Dash cam with 120fps

duble ? then i am right Gigapixel domain :D
 
Ok it's been about 3 years so I'm going to bump this.

Is there any 120fps at 1080p dashcams now?

It feels to me dashcams haven't really moved on in quality since möbius.
 
Mobius is still a benchmark of a cam and still good, but we have seen improvements. More cams now can do 1440P and 1080@60fps :) Image quality is generally better as people have become more aware of the possibilities. But we still don't have a "Super-Cam" and we probably never will. As I see it, the problem is three-fold. First there is more heat with the higher processor speeds needed to do more FPS and we're close to the limit with that already. Active cooling is the next step forward ;) Second is that chip manufacturers aren't giving us what is needed to do better, probably because this is a small market segment. Only time will change that :( Third is that cam manufacturers are so deeply rooted in the "SOC" approach for cost reasons that no other approach is even being considered. And until they can sell enough expensive cams to make it a feasible choice that will not change :rolleyes:

Maybe in a few years we will have better. This is just something where progress is comparatively slow for a number of reasons. It's better than it was a few years ago and that is the best we're going to get unless technology makes a large jump forward instead of the incremental improvements they've always given us. I don't see that happening but it is still a good time to be a dashcam enthusiast :cool:

Phil
 
Ok it's been about 3 years so I'm going to bump this.

Is there any 120fps at 1080p dashcams now?

It feels to me dashcams haven't really moved on in quality since möbius.
Why do you want 120fps?

Most people are happy with 30fps for dashcams, 60fps for action cams, 120fps is only for smooth slow motion.

The big advance has been in dark sensitivity, in the dark the Mobius doesn't come close to the latest dashcams with Sony IMX291 Starvis sensors such as the A119S and Mini 0906 which can both do 60fps but are normally used at 30fps.

Also, most recent dashcams are reliable, use super capacitors instead of batteries, have HDR and accept almost any decent microSD card at all sizes instead of being very fussy, only working upto 32GB and needing formatting regularly. The Mobius still produces a decent image but it is outdated.
 
Cuz you get crisper images, and that are true to some degree, but if it is sunny and a 30 FPS camera are set to the same 1:6000 second exposure, then its 30 FPS will be just as good as the 120 FPS of the other camera with same exposure/iso setting, it will just have more of them.
But if individual frame exposure / ISO are the same 30 - 60 - 120 - 800 FPS then the results will be the same, if you take 120 frames in a second with 1:6000 exposure, then taking 30 with the same will give the same result you will just have 90 frames less.
 
I do like multi FPS cameras and i wouldn't mind 120 FPS in a dashcam, but only cuz then i could slow the dumb ass drivers down so their idiotic driving will be exposed for longer on youtube.

But as for picture clarity then i am no longer so focused on 60 FPS as i where before i had several x cameras to experiment with.
Sure a 60 FPS camera will have to use a faster minimum exposure compared to a 30 FPS camera, and so it would make crisper images, but when you get down there in the grey area and light start to fade if you force a camera to stay with a high FPS, then the footage will just get darker and darker as the sensor have less time to capture light for each image.
Off course you can compensate by cranking up ISO, but that only work so far before images become noisy.
 
Cuz you get crisper images, and that are true to some degree, but if it is sunny and a 30 FPS camera are set to the same 1:6000 second exposure, then its 30 FPS will be just as good as the 120 FPS of the other camera with same exposure/iso setting, it will just have more of them.
But if individual frame exposure / ISO are the same 30 - 60 - 120 - 800 FPS then the results will be the same, if you take 120 frames in a second with 1:6000 exposure, then taking 30 with the same will give the same result you will just have 90 frames less.
The way to get a crisper image is to use a more sensitive sensor so that you can use a faster shutter speed and thus reduce the motion blur. It wont make much difference when driving slowly in full sunlight but it does when driving faster or it is cloudy, and then at night it is very obvious that an IMX 291 Starvis camera gives a much sharper image than a Mobius. My Mini 0906 can read the country road signs at midnight using just light from normal headlights while traveling quite fast, a Mobius will start struggling even before sunset.
 
Yes faster sensors are the way to go with this, and then you might start to experiment with letting the camera stay at a higher FPS, but i am not even sure that's a good idea after all.
What i see now from my meager experimentation is that if a 60 FPS dashcam hold any advantage over a 30 FPS one, then it is only in a narrow window as the light fade and later come back in the morning.

And i an not even too sure about this, cuz i also have a feeling dashcams dont always select the same parameters for a exposure at least not if there is just a tiny bit difference our human eyes dont even see.
 
120fps at 1080p is easy for most proper cameras, I don't understand why this is difficult for dashcams. 30fps is just terrible. I mean we are not talking about 4K trying to reach 120fps.

If the camera has a maximum of 120fps it is more likely to capture a numberplate compared to a 4K camera.
 
