2021 Climate Change

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Nigel

Nigel

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All that concrete it take to build a dam, consume massive amounts of power, most often in the form of oil or gas to make the heats needed to make the concrete, the single largest Co2 emitter here in Denmark is the Aalborg portland cement factory.
Most of the CO2 from concrete is from the chemistry of its manufacture, not from the energy. Yes, concrete is a major source of CO2, and dams can't be made without huge amounts of it.

Which I think is why hydro power is rated by the IPCC at 24 gCO2eq/kWh compared to wind power at 11, and wind is significantly improving that figure while hydro is not. Any hydro that requires a dam is very harmful to the local environment, and often human life too when villages get flooded. Hydro that doesn't require a dam is generally insignificant in its power output, with just a few exceptions.

FYI 75% of all offshore wind equipment in the world are shipped from Esbjerg port in Denmark, on a good day 50 trucks arrive at the port with various wind turbine parts.
I think that is probably a false figure too, just because a "turbine" is shipped from Esbjerg doesn't mean that the base, tower, or blades are!

Human sewage waste being spread on crops in the UK sounds like a very risky practice, especially because it includes these solids (poop and many harmful contaminants). Human urine used alone is different because it can be pasteurized
Of course it is not, probably much safer than animal waste since human food is much more strictly regulated!

However the waste is not spread on land as raw sewage, it first goes through anaerobic digesters which break down most nasty chemicals and release the energy for heat and power, a significant contributor to the national power grid, then there are rules for how it is used on the land, which ensure it does not get back into the food chain until it has had time to fully biodegrade. The only real concern at the moment is from microplastics, but they are everywhere anyway!

Simply pasteurizing human urine and spraying it on food doesn't sound very nice, pasteurized milk still goes bad given a bit of time!
 

kamkar

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I heard this is a TV program, they did mention all manner of parts, and i also think they all ship from Esbjerg, but it could well be that some parts are made elsewhere for some projects.
But just checked the series the program was a part off are from 2014,,,,, i did not consider this aspect.
 

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Of course it is not, probably much safer than animal waste since human food is much more strictly regulated!

However the waste is not spread on land as raw sewage, it first goes through anaerobic digesters which break down most nasty chemicals and release the energy for heat and power, a significant contributor to the national power grid, then there are rules for how it is used on the land, which ensure it does not get back into the food chain until it has had time to fully biodegrade. The only real concern at the moment is from microplastics, but they are everywhere anyway!

Simply pasteurizing human urine and spraying it on food doesn't sound very nice, pasteurized milk still goes bad given a bit of time!

Human waste often contains E. coli and persistent pharmaceutical chemicals so it still remains to be seen how safe it can be made to apply to food crops. As for animal waste, I grow a lot of produce on my property as do many of the farms surrounding my property and we all use composted raw cow, goat or sheep manure with no health issues whatsoever. I created one of my vegetable gardens with the help of a penned in pig that I raised and she left me with a wonderful, fertile garden space for planting.

I think I'll stick with animal waste over human waste for my fertilizer for the time being.

As for human waste sludge you seem to be ignoring the literature and the links I posted which suggest that it is far from safe to apply to human food crops.

A report on the sludge being imported from the Netherlands for application to UK croplands warned that sludge widely used as fertilizer is contaminated with dangerous “persistent organic pollutants” like dioxins, fuerans, and polycyclic aromatic hydrocarbons at “levels that may present a risk to human health”.

And as you said, it is contaminated with microplastics which you probably shouldn't incinerate and then apply the ashes to soils. These sludges also contain heavy metals, another pollutant that does not "biodegrade" as you claim.

It also found that these sludges were widely contaminated with microplastics that could ultimately leave soil “unsuitable for agriculture”.

As for pasteurizing human urine I basically agree with you but you forget that I pointed out that the Rich Earth Institute is a research facility and none of the urine is applied to crops that humans consume and they certainly don't keep the processed urine around long enough to go rancid before they apply it to their experimental crop fields.
 
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HonestReview

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Still baiting I see.

