Mobius Maxi F1.5 2.7k
- Thread starter TonyM
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Paul Blart
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Just arrived today, looking forward to trying the lens extension. Does anyone have a video for the Maxi or will I have to follow one of the many original mobius videos?
Will have to do a test drive in the day to check for lens focus before I start messing with that though.
Will have to do a test drive in the day to check for lens focus before I start messing with that though.
OP
OP
TonyM
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I've not seen any videos for a lens extension on the Maxi. The Mobius 1 videos should be pretty much the same.
c4rc4m
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Interesting lens I came across doing a bit of research. No cheap at $50, but could be a lot worse:
http://optitrack.com/products/m12-lenses/
LENS0003
1/3
Interesting Specs as it offers f1.6 @ 4.5mm whilst giving a telephoto 46 degree view. The 3.5mm version offers similar specs but 58 degree view.
Distortion on 4.5mm is a claimed 1.9% and on the 3.5 a claimed 2.9%, both excellent.
Wondering if these could be the answer to a low light telephoto lens for number plate reading?
4.5mm Tech Specs:
4.5mm F#1.6 Lens - 1/3" - M12$50
Part number: LENS0003
This M12 lens offers an ideal balance of FOV and tracking resolution for most full body motion capture and rigid body tracking applications.
TECH SPECS
Horizontal FOV 46°
Vertical FOV 35°
Focal Length 4.5 mm
F-number 1.6
Format 1/3″ Image
Circle Distortion 1.9%
http://optitrack.com/products/m12-lenses/
LENS0003
1/3
Interesting Specs as it offers f1.6 @ 4.5mm whilst giving a telephoto 46 degree view. The 3.5mm version offers similar specs but 58 degree view.
Distortion on 4.5mm is a claimed 1.9% and on the 3.5 a claimed 2.9%, both excellent.
Wondering if these could be the answer to a low light telephoto lens for number plate reading?
4.5mm Tech Specs:
4.5mm F#1.6 Lens - 1/3" - M12$50
Part number: LENS0003
This M12 lens offers an ideal balance of FOV and tracking resolution for most full body motion capture and rigid body tracking applications.
TECH SPECS
Horizontal FOV 46°
Vertical FOV 35°
Focal Length 4.5 mm
F-number 1.6
Format 1/3″ Image
Circle Distortion 1.9%
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Their cameras start at $1000 so I guess a $50 lens is not exorbitant by comparison
dirkzelf
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dirkzelf
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Yeah, I like them too.....and there are more....
I have +/- 60 more but I can only upload 10......
c4rc4m
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OK smileys over. Does anyone fancy trying this out?
(Before anyone suggests me, I don't currently have a Maxi nor can I afford to play around with lenses on my income unfortunately. So I'll have to leave it someone in a better position to do that).
kamkar
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I have pretty much robber all the little old ladies around here, so i cant afford it either, but they do look tempting.
Maybe when i an in a place where i would have to consider my dreams about a lesser FOV rear camera.
Maybe when i an in a place where i would have to consider my dreams about a lesser FOV rear camera.
Dashmellow
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@c4rc4m, I really had no intention of initiating any further interaction with you for the time being until I saw that you were encouraging other folks to invest their hard earned money in an expensive but entirely inappropriate lens for the Mobius Maxi that you yourself are unwilling or, as you claim, unable to purchase. Apparently, you have become so lost in this odd high end, low distortion, vicarious lens fantasy of yours that you don't even know what it is you are recommending!
Really, c4rc4m, just what is this low distortion fetish all about? I don't quite get it. Obviously, most of us wouldn't want to be looking at extreme fish-eye (or telephoto pincushion) distorted imagery from our dash cams, but there is absolutely no reason for the level of distortion correction you keep pounding the table about. On a dash cam the kind of distortion correction you espouse serves no practical purpose whatsoever other than some sort of aesthetic conceit and the cost equation to achieve it doesn't make sense. A reasonable and respectable level of distortion control for dash cams makes sense but such highly corrected low distortion lenses such as you keep advocating for are really meant to serve a different and specific purpose. Low distortion lenses are used by professional cinematographers for cinematic and broadcast work and for technical, analytical purposes as in this particular lens you want people other than you to waste their money on.