Mobius is still a benchmark of a cam and still good, but we have seen improvements. More cams now can do 1440P and 1080@60fps :) Image quality is generally better as people have become more aware of the possibilities. But we still don't have a "Super-Cam" and we probably never will. As I see it, the problem is three-fold. First there is more heat with the higher processor speeds needed to do more FPS and we're close to the limit with that already. Active cooling is the next step forward ;) Second is that chip manufacturers aren't giving us what is needed to do better, probably because this is a small market segment. Only time will change that :( Third is that cam manufacturers are so deeply rooted in the "SOC" approach for cost reasons that no other approach is even being considered. And until they can sell enough expensive cams to make it a feasible choice that will not change :rolleyes:

Maybe in a few years we will have better. This is just something where progress is comparatively slow for a number of reasons. It's better than it was a few years ago and that is the best we're going to get unless technology makes a large jump forward instead of the incremental improvements they've always given us. I don't see that happening but it is still a good time to be a dashcam enthusiast :cool:

Phil

This is a good answer I think you are right it's probably to do with the cooling as the dashcam can be recording for much longer time periods compared to the average camera.

I thought things would have moved on much more by now though!
 
High frame rate cameras are intended for slow motion capture and serve no useful purpose for dash cams. Shutter speed will be far more effective in capturing plate numbers than frame rate. Generally speaking 60 fps is considered the top end for "normal" video capture with speeds of 120 fps and above more suited to slow motion video. Even high end cameras costing many thousands of dollars make the distinction between "video modes" and "slow motion modes".

That being said, improvements in technology are bringing the price of high frame rate - high resolution cameras down dramatically. Performance that at one time cost many tens of thousands of dollars is now available for a few thousand dollars.

Soon action cam style cameras that can shoot at extraordinarily high frame rates will be entering the market that cost less than $1000.

Sony is set to release the new RXO on October 17th, a rather amazing 4K action camera, especially considering the price. $699.99 USD!

Video Mode - 1080p @ 60fps

Slow Motion Mode up to 1000 fps @ 1920 x 1080p! Shutter speeds up to 1/32000 per second. One inch Exmor RS sensor!

rxo.png

sony_rxo_actionsport1.jpg

"The lightweight Sony RX0 Ultra-Compact Camera offers professional image quality in an action camera–sized form factor. Capable of outputting uncompressed 4K UHD video, it also records up to 1080p60 in-camera at 50 Mb/s in XAVC. A Zeiss 24mm-equivalent f/4.0 lens provides a wide, but not distorted, field-of-view. Its 21MP 1" stacked Exmor RS CMOS sensor produces minimal rolling-shutter artifacts, and is protected by the RX0's waterproof, crushproof, and shockproof body. Use the versatile, diminutive RX0 as a single camera that fits almost anywhere, or for multi-camera recording, timecode-sync up to five cameras. When connected to a Wi-Fi router, greater than five cameras can be synced, suiting the RX0 for concerts, stunts, and other multi-camera applications."

"A 1" Exmor RS CMOS sensor provides extended dynamic range and high-speed readout, even at super-slow motion rates of up to 960/1000 fps. This anti-distortion shutter features speeds up to 1/32000 per second, capable of freezing the action with minimal skew."



Sensor 1 x 1" CMOS
Backside Illumination Yes
Color Filter Bayer
Pixel Gross 21 MP
Effective Pixels 15.3 MP (Video)

Optics
Focal Length 7.7mm
35mm-Equivalent Focal Length 24 - Zeiss Tessar
Maximum Aperture f/4
Lens Elements 6
Minimum Focusing Distance 20.0" / 50.8 cm
Manual and auto-focus modes!

Recording
System NTSC/PAL
Recording Media microSD/HC/XC

Video Format 1920 x 1080p at 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 fps (50 Mbps XAVC S)

Slow Motion Mode
1000 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
960 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
500 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
480 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
250 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
240 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p


Still Image Resolution RAW: 21 Megapixel
JPEG: 21 Megapixel

Waterproof down to 33'

https://www.sony.com/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/dsc-rx0
 
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Lets not forget.... as dashcams are getting better, our eyes are getting worse!

I expect I'll have surrendered my driving license by the time we have 120fps from 1080p or higher :D
 
High frame rate cameras are intended for slow motion capture and serve no useful purpose for dash cams. Shutter speed will be far more effective in capturing plate numbers than frame rate. Generally speaking 60 fps is considered the top end for "normal" video capture with speeds of 120 fps and above more suited to slow motion video. Even high end cameras costing many thousands of dollars make the distinction between "video modes" and "slow motion modes".

That being said, improvements in technology are bringing the price of high frame rate - high resolution cameras down dramatically. Performance that at one time cost many tens of thousands of dollars is now available for a few thousand dollars.

Soon action cam style cameras that can shoot at extraordinarily high frame rates will be entering the market that cost less than $1000.

