Note of thanks and a couple of questions.

AK3D

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I remember @TechTronic9000, @Nigel were very helpful when I had issues with my Gitup a year or so ago. Wanted to thank them, and @gitup for helping me. Another member I noticed helping with his firmware and inputs was @nutsey - keep up the good work.
I have the Git2P, and then went and bought a Yi 4K, another very good camera.

Recently, have been hearing a lot of good things about the DJI Osmo and the Insta360, anyone have recommendations or experiences with those?

Are there any action cameras doing 960fps? The most I see is 240, and there are phones doing 240fps, and interpolated 960fps.

Besides the DJI and Insta, are there cameras doing native H265/HEVC compression to save space?
 
I use ( well some times ) the Osmo action, and right now as it appear they are dumping stock in favor of a new model that might be out soon, it are a still pretty good value at the current low prices ( 230 USD )
The insta360 one R in the 1" flavor are also interesting to me, but with the osmo action and as little as i actually use these cameras i can not justify buying a new camera on my pension.
Most high end cameras today will do 240 FPS at 1080p, the insta one R however only do 200 as i recall, i dont think the super slo mo ( around 1000 FPS ) are in any of the action cameras, it is however something i would like to see ( 1080p )
Also i want to see 4K/60 HDR shooting.
I would also expect to see hardware support for even newer compression formats, beyond H.265, but i do think that are not something we will see in 2021 or 2022.

Even if EIS in the new high end cameras are damn good, i still want to spend 100 USD on a gimbal, with my OA camera that would allow me to record 4K/30 HDR footage that are stabilized by the gimbal.
Newer stuff might support the EIS also when shooting HDR, at least that would not surprise me.

TBH i think the market are turning more and more towards 360 cameras, and thats also fine, but i am not going there before those cameras are at least 12 mpix, so i can crop out a good flat 4K picture.
 
GoPro 8 & 9 have h265/HEVC, they will do 240fps in 1080p and 120fps in 2.7K. The 9 has great stabilization especially with "horizon lock" up to 4K and you get ~ +/-45° tilt stabilization, or even better with MAX lens mod & horizon lock up to 2.7K - for which you can rotate the camera around 365° and the footage will still be level. Both the 8 & 9 will do 100mbit/s bitrate on high and you can crop 4K and still have good details.
 
Yeah the new GP9 do have a few 1 ups over say my Osmo action, though personally i dont think it are features that could be much useful to me.

Regarding super slo mo, it will probably just be bursts like first on phones, but the latest snapdragon phone SOC and its ISP do allow for 1000 FPS recording for as long as you have storage space on the phone.
Not sure a micro SD card can take the write speed you need for 1000 FPS video, it would have to be one of the very very fastest memory cards at least if it was to work.

Really would like to see that ISP in a action camera.
 
I use ( well some times ) the Osmo action, and right now as it appear they are dumping stock in favor of a new model that might be out soon, it are a still pretty good value at the current low prices ( 230 USD )
The insta360 one R in the 1" flavor are also interesting to me, but with the osmo action and as little as i actually use these cameras i can not justify buying a new camera on my pension.
Most high end cameras today will do 240 FPS at 1080p, the insta one R however only do 200 as i recall, i dont think the super slo mo ( around 1000 FPS ) are in any of the action cameras, it is however something i would like to see ( 1080p )
Also i want to see 4K/60 HDR shooting.
I would also expect to see hardware support for even newer compression formats, beyond H.265, but i do think that are not something we will see in 2021 or 2022.

Even if EIS in the new high end cameras are damn good, i still want to spend 100 USD on a gimbal, with my OA camera that would allow me to record 4K/30 HDR footage that are stabilized by the gimbal.
Newer stuff might support the EIS also when shooting HDR, at least that would not surprise me.

TBH i think the market are turning more and more towards 360 cameras, and thats also fine, but i am not going there before those cameras are at least 12 mpix, so i can crop out a good flat 4K picture.
Thank you for your response.
The insta360 1" seems very interesting, but it's got its limitations.
As you said, the better cameras do 1080 240 and some of the lower end ones do 720 240.
Compression is also becoming more important, given the volume of files being generated day after day.
I agree, many cameras are going the 360 way, I just don't think I'm ready for that yet.
A good camera should have a good 'photo' mode, good control over distortion, and (for me), an HFR mode.

GoPro 8 & 9 have h265/HEVC, they will do 240fps in 1080p and 120fps in 2.7K. The 9 has great stabilization especially with "horizon lock" up to 4K and you get ~ +/-45° tilt stabilization, or even better with MAX lens mod & horizon lock up to 2.7K - for which you can rotate the camera around 365° and the footage will still be level. Both the 8 & 9 will do 100mbit/s bitrate on high and you can crop 4K and still have good details.
Thanks for the info @TechTronic9000 . The Gopro 9 seems very promising, especially with the stabilization and HEVC, but again, if you already have a camera like the Yi 4K doing some of this, you probably want to wait till there's a better model around that has a somewhat better feature set.
Yeah the new GP9 do have a few 1 ups over say my Osmo action, though personally i dont think it are features that could be much useful to me.