Anyway, this particular 4.5mm ƒ1.6 lens you are touting is one of line of proprietary lenses designed by OptiTrack specifically for their own brand of machine vision technical cameras which are used exclusively for motion tracking, robotics, VR and animation, not dash cams or other typical video work. As technical cameras designed for making precise measurements they do require very low distortion and perhaps wide apertures but not necessarily high resolution.
“We custom design our own super low distortion, "fast glass" lenses, which include wide band anti-reflective coating for increased light transmission, yielding larger volumes and cleaner data.”
("Larger volumes" as described in the above sentence are enclosed motion capture studios with bigger interior spaces.)
For the lens you are recommending here Opitrack states that it is compatible with only two of the eight unique proprietary cameras they offer, the Flex 3 and the Slim 3U, both of which have a native resolutions of only 640 x 480 pixels!! (.3 Megapixels) Most of the cameras they offer have native resolutions of 1280 × 1024 or less, with the exception of their most recently introduced more advanced models costing thousands of dollars each. So, the lens you're recommending would never have anywhere near the resolving power to match the 2.7K resolution requirements of the Mobius Maxi.
M12 lenses, originally designated “S Mount” have been around since long before dash cams and action cams came into existence. Early on they were used for primitive machine vision (counting manufacturing parts coming down a conveyer belt, for example) and optical performance was not of great concern. Later they began to be incorporated into CCTV cameras. More recently increasingly higher quality M12 lenses have been introduced as sensor quality has improved and the miniature camera industry has flourished. There are many different types of S mount lenses made for a wide range of tasks but these lenses have to be carefully matched in optical performance and lens dimensions to suit the particular camera they will be installed in.
Those of us here on DCT who have devoted a lot of time and effort engaging in actual HANDS ON experience with aftermarket M12 lenses have learned to evaluate the appropriate specifications when we purchase lenses. We look at BFL (back focal length) MBF (mechanical back focus), sometimes FFL (flange focal length.......as with the M12 varifocals) and other significant specifications such as resolving power (Megapixels), Of course, a key consideration in choosing a lens are the actual dimensions of the lens, such as width and barrel length before we make a purchase.
If you go on AliExpress and look at some of the lens offerings you'll see that most vendors not only provide all the necessary information required to make a purchasing decision for your specific needs but that a very helpful technical drawing with all the precise dimensions of the lens is usually on display.
By comparison, Optitrack provides none of this information other than the basics such as focal length, aperture, FOV image circle and distortion (because that's important here). They don't provide the lens' resolving power or other key data we look for when purchasing aftermarket lenses. They don't need to offer these specs because their proprietary lens are made to fit their proprietary cameras. So, among other potential problems, there is a fairly good chance that this 4.5mm ƒ1.6 lens you are so excited about may not even even fit the Mobius Maxi case.
Trial and error often plays a huge role when experimenting with M12 lenses. Sometime things work great, sometimes not so much. Sometimes you just get lucky, sometimes not so much.
This happened to me just within the last week. I recently purchased a brand new Mobius 1 (V3) from Eletoponline365 with an A2 lens module installed. After it arrived I decided it might be interesting to revisit the older Mobius “C” lens optic which I've always kind of liked even though it was taken out of production and replaced with the C2 lens after the lens modules that shipped with the C lens had a heat warping problem with the sensor backing plate. So, I unscrewed the A2 lens from its module and replaced it with the C lens. Then, much to my surprise I could not quite screw the case closed all the way because it turns out that part of the old C lens barrel is too wide to fit the new version of the Mobius camera housing! While it is widely known that when the C2 lens module was introduced the Mobius case was modified to only accept the new wider module design. What is not so well known (at least I was unaware), that's not all that has changed. Who would have expected that an original optic that once shipped with the M1 would no longer fit inside the housing of the newer M1 because the barrel is too fat?
@Harsh had a similar but different experience recently. He tried to install an aftermarket telephoto in his A129 but it wouldn't work because the MBF requirement was too long. As he described it, “A129 telephoto experiment didn't work, extension rings turned out to be useless. Need the lens to sit a few millimetres lower than the last point on the extension ring.”
This is what happens with trial and error and it's how we all learn about this stuff. This is how all of us on DCT who have been experimenting with alternative dash cam lenses for several years now have learned what to look for when we evaluate M12 lenses for purchase. And apart from the final results we achieve this is a good part of why we have so much fun exploring these things, even when things don't work as hoped.