Just to be clear, I didn't allege your sources were not reliable. I asserted that your entire premise is irrelevant to electric car chargers and that you changed the subject to complaining about the benefits and value of hydro powewr when you lost the argument about carbon emissions from the Vermont power grid.

Um, you actually stated that verbatim. "Facts? Irrelevant Facts are meaningless and Gratuitous".

No one changed the subject. You are escape goating your own statements. My Facts are irrelevant and meaningless, PROVE IT. Your opinion is NOT PROOF.

Facts? Irrelevant facts are meaningless and gratuitous.

This is all just more of your self serving gibberish, HonestReview.

Actually, I haven't lost the argument. But you did "Slam Dunk" Thanks @kamkar!

1. Concrete Production + Machinery to Produce and Assemble = Carbon Pollution + Fossil Fuels

2. Dams = Environmental Nightmare that consume land not meant to be flooded, especially if reservoirs are added. Resulting in loss of trees that absorb carbon, diverting rivers against their natural flow, harming wildlife, etc etc.

Please tell me:

1. How my facts are wrong.

2. How Dams don't result in Carbon Dispersion

3. How Tesla Drivers (Even in Vermont) aren't contributing to Environmental Destruction. Their "Energy" to charge has to be produced somewhere. 80% of that energy is fossil fuel generated in the U.S. In Vermont 57.8% comes from Dams. Which aren't "Green Friendly".


At first glance, concrete appears to be unproblematic. It does not contain any fossil fuels, it is non-toxic, and it does not float in the oceans in the form of plastic waste. But this impression is misleading, because cement production is currently the largest industrial emitter of CO2 emissions worldwide, accounting for about 8 percent or 2.7 billion tons of CO2 per year. This is due to the combustion of fossil fuels -- mostly coal -- at temperatures of around 1,000 degrees Celsius and sintering at around 1,450 degrees Celsius.

Credit to @kamkar for pointing out my oversight.
 
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Dashmellow

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Um, you actually stated that verbatim. "Facts? Irrelevant Facts are meaningless and Gratuitous".

No one changed the subject. You are escape goating your own statements. My Facts are irrelevant and meaningless, PROVE IT. Your opinion is NOT PROOF.



Actually, I haven't lost the argument. But you did "Slam Dunk" Thanks @kamkar!


1. Concrete Production + Machinery to Produce and Assemble = Carbon Pollution + Fossil Fuels

2. Dams = Environmental Nightmare that consume land not meant to be flooded, especially if reservoirs are added. Resulting in loss of trees that absorb carbon, diverting rivers against their natural flow, harming wildlife, etc etc.

Please tell me:

1. How my facts are wrong.

2. How Dams don't result in Carbon Dispersion

3. How Tesla Drivers (Even in Vermont) aren't contributing to Environmental Destruction. Their "Energy" to charge has to be produced somewhere. 80% of that energy is fossil fuel generated in the U.S. In Vermont 57.8% comes from Dams. Which aren't "Green Friendly".


At first glance, concrete appears to be unproblematic. It does not contain any fossil fuels, it is non-toxic, and it does not float in the oceans in the form of plastic waste. But this impression is misleading, because cement production is currently the largest industrial emitter of CO2 emissions worldwide, accounting for about 8 percent or 2.7 billion tons of CO2 per year. This is due to the combustion of fossil fuels -- mostly coal -- at temperatures of around 1,000 degrees Celsius and sintering at around 1,450 degrees Celsius.

Credit to @kamkar for pointing out my oversight.

It is astonishing, but not at all surprising that you are still at this.

As I've said previously, you should at least try to get a grip on yourself. These non-stop adversarial posts and personal affronts suggest that you are a troubled fellow who lives in your own unique reality.

How did you get from Tesla chargers in Vermont are a problem to ranting that concrete causes global warming? This gets more ridiculous the longer you carry on with this. Whatever reality you are in seems completely disconnected from this one.

