Accepting responsibility for a crash... discuss!

[DashcamDPR]

It's always advised here that you never admit liability for a crash. Let the insurers investigate it. But I wanna know exactly why, and whether you think at any point you should just man up and accept it no matter what your insurer advises?

I noticed a car belonging to someone I know of (I don't know them on a personal level) with heavy damage to the rear quarter, and it seems someone else I know of (also not on a personal level) failed to stop at a junction and crashed straight into her (I'm not a witness). He got out of his car and was extremely apologetic at the time, they swapped details and off they went. I then found out a few days later he's denying being at fault and I expect it's on the advice for his insurer.

Am I the only one who finds it literally offensive that people won't accept responsibility for their actions when they're unquestionably at fault?

For the innocent driver, it's so much more stressful and inconvenient. (No dashcams were present apparently)

 

[kamkar]

Well i wouldn't mine admitting if i get caught out like in a crash, as a super elite driver according to insurance companies i can crash my car 2 times within a year before that make any change to what i have to pay.
Beside if you cant acknowledge when you have done wrong you are a animal, its little things like that, that set us apart from our monkey forefathers.
I think its pretty simple, so you made a mistake, learn from it and move on.

But i would never tell anybody i have a dashcam, unless its someone else crash and i just turn in evidence so the right party can get to pay.

 

[DT MI]

IMO the practice is partially due to the insurance companies either recommending or requiring you not admit fault. (This gives the impression that) If you do they may have a case for denying payment (full or partial) for damages. (The other reason being many people are just turds in disguise.)

Edit: Added the phrase "(This gives the impression that)" to clarify my meaning.

 

[country_hick]

IMO the practice is partially due to the insurance companies either recommending or requiring you not admit fault. If you do they may have a case for denying payment (full or partial) for damages.

What evidence do you have insurance companies will deny payment if fault is admitted?
I know insurance companies are bad but this is over the top.

 

[DT MI]

What evidence do you have insurance companies will deny payment if fault is admitted?
I know insurance companies are bad but this is over the top.

"they may have a case for denying payment (full or partial) for damages"

I never said they did or will. I've never had an insurance company yet that said if I was at fault to go ahead and admit it. Every one as said 'Do Not Admit Fault' in the event of an accident. This creates FUD (Fear, Uncertainty and Doubt) in the mind of the policy holder so naturally they will deny responsibility.

Same tactic was used by IBM marketing in the past - 'Nobody ever got fired for buying IBM equipment'. I know because I was there.

 

[sludgeguts]

I always advise cam users to never admit to having a cam.
Liability, however, is a different matter. You often find the one at fault (the other guy) is a complete moron who will be out of their car in a heartbeat & often ranting on about how you did this and that & didn't you see the unicorn eating fairy dust blah, blah, blah.
I always advise you to stay calm & even try to be a bit of an underdog whilst chanting the mantra "let our insurance deal with it".
"Oh, I'm really sorry, I didn't see xxx, I didn't realise xxx, don't worry, our insurance will deal with it" Switch off the engine (stall it if your cam needs power) as well as your radio. Open both front windows & try to make sure the idiot stands in front/just to the side (you know where your cam will see them) so any ranting can be picked up. Your apologetic voice, however, will be calm & soft so harder to pick up.
Of course, they will believe all the lies they told you and, in the course of driving home, will be visualising additional lies - the icing / frosting on the cake.
And when you eventually present your video clip, along with extra pics plus a slo-mo run through pointing out all their errors and every street sign & road marking, your insurance will think this was a completely different event as it will bear little resemblance to the story their insurance has been told & passed to your insurance.
Of course, your insurance will have no choice but to believe everything your dashcam tells them.

 

[boilers]

I try to admit my mistakes, which are plenty/daily, in life.

 

[DashcamDPR]

I crashed back in 2005, minor and low speed, ran into the back of someone who had stopped because I was too busy looking at a parked car that was for sale, so blatantly my fault. I told my insurer this and they said "you shouldn't have admitted liability" and I ended up arguing with him about people not accepting responsibility when it's crystal clear who's wrong.

I paid for my insurance, to cover myself and any victims, and as far as I'm concerned they have to make right what I did wrong since that's effectively what I've paid for!

I would never tell someone I have dashcams if I'm in any future collisions/scam attempts AND.... thinking about it, if I was a witness to a collision I'd give my details to both/all parties, but still not mention I have cams

 

[kamkar]

I think i would just pic a winner as i saw the crash, and then give him / her my email so they can get the footage.

