I really need some help in deciding on the right cameras.

[DT MI]

It's a commonly held view that the closer the lens to the windscreen, the lesser the screen reflection problem.

This doesn't correspond with my experience. My SGZC12RC lens is just a few mm from the windscreen, yet suffers more reflections than my Mobius B did when mounted to the rooflining, with the lens a cm or more from the windscreen.

For a long time there was a kind of myth circulating here on DCT that the closer a camera is to the windshield, the fewer problems one will have with reflections. That turns out not to be quite true and it depends a lot on the particular vehicle as well as the rake of the windscreen. From my experience with a steeply angled front windscreen it is best to have the camera farther away from the glass to minimize reflections and closer to the glass if it is flat and vertical such as the rear window of a pick-up truck. There will always be some reflections on the rear glass but I find that with my rear Mobius mounted as in the photo above I don't generally have any serious problems even if I do see a reflection from time to time depending on the angle of the sun.

When I first replaced my G1W-x with a SG9665GC I was expecting a reduction in reflections and was surprised to find just the opposite. Since I had both installed at the same time it was easy to see the difference without confusing the issue with different lighting, time of day, direction of the sun, etc. As a result I did a bit of playing using a P&S digital camera just to see how positioning it at various distances from the glass affected the reflections.

This is how I had the G1W-x and GC mounted:



This the view/reflection from the driver's eye:



This from the G1W position:



This from the SG9665GC:



And this with the camera right next to the glass:



No question that, at least in this case, the reflections got progressively worse the closer the camera was to the glass.

 

[Lola]

if you have some heater elements in the footage that's only a matter of astechics, you would have to be damn unlucky if one of those was in the way for you to miss something important.

I just feel lucky i don't have that "issue" in my little car.

Having a rear camera is cool i think, there is a lot going on back there, some times you see it in the mirror, some times you just stumble over it looking thru footage for some other event you want to save or put on youtube.

O BTW and thx for the trip down memory lane by way of your username

You're welcome KamKar1, LOL!

 

[Lola]

When I first replaced my G1W-x with a SG9665GC I was expecting a reduction in reflections and was surprised to find just the opposite. Since I had both installed at the same time it was easy to see the difference without confusing the issue with different lighting, time of day, direction of the sun, etc. As a result I did a bit of playing using a P&S digital camera just to see how positioning affected the reflections.

This is how I had the G1W-x and GC mounted:

View attachment 25731

This the view/reflection from the driver's eye:

View attachment 25734

This from the G1W position:

View attachment 25735

This from the SG9665GC:

View attachment 25736

And this with the camera right next to the glass:

View attachment 25737

No question that, at least in this case, the reflections got progressively worse the closer the camera was to the glass.

Well DT, that sure kills what I had to say about sun angles and time of day!
It's amazing how it (reflections) definitely shows worse when looking from one to the other, exactly as you said. I would think that the only thing left to cause such definite samples of distortion would be in the lens design/properties, however I am definitely not a camera expert by any stretch of the imagination! If it hadn't have been for Dashmellow sticking with my learning slope, I would probably still be wondering what camera to buy.

 

[DT MI]

...I would think that the only thing left to cause such definite samples of distortion would be in the lens design/properties,...

I'm not sure how to interpret that comment. Just to clarify, those images were all taken with the same camera (Canon P&S, not a dash cam) moved to the various locations described. I did it to try to understand how the camera position affected reflections.

To expand a bit, at the time I had the GC mounted on the underside of the sensor housing (as seen in the first picture). Since then I've mounted it on the windshield and, without a CPL, there is a slight increase in reflections due to the lens being closer to the glass. A minor increase because of the small difference in distance but it's there if you look for it.

 

[Lola]

I understand your concerns about not wanting to put screw holes in your headliner and I went through the same process when I first decided to install the Mobius. Once I decided to commit to mounting a camera in that spot I concluded that I will likely always have a camera in that spot so having some holes there is something I was willing to live with. Previously, I used a suction cup type mount on the rear glass and that worked fine but it was pretty ugly and not very discreet.