"Escape goating"? Really? :ROFLMAO:
 
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kamkar

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With dams there also is the sediment question, many a bad thing get trapped in rain, getting transported down the river to the sea and deposited there for "long time storage"
Rain trap Co2, acidic rain de solve rock, rock get taken to the sea and stored there, and thats forgetting all the other nice nutrients people living along rivers have long reaped the benefits of.

So yeah, you can not throw a stone anywhere and not hurt or break something it seem, so we are back to our perpetual question of choosing between plague and cholera / 2 evils / Rock - Hard place.

Us talking about it, cherry picking, that is not going to help much.
If i won the lottery i would like reused bricks on the outside of my house, but the inner "frame" i am sure will have to be made in concrete prefab elements, or price would just skyrocket to where i need to win one of the substantial lotto wins.
And i would also get solar and wind there if possible, but not really for the environment, more like for my own selfish need to be independent,,,, i would also like my own private well for my water.

As it is i will probably just have to drive a high mileage car, and only cuz gas are so damn expensive here, and thats probably all i will ever be able to do for the environment, aside for picking up other peoples trash when we are in the forest driving our little electric scale off road RC cars.
 
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Nigel

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But just checked the series the program was a part off are from 2014,,,,, i did not consider this aspect.
Yes, back then there were enough construction workers in Denmark to do the job, very different now!

As for animal waste, I grow a lot of produce on my property as do many of the farms surrounding my property and we all use composted raw cow, goat or sheep manure with no health issues whatsoever.
If it is properly composted then it is not raw! In fact when done on an industrial scale it is sterilised by the heat given off by the composting process, not just pasteurized. Same is true of the sewage sludge, so there is no chance of E. coli persisting.

so it still remains to be seen how safe it can be made to apply to food crops.
This is not a new process, that was my original point

you seem to be ignoring the literature and the links I posted which suggest that it is far from safe to apply to human food crops.
It is not supposed to be put in human food!
It is supposed to be plant food, and may not be used if the plants are shortly due for human consumption.
 

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It is astonishing, but not at all surprising that you are still at this.

As I've said previously, you should at least try to get a grip on yourself. These non-stop adversarial posts and personal affronts suggest that you are a troubled fellow who lives in your own unique reality.

How did you get from Tesla chargers in Vermont are a problem to ranting that concrete causes global warming? This gets more ridiculous the longer you carry on with this. Whatever reality you are in seems completely disconnected from this one.

"Escape goating"? Really? :ROFLMAO:

Because you challenged @Nigel on his standpoint and so fair game to pick up and question your methods. By boasting about "Teslas" which are a Feel Good car but aren't really changing the status quo until the energy used to charge them is RENEWABLE and CLEANLY GENERATED.
 

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Just in the greater capitol area here, they are down 1200 nurses they under no circumstances can hire anywhere, and many of the nurses working on hospitals, well they are seriously looking for other jobs.
And thats just around the capitol hospitals the trend are the same on all hospitals, and the nurses was just asked by the PM to once again go the extra mile as corona are on the up, they are not going anywhere and i fully support them on that.

A severe lack of skilled people here, even just trade jobs are in high demand, my nephew that became a skilled mason 6 months or so ago, he is earning a wage at least 25% over the norm, and that use to be only something that happened in Copenhagen even if masons over there put down fewer stones a hour than a mason over here in the real Denmark.

I think we put human poop on the fields here, but not before it have been past one of the " fart factories" IE the plants that suck out all the methane in waste, and of course then not put on there just before harvest, i know of no crop that get fertilized just before harvest.

All the clean energy here, get sucked up by a couple or 3 facetwittoogleapple data centers,,,,, and i hate those are here i want them OUT !
 
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Dashmellow

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Because you challenged @Nigel on his standpoint and so fair game to pick up and question your methods. By boasting about "Teslas" which are a Feel Good car but aren't really changing the status quo until the energy used to charge them is RENEWABLE and CLEANLY GENERATED.

Because I questioned the value of the device Nigel was presenting you feel entitled to go on a multi-day accusative, obsessive rant. That's a good one! The thing I focused on more than the invention itself was the absurd hyperbole the CEO used when he compared his barely tested new invention by making comparisons to the disruption that Elon Musk’s Tesla has brought to the automobile sector after 18 years of hard work. Of course, you ignore that because it doesn't fit your narrative and because you apparently don't pay attention.