Funny the company would say "you shouldn't have admitted liability" almost sound like they would want you to lie, and that cant be true,,,, at least i hope not.

But some times you just got to throw in the towel and shrug the shoulders just like i did a couple of Days ago talking to Danish postal about a parcel of mine slow to get out of customs and into my hands.
I told the lady on the phone how it use to be getting parcels like so and so, and she said "you must have been lucky then", so i put on my WTF face but dident bother with telling her to listen to me having said "how it use to be", and i have actually gotten the past 20 parcels or so with that timing, so clearly what i have been used to is not being lucky.

 

[kuoh]

When I reversed into an unoccupied parked van back in my much younger days, I found the owner, gave her my info and admitted it was my fault for not looking. I explained it to the insurance agent, who also lectured me about not admitting fault, saying they could've been parked illegally. They weren't, it was an entire row of marked spaces and the owner actually purposely parked in that area because it was normally empty, hence my inattention when backing out in a hurry. I was still on mom & dad's American Family policy when the incident happened. In the end, the insurance company did pay, minus the deductibles for both sides, but I was no longer able to obtain insurance on my own through them. I don't recall if they just jacked the rates sky high or if they outright rejected coverage. I can't prove they will deny payment if fault is admitted, but I can definitely provide an example that they will negatively affect you much more than if you didn't.

KuoH

What evidence do you have insurance companies will deny payment if fault is admitted?
I know insurance companies are bad but this is over the top.

 

[Rajagra]

What evidence do you have insurance companies will deny payment if fault is admitted?

That is commonly claimed (here in the UK), and there is a logic to it that is credible. Insurance companies have a right to defend their side of a case, and you admitting fault will sabotage that.
If there is even a possibility that admitting fault will prevent a payout - to the innocent party - then why take the risk?
Mumble a generic "sorry" fill in the forms honestly, and let the insurance company(s) and lawyers sort it out.

 

[DashcamDPR]

That is commonly claimed (here in the UK), and there is a logic to it that is credible. Insurance companies have a right to defend their side of a case, and you admitting fault will sabotage that.
If there is even a possibility that admitting fault will prevent a payout - to the innocent party - then why take the risk?
Mumble a generic "sorry" fill in the forms honestly, and let the insurance company(s) and lawyers sort it out.

That's just it, they accept the risk by taking our money, and they value that risk on the amount of money they decide to take off us. If our premiums reflect the statistics of drivers and they feel that what may as well be an inevitable claim for a new driver is a risk, it's their own fault for not charging enough! Maybe it sucks for my insurer at the time that I admitted liability, but they'd taken £1500 off me just for the cost of the insurance, before the claim was made and I'm not gonna feel guilty about admitting liability, I'd have been found at fault anyway and the outcome would have been the same.

They make BILLIONS per year from people who never crash, my current insurer has had thousands off me for a number of years now and I've never had a bump since 2005, free money to them

 

[Kip]

I think if I were involved in a crash, I'd always just leave it up to the insurers to decide. Even if I thought it was obviously my fault at the scene, I'd still want to review my footage anyway just to double check everyone and everything going on. There's no use admitting liability on scene and then later seeing things in the video that sway fault to the other party. Better to say nothing than to admit liability. If it's obviously one parties fault, the insurance companies should be able to work that out fairly easily. Either way I'd send the video footage in, that way nobody can exaggerate anything.

 

[DashcamDPR]

I think if I were involved in a crash, I'd always just leave it up to the insurers to decide. Even if I thought it was obviously my fault at the scene, I'd still want to review my footage anyway just to double check everyone and everything going on. There's no use admitting liability on scene and then later seeing things in the video that sway fault to the other party. Better to say nothing than to admit liability. If it's obviously one parties fault, the insurance companies should be able to work that out fairly easily. Either way I'd send the video footage in, that way nobody can exaggerate anything.

I'd always send in the footage where required, I'd just not tell anyone at the time that I have cams if they don't ask. Dashcams obviously make the whole scenario so much easier but my reason for posting in the off-topic section was because I wondered why insurers ask that you don't admit fault, dashcam or not.

 

[Rajagra]

That's just it, they accept the risk by taking our money

And we accept their terms and conditions. If they instruct you not to admit blame, but you do so, you are in breach of contract and possibly hand them a get-out.