Sony is set to release the new RXO on October 17th, a rather amazing 4K action camera, especially considering the price. $699.99 USD!

Video Mode - 1080p @ 60fps

Slow Motion Mode up to 1000 fps @ 1920 x 1080p! Shutter speeds up to 1/32000 per second. One inch Exmor RS sensor!

View attachment 33173

View attachment 33172

"The lightweight Sony RX0 Ultra-Compact Camera offers professional image quality in an action camera–sized form factor. Capable of outputting uncompressed 4K UHD video, it also records up to 1080p60 in-camera at 50 Mb/s in XAVC. A Zeiss 24mm-equivalent f/4.0 lens provides a wide, but not distorted, field-of-view. Its 21MP 1" stacked Exmor RS CMOS sensor produces minimal rolling-shutter artifacts, and is protected by the RX0's waterproof, crushproof, and shockproof body. Use the versatile, diminutive RX0 as a single camera that fits almost anywhere, or for multi-camera recording, timecode-sync up to five cameras. When connected to a Wi-Fi router, greater than five cameras can be synced, suiting the RX0 for concerts, stunts, and other multi-camera applications."

"A 1" Exmor RS CMOS sensor provides extended dynamic range and high-speed readout, even at super-slow motion rates of up to 960/1000 fps. This anti-distortion shutter features speeds up to 1/32000 per second, capable of freezing the action with minimal skew."



Sensor 1 x 1" CMOS
Backside Illumination Yes
Color Filter Bayer
Pixel Gross 21 MP
Effective Pixels 15.3 MP (Video)

Optics
Focal Length 7.7mm
35mm-Equivalent Focal Length 24 - Zeiss Tessar
Maximum Aperture f/4
Lens Elements 6
Minimum Focusing Distance 20.0" / 50.8 cm
Manual and auto-focus modes!

Recording
System NTSC/PAL
Recording Media microSD/HC/XC

Video Format 1920 x 1080p at 24, 25, 30, 50, 60 fps (50 Mbps XAVC S)

Slow Motion Mode
1000 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
960 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
500 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
480 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
250 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p
240 fps Recorded at 1920 x 1080p


Still Image Resolution RAW: 21 Megapixel
JPEG: 21 Megapixel

Waterproof down to 33'

https://www.sony.com/electronics/cyber-shot-compact-cameras/dsc-rx0

Impressive image specs but odd interface choices: Only slow USB 2.0, No Wi-Fi AC? and temperature range 0-40 deg C - maybe a UK market only :)
 
Impressive image specs but odd interface choices: Only slow USB 2.0, No Wi-Fi AC? and temperature range 0-40 deg C - maybe a UK market only :)

The RXO, despite being extraordinarily rugged and waterproof is not a traditional "action camera", per se. It is intended for professional film production. As such, USB 2.0 is not a concern as the camera relies on Clean HDMI (uncompressed) for the heavy lifting and data transfer and the camera isn't intended for sub-zero shooting, probably in the interest of image and color stability. What excites me about the camera mostly is the lens, shutter system and the manual focusing capability along with the 1 inch sensor. If you looked at the web site in the link provided, you'll notice the imagery features dancers, Japanese drummers and children in candle light; not the kind of imagery one usually sees in typical action cam promotions. It is a professional "slo-mo" camera, probably the smallest one ever made.
 
The RXO, despite being extraordinarily rugged and waterproof is not a traditional "action camera", per se. It is intended for professional film production. As such, USB 2.0 is not a concern as the camera relies on Clean HDMI (uncompressed) for the heavy lifting and data transfer and the camera isn't intended for sub-zero shooting, probably in the interest of image and color stability. What excites me about the camera mostly is the lens, shutter system and the manual focusing capability along with the 1 inch sensor. If you looked at the web site in the link provided, you'll notice the imagery features dancers, Japanese drummers and children in candle light; not the kind of imagery one usually sees in typical action cam promotions.

the 1" sensor would be the most interesting part, something that needs to start happening and without products like this will never trickle down into the rest of the market once some volume can start to drive some sort of market with some price advantage and development cycle
 
the 1" sensor would be the most interesting part, something that needs to start happening and without products like this will never trickle down into the rest of the market once some volume can start to drive some sort of market with some price advantage and development cycle

Yeah, it's exciting to see a camera this size with that big a sensor. I think it may be an indication that Sony could be the first to shoehorn such a sensor into one of their consumer action cams.
 
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That new sony do look interesting, i would not mind trying it for a few days,,,,,,, in another location than Denmark,,,,, somewhere warm.
 
Why would you want this? All it would do is reduce your retention time to 1/4 what it is, which isn't great considering the current limits of 64gb and 128gb
 
Why would you want this? All it would do is reduce your retention time to 1/4 what it is, which isn't great considering the current limits of 64gb and 128gb
Use a 512GB memory card!
 
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