The issue with caps is that a balancing resister may be required or they may eventually fail as in my experience three years ago.

 

[Module 79L]

Unless you can flash the G1W-C firmware to your G1W this won't work.

(...) as long as you can get usable firmware installed.

The devil is always in these "small" details.

 

[Dashmellow]

I found a photo of a G1W-C showing the super-caps that are factory installed. They are quite small so they can fit inside the camera housing suggesting that they are definitely not 10F caps. They may be 5F caps like used in the Mobius but it has always been my understanding that the lower value caps work in a Mobius because the camera has no LCD screen, speaker or other high current draining components like in a camera such as the G1W. For this project to have any chance of working at all it will be important to determine exactly which value caps are actually used in the G1W-C and find some that actually fit. Sourcing caps of the right size with the correct values can be a bit of a challenge. That was the reason for mounting external super-caps on my GT680W project, although there is at least a bit more room inside the G1W to work with.

 

[Adam86]

All your posts have been most helpful to me.

I went to Maplins as lunch time and the chap behind the counter got all the potential capacitors out and I tested each one in the case. The only one which was any good was the 5V 1.5F Capacitor so I decided to chance it.

I've removed the old battery, and soldered the cap in place, I then flashed the following firmware onto it : G1WC_2016.1021.11AM_12mbps (if anyone wants this I can attach it) and hey presto I now appear to have a fully functioning G1W converted dashcam that reacts exactly the same as my Mums G1W-C camera!

Saved myself £35 on having to buy another camera so I really appreciate it.