COVID-19 Coronavirus Thread

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Here i am actually obliged to report my CCTV cameras so "the man" know where to go for footage, but i have not done that.
If "the man" want access at his leasure to my cameras in the car, he will have to steal my car.
 
Here they dont want digital access to peoples NVR / DVR ( yet ) , but they do want the right to come and look in the footage if something have gone down in the neighborhood.
And i recon they are tired of having to send a guy walking up and down streets where a crime have happened to spot cameras and ask for permission to see the footage, so with a database of all cameras it is more easy to find cameras that might have something of interest to a criminal case.
The cameras in the car, while i assume they too are surveillance if you have to put them in a existing category of cameras, then it is random as it is a camera "running" around, so what it capture will also be random, and so not really of interest unless of course it is the owner of the car / camera they are going after, and then they are probably mostly interested in what the microphone have recorded, as your whereabouts they probably already have.
 
The cameras in the car, while i assume they too are surveillance if you have to put them in a existing category of cameras, then it is random as it is a camera "running" around, so what it capture will also be random, and so not really of interest unless of course it is the owner of the car / camera they are going after, and then they are probably mostly interested in what the microphone have recorded, as your whereabouts they probably already have.
That can be solved ... the dash cameras need a covid-19 style tracking app embedded!

UK police can already do it though, they just need one ANPR camera somewhere in the street/road that is recording plates, or some dashcam/CCTV footage containing plates that were on the street at the time, and they can email everyone who may have footage to ask, doesn't matter if they have a camera or not, since they may still have something in their human memory.
 
You manufacture cameras, are you suggesting that we should all remove our surveillance cameras from our cars?

Personal, individual sousveillance from our automobiles is vastly different than ubiquitous mass surveillance conducted by governments on entire populations of its citizens.

Of course, Nigel, you are well aware of that distinction but as always, you'd rather play coy, disingenuous games in order to dodge the obvious sour truths about the UK.
 
A Danish activist ( former cop ) are going to jail, for among other things inciting people to destroy ANPG cameras.

TBH i would rather forgo solving the few crimes ANPG cameras could be part of solving VS the way it could be misused with just a ever so slight change in the law.
In my opinion it is imperative that politicians have as little power as possible, in Denmark i feel they have way too much power, i pretty much feel like their little ( name for female dog ) most of the time.

I am okay with the ANPG cameras on cop cars, it is a good tool for catching people already in their register, even if those cars could probably easy be modified to log and store every single plate they pass buy as they drive along.
 
I am suspicious of any system which monitors the general public, as they can all be abused. Many people say "If you're doing nothing wrong, then why does it matter?" to which I counter "Then why do they need to monitor me when I'm doing no wrong?" Quite simply they don't, nor should they be allowed to. They have no need to know anything about me or what I do until I do something wrong :cautious:

Governments who monitor the public's actions expose their distrust of their citizenry, a mindset which indicates that they themselves are probably not trustworthy and they know it; otherwise that thought would not have likely entered their minds. If their monitoring is as benevolent and benign as they'd have you believe, then why don't they allow everyone access to their systems so that we can monitor them with it? Ah, now the truth emerges: They don't want you watching them because they are doing wrong and they don't want you to catch them doing it! :eek:

Here in the US we have a distrust of our Government and it's always been that way for good reason. From the very start every Government we've had has not been benign or benevolent to us, but has tried to curtail our freedoms, over-regulate, and overtax us :mad: Every government everywhere wants to control it's citizenry, and when allowed to exert too much control has always proven to be detrimental to it's citizenry. Few people in the US realize how deeply we're being monitored today as most of that is done covertly, and not overtly as is being done elsewhere. The ways they use to do this are through things touted as being beneficial to us or through means which appear to be benign. It's impossible to escape this completely but there are ways to minimize it, and that is the approach I choose.