Regarding super slo mo, it will probably just be bursts like first on phones, but the latest snapdragon phone SOC and its ISP do allow for 1000 FPS recording for as long as you have storage space on the phone.
Not sure a micro SD card can take the write speed you need for 1000 FPS video, it would have to be one of the very very fastest memory cards at least if it was to work.

Really would like to see that ISP in a action camera.
Some of these Sony cameras (RX series) have 940fps and they record to SD card without problems. Many of the better microSD have a > 40 to 60 mbps write rate, and they should be able to handle the video output requirements. I'm not sure how they would behave with sustained write speeds though.

It's really nice to see how technology is advancing so fast, and we have more options than ever before!
 
I dont really do pictures with these little cameras, or my phone for that matter, in that case i go for my dslr camera.
 
Everyone likes newer, better, and faster but I don't want my many dashcams to require extremely high performance cards and their expense. As long as my images are good enough for me, lesser cards let me keep my many cams going and I'm happy with that.

Phil
 
I dont really do pictures with these little cameras, or my phone for that matter, in that case i go for my dslr camera.
Likewise, but of late, I've not been reaching for my DSLR. I was looking at something more compact, like a mirrorless. Changing lenses is a frustration when you just want to do photography casually. I've found you get good results with these little cameras, just that the super-wide field of view is a drawback for for more 'composed' photography, or portraiture.
I'd note that phones have come a long way and you can get very good results with a phone. Not SLR quality, just because you can do a lot more with a larger sensor and better optics.

Everyone likes newer, better, and faster but I don't want my many dashcams to require extremely high performance cards and their expense. As long as my images are good enough for me, lesser cards let me keep my many cams going and I'm happy with that.

Phil
Actually you wouldn't, unless you're shooting 4k60. Most cards that are U1 do well with 1080p60 and 4k for U3. They are quite cheap and work well, especially the samsung evo + range. A scenario where you're shooting HFR or 4K60 will require cards that can handle that data bandwidth.
 
Of course i do pictures too with my phone, but only stupid little quick share stuff, and most often as the battery in my dslr are empty and i can not bother waiting for it to be charged.

What i really want in a action camera are a standard sized battery, like 18650 batteries, and then i want just 1 opening for the battery and memory card and with a screw in lid not a hinged flap of some sort like seen om action cameras now, + only BT external microphone and also external charge of the battery no need to a charge plug in the camera, and of course a larger more dynamic sensor.
And then in the actual shooting pictures / video i would like 4K/60 HDR - 1000 FPS 1080p continuous - more user programmable modes like bracket shooting and time lapse.
In general more choices for the user.

I dont mind if action cameras are a little larger than today to accommodate a larger sensor and battery.

Not sure how it is with the micro cards, but larger memory cards you can get upwards of 2 GB/s speeds
 
Of course i do pictures too with my phone, but only stupid little quick share stuff, and most often as the battery in my dslr are empty and i can not bother waiting for it to be charged.

What i really want in a action camera are a standard sized battery, like 18650 batteries, and then i want just 1 opening for the battery and memory card and with a screw in lid not a hinged flap of some sort like seen om action cameras now, + only BT external microphone and also external charge of the battery no need to a charge plug in the camera, and of course a larger more dynamic sensor.
And then in the actual shooting pictures / video i would like 4K/60 HDR - 1000 FPS 1080p continuous - more user programmable modes like bracket shooting and time lapse.
In general more choices for the user.

I dont mind if action cameras are a little larger than today to accommodate a larger sensor and battery.

Not sure how it is with the micro cards, but larger memory cards you can get upwards of 2 GB/s speeds
I totally agree. I wish there were standard batteries devices used, so they didn't get obsolete. I had a great Olympus camera, then I couldn't find those batteries and it collected dust.
Same with phones - I really dislike the idea of this planned obsolescence. I have a perfectly working phone (not an iphone), that finally gave up the ghost after 3 years. The battery won't hold a charge. Replacing it isn't possible, so it's a waste of a working device.
Interesting to note,
Bought a cheap Poco phone from Xiaomi, it has 4K 30 AND slow motion 720p 240. It also has a 960fps mode, but on further research, that is interpolated. However, the way this works is it will only do 2-3 seconds at 960. I believe it is capturing to RAM, and then renders the video to the sd card.
240 is about 10 seconds of capture, while there are no issues with capturing at 1080p120 or 4K30.
There is a wide angle lens also.
Put this on a gimbal, and it works just as well as an action camera without the waterproofing and compactness.
It's somewhat the direction technology is headed.
From Compact cameras to phones and now heading from action cameras to phones. Phones are becoming an all-in-one device for so many things.
 
I got my first TV at the age of 44 or something like that, 10 years later i got bored with it, but it still worked, so now my friend have it to display his CCTV cameras on, and i have no TV.
I also keep my phones until they stop working, and i would still do that even if i was working and making money, but now on a pension there are not room for updating the phone with every new model that come out.
I have the Mi9 phone :)

I use to update my PC around every 2 years, but that are now more like 4 years, i dont need to as it do not interest me so much and i dont play games anymore, only hard work i do is video editing, and it is small stuff and rare i do it, and my computer handle even 4K footage just fine.
 