@ c4rc4m, you obviously are fascinated by this subject but in my view it's not good enough to be just an armchair pundit, especially when you decide to make recommendations or tell other people how this all works. As you know, some folks, especially me in recent interactions don't take too kindly to such things as when you take it upon yourself to repeatedly lecture us on how to focus specialty lenses like the varifocals which in my case I've been experimenting with for and exploring for a year now when you have literally no experience with focusing or using these or any other aftermarket lenses whatsoever.
So, I have a suggestion. Even if you feel you can't afford it right now, since these optics are something that interests you so much, why not start putting away a little money every week or whatever until you can buy a suitable camera like a Mobius and a high end lens of your choice to install in it for starters? You'll have a blast with it and learn a lot. And then, eventually you'll graduate to a new lens that you may be passionate about. Maybe drop a few hints to loved ones around Christmas time? Maybe even start a Patreon or GoFundMe campaign with a modest price goal? If what you say is true, that you have no money to indulge your passion to explore higher end optics, I'll bet members here who know you might even help you out!
One way or another my friend, you should try to find a way to walk your talk even if it takes some time to get there. Then, post and talk about your results! We would all love to see what you have to show and share.
P.S. Oh, BTW, after you spent 5 days last week insisting that IR strobe can't work for one reason or another after I suggested that I might like to try some casual experiments with some IR flash units I own, I was rather amused to discover that these Opitrack cameras are capable of doing just that! They do IR strobe video and stills! ...and standard daylight flash video and stills as well. In this case it is in the service of motion tracking. So, thanks for informing me about a line of cameras that can do IR strobe video! Oh, the irony!
Really, c4rc4m, just what is this low distortion fetish all about? I don't quite get it. Obviously, most of us wouldn't want to be looking at extreme fish-eye (or telephoto pincushion) distorted imagery from our dash cams, but there is absolutely no reason for the level of distortion correction you keep pounding the table about. On a dash cam the kind of distortion correction you espouse serves no practical purpose whatsoever other than some sort of aesthetic conceit and the cost equation to achieve it doesn't make sense. A reasonable and respectable level of distortion control for dash cams makes sense but such highly corrected low distortion lenses such as you keep advocating for are really meant to serve a different and specific purpose. Low distortion lenses are used by professional cinematographers for cinematic and broadcast work and for technical, analytical purposes as in this particular lens you want people other than you to waste their money on.
Anyway, this particular 4.5mm ƒ1.6 lens you are touting is one of line of proprietary lenses designed by OptiTrack specifically for their own brand of machine vision technical cameras which are used exclusively for motion tracking, robotics, VR and animation, not dash cams or other typical video work. As technical cameras designed for making precise measurements they do require very low distortion and perhaps wide apertures but not necessarily high resolution.
“We custom design our own super low distortion, "fast glass" lenses, which include wide band anti-reflective coating for increased light transmission, yielding larger volumes and cleaner data.”
("Larger volumes" as described in the above sentence are enclosed motion capture studios with bigger interior spaces.)
For the lens you are recommending here Opitrack states that it is compatible with only two of the eight unique proprietary cameras they offer, the Flex 3 and the Slim 3U, both of which have a native resolutions of only 640 x 480 pixels!! (.3 Megapixels) Most of the cameras they offer have native resolutions of 1280 × 1024 or less, with the exception of their most recently introduced more advanced models costing thousands of dollars each. So, the lens you're recommending would never have anywhere near the resolving power to match the 2.7K resolution requirements of the Mobius Maxi.
M12 lenses, originally designated “S Mount” have been around since long before dash cams and action cams came into existence. Early on they were used for primitive machine vision (counting manufacturing parts coming down a conveyer belt, for example) and optical performance was not of great concern. Later they began to be incorporated into CCTV cameras. More recently increasingly higher quality M12 lenses have been introduced as sensor quality has improved and the miniature camera industry has flourished. There are many different types of S mount lenses made for a wide range of tasks but these lenses have to be carefully matched in optical performance and lens dimensions to suit the particular camera they will be installed in.