A method of tracking Covid-19 cases would be beneficial to both governments and citizens, allowing a better government response to the pandemic and allowing individuals to better avoid contact with those who have the disease. But I am still against this because neither governments or private entities have proven to be trustworthy with information they gather about us- it will not be deleted after this is over or used only for this purpose. It will be used for marketing, sold to someone else, or covertly collected for some later use which may or not be apparent to us today. It is a matter of trust, and I do not trust them because they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy, so until that changes (which history says it won't) I cannot support such an effort.

Phil
 


This is a sticky question. Police could use a Helicopter to spot the man, but of course that's less stealthy. I don't see the drone being termed illegal since it wouldn't be any different than a bomb defusing robot with a camera.
 
You manufacture cameras, are you suggesting that we should all remove our surveillance cameras from our cars?

Dash Cameras don't have license plate and facial recognition technology. So you're argument isn't an apples to apples comparison.
 
how did you spin it around into that, even for you that's a stretch

Manufacturing cameras has nothing to do with a "Police / Nanny State" installing facial and license plate recognition software. Definitely a stretch on his part.
 
This is a sticky question. Police could use a Helicopter to spot the man, but of course that's less stealthy. I don't see the drone being termed illegal since it wouldn't be any different than a bomb defusing robot with a camera.
You can say the same of any surveillance camera. UK doesn't have enough cops to replace all the cameras, but that is partly because we have the cameras, and partly because the cameras let us be more thorough.

Generally I prefer the cameras, they are cheaper, more reliable, make less mistakes, provide better coverage, don't get tired, don't have targets that result in them creating evidence, etc. etc.

Dash Cameras don't have license plate and facial recognition technology. So you're argument isn't an apples to apples comparison.
That is not entirely true. If I got an email from the police asking for dashcam video from my trip along x road yesterday, I could send them the video, they could put it though their number plate recognition software, and generate a whole list of vehicles to check out for the incident they are investigating. They don't need me to have seen the incident, they may know that I had already passed before it happened, but a list of plate numbers could be crucial to finding the culprit. Each one that had a dashcam allows a further list to be generated with timing info etc., so they can work out exactly how fast someone was traveling along each part of the road, how many people they overtook, at what point they turned onto the road, where they escaped to, etc. etc. Doesn't have to be for a driving incident, works for any incident where info on movements and timing is useful evidence.

Army of cameras like in UK, or armies of "police" like in the USA today:
Screen_Shot_2020-06-03_at_12.21.45_PM.png

 
Don't forget, modern authoritarian style government CCTV surveillance systems not only use face recognition and ANPG, they are also now introducing "gait recognition" and other AI capabilities along with other technologies that include "signals interception" and location and other types of tracking of individual cell phones and other devices. And all of it is connected to massive zettabyte and yottabyte level databases.

"Gait Recognition Tracking" camera surveillance technology is able to identify people using only their silhouettes and how they walk, even if their faces are not visible and it can identify people as far as 50 meters away.

Other technologies are in development such as laser detection of your individual heartbeat and microbiome.

New surveillance tech means you'll never be anonymous again

Brave New World indeed!
 
I am suspicious of any system which monitors the general public, as they can all be abused. Many people say "If you're doing nothing wrong, then why does it matter?" to which I counter "Then why do they need to monitor me when I'm doing no wrong?" Quite simply they don't, nor should they be allowed to. They have no need to know anything about me or what I do until I do something wrong :cautious:

Wikileaks released an article a few years ago how the CIA hacked Samsung T.V.s and turned them into listening devices: https://www.forbes.com/sites/thomas...-samsung-smart-tv-hack-security/#14ca37d84bcd

The same thing was down to enable a cell phone to record audio.

People who say I am doing no wrong fail to grasp they may one day run afoul of someone who uses these technologies to their advantage. What would stop a hacker or someone with a vendetta from gathering dirt. Everyone has some skeleton in their closet.

Americans as a whole are too stupid and too lazy to be outraged at the loss of liberties. Look at the "Un"Patriot Act. Less than 1/3rd even bother to get out and vote. So their voices aren't heard and their discontent known. Once liberties are lost, the chances of regaining them are next to none. And within short time, once a power grab has been made, those in charge will test to waters to see how much further they can get away with. Absolute power corrupts absolutely. Look at Donald Trump.