The point is, if an innocent party is badly injured and needs millions in medical care every year for the rest of their life, how would you feel if you handed the insurance company a way to get out of paying? Could you pay such costs out of your own pocket? If you think this is far fetched you are wrong. Just look at some of the downright evil things that go on with healthcare insurance.

Sent from my SM-G903F using Tapatalk

 

[DashcamDPR]

No, I really don't think that's far fetched, I see where you're coming from...

And we accept their terms and conditions

I'm fairly certain it isn't in the terms and conditions, its given as advice... BUT... if it is stated in anyone's t&c's, I'd love to know

 

[DashcamDPR]

I think its safe to say, admit nothing, deny nothing, swap details and leave!

 

[SawMaster]

No, I really don't think that's far fetched, I see where you're coming from...
I'm fairly certain it isn't in the terms and conditions, its given as advice... BUT... if it is stated in anyone's t&c's, I'd love to know

It IS in the T&C with my insurer as well as being printed on large bold letters on the card. I'm not allowed to discuss an incident with anyone other than them period, and that includes the Police I've read my policy and recommend that everyone do this. I've had several insurers and policies ranging from understandable to those which require many hours and a legal dictionary to understand. What you discover may surprise you......

My previous insurer had a waiver for trailers which I found odd as most will cover at least some liability for a small utility trailer in casual infrequent usage. They would not pay in any event where a trailer I was using played any contributory role or was directly involved. If an insured trailer was being used, they would pay only any amount over the maximum coverage on the trailer that was within my own policy limits even if the trailer was not involved and the trailer insurer paid nothing! And they don't offer trailer policies. So If I pulled a trailer, insured or not, I was effectively waiving my whole car insurance policy I'd never seen anything like that in reading at least a dozen policies through the years My current insurer is more the norm and will cover property damage liability on casual small trailer use

Your policy is a contract to which you must abide so know what it says and do it

Phil

 

[RCPilot]

From someone with many years of insurance litigation experience, you should not admit to fault because you are probably not an expert on the vehicle code and tort law. Most states in USA go by comparative negligence. That means you may only be partially at fault for an accident and only responsible for a certain percentage of the damages. You also don't know the extent of the claim that may be presented against you. While the conclusions of fault on a police report are usually not admissible as evidence, the statements you make to the officer at the scene are.

There are many ways you can get in trouble admitting fault as the scene to the other party or to the police officer. You may create a situation where it will be more difficult to defend you in a trial, etc. Depending on the amount of coverage you have, it could result in the difference of an award within your limits of coverage or in excess of your coverage where now you have to pay out of pocket above and beyond what your insurance company pays out. Regardless of how minor the accident, you don't know how big of an injury claim may be made against you, whether real or fraudulent. The other party could also be an "eggshell" plaintiff and sustain serious injuries or exacerbation of preexisting conditions from the small accident.

Because of the vast number of variables involved in determining the value of the claim against you, you should not do anything but exchange information with the other party and say that you will report the accident right away to your insurance company so they can handle the claim. Do not admit fault to the other driver or the police. Simple tell the officer how the accident happened. This does not mean you should lie to anyone. If you lie to your insurance company you are screwing over the other party. If you know your light was red when you entered the intersection, don't say it was yellow. That makes the difference between the other person being paid for their claim or having their claim denied. You want to be honest with your insurance company. It is their job to then evaluate the claim and protect your assets to the best of their ability within the amount of coverage available.

The best thing you can do to also protect yourself is to make sure you have plenty of coverage so if you do cause a moderator or serious accident, there is enough coverage so it is not worth the time for the plaintiff to try to go after your personal assets. For example, if you own a house worth $700,000 and you have $400,000 in equity in it, and you only have $50,000 in liability coverage, good luck if you cause any moderate injury to anyone where you are at fault or partially at fault. The ER hospital bill alone can be $50,000 for two days in the trauma unit. Even if the injuries are not too bad and the person has a claim that is worth say $150,000 the plaintiff is not going to accept only $50,000 from your insurance company to settle the claim. You better be prepared to take out a loan or cough up $100K out of your pocket. So get enough coverage to protect you for more than you are worth. You may be surprised how little more you have to pay to increase your liability cover by a lot.

 

[boilers]

How about this. My daughter just totaled my car during a teen driving safety course. Following instructions of the driver instructor, she made contact with a curb. On a wet/dry skid pad they had set up close enough to the a landscape/parking curb, that she made contact and the car was determined to be not worth repairing to driving condition. I have two in-car videos of the event. The instructor told her to give it more gas, then bam!