DashCamOnBoard
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We have long hot summers here in Florida, USA, but the actual temps top off at around 95F. But it bakes big time inside the car.
So it's clear to me that we're reaching the end of the road with how dashcams are currently being built and that something with more potential is the only way forward from here. I don't know what that solution may be, but I'm fairly certain that whoever gets to it first is going to have a huge market advantage over everyone else until the other cam manufacturers catch up. Tomorrow is calling- who will be brave enough to try to answer that call?
...So it's clear to me that we're reaching the end of the road with how dashcams are currently being built...
Given the increasing consumer demand and the limited space available for camera installation (windshield/rear window) the only conceivable way the current technology can address both sides of the issue is a remote camera(s)/central processor approach. At least that way there will be fewer constraints on the shape and size of the housing for those components that generate the bulk of the heat. Unfortunately power requirements for 24/7 operation is going to be an issue no matter what, and the demand for 4K, 60 FPS isn't going to make that any easier to solve.As I've been saying for several years now...
Given the increasing consumer demand and the limited space available for camera installation (windshield/rear window) the only conceivable way the current technology can address both sides of the issue is a remote camera(s)/central processor approach. At least that way there will be fewer constraints on the shape and size of the housing for those components that generate the bulk of the heat. Unfortunately power requirements for 24/7 operation is going to be an issue no matter what, and the demand for 4K, 60 FPS isn't going to make that any easier to solve.
Well it's not 56C summer heat, it's the buildup of heat in an enclosed vehicle. So it might be 45 or 50C outside, but 65 or 70C in an enclosed car. So rolling down windows to keep the car from baking and cracking or putting some heavy duty tinting on each window. None the less, global warming poses lots of challenges.
I'm sure jokkin being in AU is going to test the hell out of the redesigned product. He strikes me as a very concerned and intelligent individual. So I doubt Street Guardian is going to let an inferior quality product fly off the shelf.
Course, most of us will never see 45 or 50C+ in the foreseeable future, but making a universal product is important. You have the entire continent of Africa which is also very hot along with South and Central America. Basically anywhere near the equator.
SG cams are the most highly tested dashcams I'm aware of The Viofo 4K cams and those using the high-bitrate firmwares run hot; almost certainly due to working the processor and card harder than any other dashcam does. Seems that we're reaching the thermal limits of passively-cooled dashcams using the SOC system so we're either going to have to add active cooling or change to a cooler-running system to go much further with dashcam development
Some cams tout their having overheat shutdown as a feature making them good for high-heat usage, but I see that as a step backwards: Who wants a dashcam that intentionally might not be working when you most need it to? This importance of purpose and the potential costs of doing things a different way seems to point towards active cooling being what we will next see to address the high-heat problem. The downside of that is "active" means it's going to need more power- another problem for those using parking modes where the car's limited battery capacity is an issue already All the while, we consumers clamor for higher vid performance, more channels, huge wifi capabilities, and lower current draws in our cam choices
So it's clear to me that we're reaching the end of the road with how dashcams are currently being built and that something with more potential is the only way forward from here. I don't know what that solution may be, but I'm fairly certain that whoever gets to it first is going to have a huge market advantage over everyone else until the other cam manufacturers catch up. Tomorrow is calling- who will be brave enough to try to answer that call?
Phil
Considering I see ambient outside temps of 48 degrees C in summer at my house the cameras here need a bit more than standard for reliable parking mode.
I've measured temps of 80 degrees C using an infrared thermometer on my DC while not running when the car has been parked in the sun.
Even the A129 Pro only uses 4 watts, it is going to struggle to evaporate the coolant in a heat pipe!Even if i have barely seen fully remote systems yet, then it make so much sense to me, and you should even be able to deploy heat pipes to move heat from a confined place to a place where it can be better dissipated.
Yes, even adding a fan to a conventional heat sink doesn't help much if the air you are blowing over it is at 85 degrees C!come to think about it you are probably right, and the same would probably be the case with a large but conventional heat sink, after all it need some difference in temperature between hot spot on chip and the air to be able to dissipate heat.
The SoCs are always a bit behind on the manufacturing process, so we know the next generation will see significant improvements which will probably keep things OK, as long as the cooling of the camera is carefully designed.I dont think current SOCs are made on 7nm, probably more like 20 nm, and 7nm production lines seem pretty busy at the moment.
Even the A129 Pro only uses 4 watts, it is going to struggle to evaporate the coolant in a heat pipe!
Also, heat pipes require somewhere cool for the condenser so that they can condense the coolant, if the temperature in the car is over 80 degrees C then the coolant will not condense and the heat pipe will stop working.
If the processor is hidden then it can be placed somewhere cool, it is only the top of the car that exceeds 80 degrees C, with an outside temperature of 56 degrees C, the inside near the floor is going to be much cooler than 80 C so not a problem for a camera that only consumes 4 watts and which has a decent sized heatsink.
The problem at the moment is with the windscreen mounted dual 4K cameras where they are sitting in 80 degree heat and so a heatsink can't cool them down below 80 however big the fan is. They run very close to the maximum temperature and so a small increase in temperature makes a big difference to reliability.
I think the answer will be to use more efficient processors, if they can run at 2 watts instead of 4 watts then the problem is solved, if they move to 6 watts then they will have a problem in most countries. Processors do keep getting more efficient but recently we have been giving them more work to do faster than they have gained efficiency. We don't need to go to 8K so I guess the next generation of processors will be efficient enough, as long as people don't start to insist on 4K for all 4 channels! 4K front + 3x 1080 is still less than half the pixels of 8K, and if you have 4 channels then the rear camera can be reasonably narrow angle so that even 1080 resolution will read the plates behind easily.
Yes, but that only covers front, rear and the rear 2/3rds of the sides of the car, there is a bit missing where someone can hit your side mirrors without being captured; so I want the 4 channel version with the two interior sensors (front and rear) to cover the sides all around. The extra 1080 view would only be an extra 1/7th of the data.It'd be nice to have a 3 Channel Dash Camera! One facing Forward, One facing backward, and then a secondary lens on mail unit for Cabin / Taxi Recording. Honestly, the lack of side coverage is the biggest issue at the moment. With the only option being to run a second camera alongside the first one. And with laws already complaining about windshield visibility, adding another camera in some regions is asking for trouble. It'd be great if we could get a 4K Front + 1080P Built in to Main Camera (Taxi) + 1080P Rear. I think this standards would be more than sufficient long term.
Then it is still handling the same number of frames, same data from the sensor, more compression, just saves a bit on the data written to the card. If you halve the frame rate then it genuinely has half the work to do.I see this mentioned in some capacity, but my question would be, doesn't the processor on the cameras already tailor down when recording in low bitrate park mode? It isn't capturing at regular bitrate, so the processor itself, should be performing at a downclocked speed to reduce heat and energy usage?
Yes, but that only covers front, rear and the rear 2/3rds of the sides of the car, there is a bit missing where someone can hit your side mirrors without being captured; so I want the 4 channel version with the two interior sensors (front and rear) to cover the sides all around. The extra 1080 view would only be an extra 1/7th of the data.
Then it is still handling the same number of frames, same data from the sensor, more compression, just saves a bit on the data written to the card. If you halve the frame rate then it genuinely has half the work to do.
The 4th channel completes the picture, people won't be satisfied without it! It is only a little extra.But that extra stream adds more heat and requires more of the processor for little gain. If someone is going to hit your mirror, it is a near certainty you'll capture them on the interior cam and the mirror flying on either interior or front camera.
So a 4th channel is really little gain?