Governments who monitor the public's actions expose their distrust of their citizenry, a mindset which indicates that they themselves are probably not trustworthy and they know it; otherwise that thought would not have likely entered their minds. If their monitoring is as benevolent and benign as they'd have you believe, then why don't they allow everyone access to their systems so that we can monitor them with it? Ah, now the truth emerges: They don't want you watching them because they are doing wrong and they don't want you to catch them doing it! :eek:


I am of the mindset that ALL POLICE DEPARTMENTS should be mandated to have body cameras activated at ALL TIMES. Attempts to disable the camera is grounds for immediate dismissal. If a complaint is lodged against an officer that turned off his/her camera, then criminal charges are also filed. People want accountability and this is the only way you'll get it.

I disagree about the trust issue. I believe it's more about control. A government that spies on its citizenry believes or attempts to convey belief that such methods are for the good of the people. False security. When in fact, the government cannot read minds, and lone wolves rarely raise flags before a crime is committed. Look at mass shooters, school shooters, etc. No amount of surveillance could prevent these massacres.

Better background checks mental health flags are far better preventatives than spying on everyone as a whole. No amount of benevolence will usurp common sense.

Here in the US we have a distrust of our Government and it's always been that way for good reason. From the very start every Government we've had has not been benign or benevolent to us, but has tried to curtail our freedoms, over-regulate, and overtax us :mad: Every government everywhere wants to control it's citizenry, and when allowed to exert too much control has always proven to be detrimental to it's citizenry. Few people in the US realize how deeply we're being monitored today as most of that is done covertly, and not overtly as is being done elsewhere. The ways they use to do this are through things touted as being beneficial to us or through means which appear to be benign. It's impossible to escape this completely but there are ways to minimize it, and that is the approach I choose.

A method of tracking Covid-19 cases would be beneficial to both governments and citizens, allowing a better government response to the pandemic and allowing individuals to better avoid contact with those who have the disease. But I am still against this because neither governments or private entities have proven to be trustworthy with information they gather about us- it will not be deleted after this is over or used only for this purpose. It will be used for marketing, sold to someone else, or covertly collected for some later use which may or not be apparent to us today. It is a matter of trust, and I do not trust them because they have proven themselves to be untrustworthy, so until that changes (which history says it won't) I cannot support such an effort.

Phil

I disagree. Contact tracing is imperative in a health crisis. Years ago, when HIV/AIDS was a novel condition, there was obviously no testing and it hit the gay community very hard. Along with infecting those receiving blood transfusions. Years down the road, the government advocated that those who had a blood transfusion before 1985 be tested for Aids. Not because the government cared about "punishing people", but to stop an outbreak or people from unknowingly infecting others. Similar to Covid 19.

To build upon that point, there have been people who are KNOWINGLY infecting others with Covid-19, even after being told they were sick. A law was made years ago that punished people who had HIV/AIDS and failed to tell their partners. Criminalizing such at, especially if someone got sick. While I am for as little data as possible being collected by the government, issues of health and public welfare are inherent jobs of the government.

Just as the Police cannot allow rioting and looting to take place, the same can be said for people spreading illness than in turn can bring our country to its knees. Look at Covid. Trump's mishandling crippled the economy for 3 months and the U.S. has over 1/4th of its population unemployed.
 
Brave New World indeed!
Yes, at one time we used to have enough community policemen that they could also recognise people by gaits, especially criminals!
 
You can say the same of any surveillance camera. UK doesn't have enough cops to replace all the cameras, but that is partly because we have the cameras, and partly because the cameras let us be more thorough.

Generally I prefer the cameras, they are cheaper, more reliable, make less mistakes, provide better coverage, don't get tired, don't have targets that result in them creating evidence, etc. etc.