Those of us here on DCT who have devoted a lot of time and effort engaging in actual HANDS ON experience with aftermarket M12 lenses have learned to evaluate the appropriate specifications when we purchase lenses. We look at BFL (back focal length) MBF (mechanical back focus), sometimes FFL (flange focal length.......as with the M12 varifocals) and other significant specifications such as resolving power (Megapixels), Of course, a key consideration in choosing a lens are the actual dimensions of the lens, such as width and barrel length before we make a purchase.
If you go on AliExpress and look at some of the lens offerings you'll see that most vendors not only provide all the necessary information required to make a purchasing decision for your specific needs but that a very helpful technical drawing with all the precise dimensions of the lens is usually on display.
By comparison, Optitrack provides none of this information other than the basics such as focal length, aperture, FOV image circle and distortion (because that's important here). They don't provide the lens' resolving power or other key data we look for when purchasing aftermarket lenses. They don't need to offer these specs because their proprietary lens are made to fit their proprietary cameras. So, among other potential problems, there is a fairly good chance that this 4.5mm ƒ1.6 lens you are so excited about may not even even fit the Mobius Maxi case.
Trial and error often plays a huge role when experimenting with M12 lenses. Sometime things work great, sometimes not so much. Sometimes you just get lucky, sometimes not so much.
This happened to me just within the last week. I recently purchased a brand new Mobius 1 (V3) from Eletoponline365 with an A2 lens module installed. After it arrived I decided it might be interesting to revisit the older Mobius “C” lens optic which I've always kind of liked even though it was taken out of production and replaced with the C2 lens after the lens modules that shipped with the C lens had a heat warping problem with the sensor backing plate. So, I unscrewed the A2 lens from its module and replaced it with the C lens. Then, much to my surprise I could not quite screw the case closed all the way because it turns out that part of the old C lens barrel is too wide to fit the new version of the Mobius camera housing! While it is widely known that when the C2 lens module was introduced the Mobius case was modified to only accept the new wider module design. What is not so well known (at least I was unaware), that's not all that has changed. Who would have expected that an original optic that once shipped with the M1 would no longer fit inside the housing of the newer M1 because the barrel is too fat?
@Harsh had a similar but different experience recently. He tried to install an aftermarket telephoto in his A129 but it wouldn't work because the MBF requirement was too long. As he described it, “A129 telephoto experiment didn't work, extension rings turned out to be useless. Need the lens to sit a few millimetres lower than the last point on the extension ring.”
This is what happens with trial and error and it's how we all learn about this stuff. This is how all of us on DCT who have been experimenting with alternative dash cam lenses for several years now have learned what to look for when we evaluate M12 lenses for purchase. And apart from the final results we achieve this is a good part of why we have so much fun exploring these things, even when things don't work as hoped.
@ c4rc4m, you obviously are fascinated by this subject but in my view it's not good enough to be just an armchair pundit, especially when you decide to make recommendations or tell other people how this all works. As you know, some folks, especially me in recent interactions don't take too kindly to such things as when you take it upon yourself to repeatedly lecture us on how to focus specialty lenses like the varifocals which in my case I've been experimenting with for and exploring for a year now when you have literally no experience with focusing or using these or any other aftermarket lenses whatsoever.
So, I have a suggestion. Even if you feel you can't afford it right now, since these optics are something that interests you so much, why not start putting away a little money every week or whatever until you can buy a suitable camera like a Mobius and a high end lens of your choice to install in it for starters? You'll have a blast with it and learn a lot. And then, eventually you'll graduate to a new lens that you may be passionate about. Maybe drop a few hints to loved ones around Christmas time? Maybe even start a Patreon or GoFundMe campaign with a modest price goal? If what you say is true, that you have no money to indulge your passion to explore higher end optics, I'll bet members here who know you might even help you out!
One way or another my friend, you should try to find a way to walk your talk even if it takes some time to get there. Then, post and talk about your results! We would all love to see what you have to show and share.
P.S. Oh, BTW, after you spent 5 days last week insisting that IR strobe can't work for one reason or another after I suggested that I might like to try some casual experiments with some IR flash units I own, I was rather amused to discover that these Opitrack cameras are capable of doing just that! They do IR strobe video and stills! ...and standard daylight flash video and stills as well. In this case it is in the service of motion tracking. So, thanks for informing me about a line of cameras that can do IR strobe video! Oh, the irony!
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