Well I could say that the Hero 8 (and the 9) are getting close to my 2 year old Xiaomi Mi 8 phone when it comes to pictures, but you have some other missing features such as focus, zoom, macro which none are possible on an action camera with fixed lens.
 

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The image from the mi is far better, it seems.
I agree with you. The action cameras are playing catch-up and are again catering to that 'action' niche.
It was wasn't too long ago where they were a good compact, wide angle and video / vlog alternative.
However, with the newer phones, and using a gimbal, you have both wide angle video, good crisp photographs, macro modes, HDR pictures, panorama pictures, slow motion videos etc. The only thing you lose is the 'sturdiness' and waterproofing of the regular action cameras.
Not to mention amazingly long battery life on phones, even when recording/editing on the phone itself.
 
I think much of the problem with the action cameras are two things.
1: The idea that they must always be smaller and smaller, to me they are plenty small, even the original gopro was small enough, IMO if they got a little larger it would not hurt.
2: ruggedness / waterproof. the action cameras can and are often exposed to things you can not ask of a phone to survive, not least due to a phones large screen.
But this are indeed paramount to a action camera in my mind, but i still think a waterproof case would be fine for waterproofing, if a camera was just rain proof i would be okay with that.

My largest gripe with the action cameras have always been the batteries, really 70 - 120 minutes of recording time on a charge are a joke, it should rather be 180 - 320 minutes of recording time ( or more )
A 18650 battery today will give you 3500 - 4000 MAH, thats a lot more then the 1300 - 1500 MAH you see in action cameras today, and it is a standard battery, so no need for the camera maker to design / buy special batteries.
I dont think i will buy a action camera again unless the battery are a standard one, for what i record i can easy make do with a phone and so really all i had to buy was a gimbal, so that route would be cheaper too.

The new insta360 one R, which have a large battery you can buy,,,,,, it is still a special battery but the size of it, it should just have been a dock for a regular 18650 battery you could replace.
I really think insta was stupid with that accessory.
 
@kamkar - I'm beginning to think the same way. The phone I got recently does all that an action camera does (including wide angle) and much much more.
The battery life is amazing, I'm getting 1.5 days with my normal usage, and I know people have used the MI 9s for hours as vlogging and video cameras.

There's some optimization lacking in Action cameras, I think. There is no excuse if a phone with a large 6" LCD running android can do hours of this, while a tiny dedicated device with a reasonable 1200mah battery doesn't even last a couple hours.
18650 is a very good format both for flashlights and for other accessories. I believe the only reason not to include it is if they use lipo batteries, or sell batteries at a higher cost to the consumer.

For the purpose you mention, a Feiyu SPG2 gimbal works for both action cameras and phones (I'm using it too, perhaps they have an updated model now - not sure of the latest ones).
 
Though action cams be lacking in vid performance and runtime, they're also required to be small. light. and rugged while phones aren't.

There's a couple reasons we don't see any powered by 18650's. First is what I call "stupid-proofing"- LiIon is unforgiving when abused and having your cam 'vent with flames' while you're flying or driving could have massive liability results. Second is that there's a crap-ton of junk cells out there which could cause functioning issues which the cam maker would have to address on a too-regular basis. Using a bespoke designed LiPo ensures that they can control and limit these issues. Another thing is that LiPo's can be any size and shape, but you'd have to design a cam around the 18650 and not the other way around which is how it's usually done now :(

I can't recall the cam name, but some time back a sailor came here to DCT using a waterproof tubular-shape action cam which was 18650-powered and it seemed to be a good design. I can see a place for this kind of powering among advanced cam users, but the general public can't handle it well enough as we've seen with flaming hoverboards and vaping devices :eek:

But I still agree on both points- cams should be better and there should be an 18650 powered model :cool:

Phil
 
I can't recall the cam name, but some time back a sailor came here to DCT using a waterproof tubular-shape action cam which was 18650-powered and it seemed to be a good design.
 
Yeah that must be the Warrior G1 and G1S cameras, i think i was the one that turned him on to those after he been thru a slew of SJ cameras ASO.
I cant remember what size 18650 are in those, but as i recall those batteries today go to 3500 maybe 4000 actual MAH, so with one of those you should at least see double the run time VS what are in action cameras today.
And you need to move that direction anyway if you are going up and up in performance.

Also saw in the news today that google and their henchmen now insist on AV1 support in more devises, you are not getting 8K streaming unless you have that.
 
That's the cam (y)

18650's hit a technological wall at about 3400mA, perhaps a little bit more. With the way these are made you simply can't get any more than that with them. Cells claiming much more than that are bogus or are stretching the truth, both are signs that you do not want that cell :cautious:

Phil
 
FWIW, Tesla's current 2170 cell is 5000 mAh and their new 4680 lithium cell which claims "breakthrough innovations in cell chemistry and materials" will be 56% cheaper than their previous cells and are projected to have a capacity of around 9000 mAh or greater.

Since they are in league with Panasonic in developing their battery technology perhaps some of it will trickle down to the consumer level?
 
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