That is not entirely true. If I got an email from the police asking for dashcam video from my trip along x road yesterday, I could send them the video, they could put it though their number plate recognition software, and generate a whole list of vehicles to check out for the incident they are investigating. They don't need me to have seen the incident, they may know that I had already passed before it happened, but a list of plate numbers could be crucial to finding the culprit. Each one that had a dashcam allows a further list to be generated with timing info etc., so they can work out exactly how fast someone was traveling along each part of the road, how many people they overtook, at what point they turned onto the road, where they escaped to, etc. etc. Doesn't have to be for a driving incident, works for any incident where info on movements and timing is useful evidence.

Army of cameras like in UK, or armies of "police" like in the USA today:


Police wouldn't know whether you had a Camera unless mounted on your vehicle AND:

1. You volunteer the video evidence for crime that you witnessed and recorded.

2. You volunteer the information that your camera was function and recording. Just cause you have a camera, doesn't mean it was function or recording.

3. ONE OF police surveillance cameras had high enough resolution to "suspect" you had a camera mounted on your windshield. Using plate recognition to then determine you were in the vicinity of a crime being committed. Very unlikely, and far less unlikely you would say my "camera was recording" unless you felt like being a good samaritan.
 
Yes, at one time we used to have enough community policemen that they could also recognise people by gaits, especially criminals!

Community policing has literally nothing to do with gait tracking and other types of surveillance on a mass scale.

Certainly, your affinity for authoritarian, fascistic, secret police style mass surveillance of civilians would have made the Stasi proud. It's disgusting!
 
Police wouldn't know whether you had a Camera unless mounted on your vehicle unless of course:

1. You volunteer the information that you witnessed and recorded a crime.

2. You volunteer the information that your camera was function and recording.

3. ONE OF police surveillance cameras had high enough resolution to "suspect" you had a camera mounted on your windshield. Using plate recognition to then determine you were in the vicinity of a crime being committed. Very unlikely, and far less unlikely you would say my "camera was recording" unless you felt like being a good samaritan.
There are enough dashcams in UK for it to be worth police politely asking for dashcam evidence from people they know where in the area without needing to know if you do or do not have one, and even if you don't, you may still have seen something useful, you don't need to respond positively if you don't want to. They also fairly regularly ask in the papers/TV news when they don't have much to start from, presumably enough people respond to make it worth while.
 
There are enough dashcams in UK for it to be worth police politely asking for dashcam evidence from people they know where in the area without needing to know if you do or do not have one, and even if you don't, you may still have seen something useful, you don't need to respond positively if you don't want to. They also fairly regularly ask in the papers/TV news when they don't have much to start from, presumably enough people respond to make it worth while.

You would have been a perfect fit in Nazi Germany when the Party induced ordinary people to report their neighbors so they could be shipped off to concentration camps. This also fits with your advocating of killing off as many people as fast as possible to achieve a hypothetical herd immunity from COVID19 that has yet to be proven.
 
I am okay with whistle blowing, but not on everything.
It is kind of a catch 22, cuz what are the right things to rat on.
So people came up with "nobody like a rat"
So if you do it you should probably not tell you did so, and that's probably also why we see whistle blower laws.
Which we Danes will get one more off soon, as it seem like many people in small companies approach their union asking for what to do in regard to their work place swindling with corona aid.
personally i see people that do that as thieves of my money ( tax ) so i would be infuriated, almost as much as with US and what not hedge funds swindling billions of Danish and other country tax payers with fraudulent claims of share sales.
THB on that one i like to send a squad of Danish spacial forces to upper Manhattan and take those SOB's out, like dangle them from the Chrysler building or something.
 
There are enough dashcams in UK for it to be worth police politely asking for dashcam evidence from people they know where in the area without needing to know if you do or do not have one, and even if you don't, you may still have seen something useful, you don't need to respond positively if you don't want to. They also fairly regularly ask in the papers/TV news when they don't have much to start from, presumably enough people respond to make it worth while.

People (Police, Authority, etc) can ask all they want. You're free to decline giving an answer. That's democracy. Now we're on the same page. Just because dash cameras are manufactured, doesn't mean you're at liberty to turn over evidence, admit you had evidence, or say you saw X event take place.

Governments using cameras with Facial and License plate recognition far exceeds the capacity of a normal dash camera purchased by you or I.
 
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