If you want to mount a bracket up there over the window you will need to drop the headliner enough to gain access. I don't know what the 2001 Tacoma looks like or how it may differ from later models but if you watch THIS YouTube video about removing the headliner on a 2006 it will give you a good idea of what is involved. You can pretty much ignore most of it since you are not removing the entire headliner. All you want to do is have the ability to pull the rear of the headliner down far enough to allow you to work there. That will likely involved removing the coat hanger brackets which hold the liner in place and perhaps some trim. The 4:00 minute mark in the video will explain how that's done on the 2006, but your 2001 may be somewhat different. (They twist off with a counterclockwise quarter turn after possibly needing a flat screwdriver to press in a release tab.)

I used epoxy putty for expedience and because I happened to have a whole tub of it that a contractor gave me. The two part stuff I used gets kneaded into a ball and looks and feels kind of like silly putty when you are working with it. I masked off the headliner and window area where I was working and simply pulled back the headliner enough so that I could stick it up in there and press it into place. When it was all set up I had a small solid support behind the headliner that I could drill some screw holes in. The type of epoxy I used feels like you are working with wood after it has cured.

I've posted this photo before but here it is again to show how by doing a careful job you would never know there was some epoxy behind the headliner.
(BTW, I put some regular hook & loop Velcro (the hook side, of course) on the back of a plastic wire clip and it works surprisingly well holding to the fuzzy headliner material as a non-destructive means to secure the power cable.)
View attachment 25708

The two part putty I used looks like this after it cures.
Home Depot sells a similar product in a small 6 oz quantity for about 14 bucks.
View attachment 25710

Thanks for the link and explanation of mounting in your Tacoma. I've used the two part epoxy on lots of things, it's not for holding something really hard like the epoxy one mix's up (2 parts) and applies with layers of cloth. or the 2 part glue types of epoxy.
The type you show in your picture used to come in two tubes with snap on seal tops. You just unsnapped both tops turned the tubes upside down and out slid the 2 parts, laid them side by side and cut through both pieces (equal lengths), looked like "tootsie rolls". Kneaded them till you felt the heat building up then applied to the job site. It wasn't great on smooth work surfaces unless you roughed them up a bit. Very handy stuff.
However there's no way to get it under my headliner in the rear of the truck cab. I might be able to shave some of that fuzzy stuff off if I could find a wrecked 2001 Tacoma or use a real sharp chisel to peel back some of the cloth, and use it by mixing with some kind of glue and use it to cover up a messed up small area, but that would be a royal PITA. The reason my truck is like this might have something to do with it being the Deluxe model with a sunroof, which I wish it didn't have.

 

[Lola]

I'm not sure how to interpret that comment. Just to clarify, those images were all taken with the same camera (Canon P&S, not a dash cam) moved to the various locations described. I did it to try to understand how the camera position affected reflections.

To expand a bit, at the time I had the GC mounted on the underside of the sensor housing (as seen in the first picture). Since then I've mounted it on the windshield and, without a CPL, there is a slight increase in reflections due to the lens being closer to the glass. A minor increase because of the small difference in distance but it's there if you look for it.

I'm not sure how to interpret that comment. Just to clarify, those images were all taken with the same camera (Canon P&S, not a dash cam) moved to the various locations described. I did it to try to understand how the camera position affected reflections.

To expand a bit, at the time I had the GC mounted on the underside of the sensor housing (as seen in the first picture). Since then I've mounted it on the windshield and, without a CPL, there is a slight increase in reflections due to the lens being closer to the glass. A minor increase because of the small difference in distance but it's there if you look for it.

I thought you meant the pictures were taken from the same position mounted with the same view of the parking lot with different cameras. Evidently you mean the vehicle (dash and parking lot) was the object you took pictures of by moving from X distance from the windshield to getting very close to the windshield.

In the later case I see your point, why did the reflections become more pronounced as you/P&S got closer to the window, good question, I haven't the slightest idea. Dashmellow is the photographer maybe he can shed some light on this. It would really be interesting to find out!

Sorry for my confusion!

 

[DT MI]

...Evidently you mean the vehicle (dash and parking lot) was the object you took pictures of by moving from X distance from the windshield to getting very close to the windshield....

That is what I did.