While your overinflated sense of superiority leads you to believe that Tesla is nothing more than a "feel good" car, actual experts recognize the brand as the pioneering leader in the transition to the future of electric vehicle transportation, one that is vital to a carbon free future. And how many CEOs literally give away their primary patents for a world changing technology? You really oughta' be more careful and discerning about who and what you "escape goat"! :smuggrin:

Electric cars in and of themselves are only one piece of the puzzle. That is self evident to everyone but you. Apparently instead, you prefer to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You are obviously not half as smart as you try to make yourself out to be.
 

Dashmellow

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If it is properly composted then it is not raw! In fact when done on an industrial scale it is sterilised by the heat given off by the composting process, not just pasteurized. Same is true of the sewage sludge, so there is no chance of E. coli persisting
It starts out raw before it is composted. That was my point. Perhaps you are being disingenuous and nit picky?

This is not a new process, that was my original point
It may not be new but it is proving to be dangerous because of all the persistent contaminants it contains.

It is not supposed to be put in human food!
It is supposed to be plant food, and may not be used if the plants are shortly due for human consumption.

If you use it in the soil as fertilizer to grow human food in, there is no good outcome and studies show the soils can be contaminated literally forever due to the types of persistant contaminants in the sludge that can't be removed by any process.
 
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HonestReview

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Because I questioned the value of the device Nigel was presenting you feel entitled to go on a multi-day accusative, obsessive rant. That's a good one! The thing I focused on more than the invention itself was the absurd hyperbole the CEO used when he compared his barely tested new invention by making comparisons to the disruption that Elon Musk’s Tesla has brought to the automobile sector after 18 years of hard work. Of course, you ignore that because it doesn't fit your narrative and because you apparently don't pay attention.

Ah yes, the rants of someone who feels threatened....

For someone championing Elon Musk, and putting down a New Inventor, you seem to gloss over the fact Elon Musk and Tesla almost went bankrupt. So on that basis, Elon Musk is a failure and should have quit without attempting to better Tesla when his invention and innovations didn't first succeed out the gate. Understood.

Or so that was your response to Nigel for the "Absurd Hyperbole of the CEO" when he compared his barely tested new invention to Elon Musk

Truthfully, your response was laughably absurd. Not Nigel's. New Inventors shouldn't shoot for the stars. If they don't immediately succeed. Quit!

Tesla’s financial woes earlier this year were so severe that the electric-car maker was only weeks away from “death,” according to Chief Executive Elon Musk.




While your overinflated sense of superiority leads you to believe that Tesla is nothing more than a "feel good" car, actual experts recognize the brand as the pioneering leader in the transition to the future of electric vehicle transportation, one that is vital to a carbon free future. And how many CEOs literally give away their primary patents for a world changing technology? You really oughta' be more careful and discerning about who and what you "escape goat"! :smuggrin:

Here we go again. Back to the "Victim Card". When you feel threatened by facts, you simply divert the topic, throw a temper tantrum, and go off on a tangent in hopes of ending the debate and getting the thread locked. Not working. Good try though!

Funny, Now looks who is name calling.....and Insulting Again. I think the Mods already warned you once before. See Bold and Underlined.

Kudos Elon Musk is sharing his invention (patents). You know who also did that? Volvo. They gave away their safety technology to other brands. Innovation often requires cooperation. Most inventors build upon an established product and make it better.

Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc again pledged to give away 90% of their wealth upon death. Altruism does exist.


Electric cars in and of themselves are only one piece of the puzzle. That is self evident to everyone but you. Apparently instead, you prefer to throw the baby out with the bathwater. You are obviously not half as smart as you try to make yourself out to be.

Still doesn't address the questions you've ignored.....

1. Dams Are very harmful to the environment.

2. Concrete is production is the largest emitter of Co2's in the world. You know that stuff required to BUILD A DAM. And the Machinery used burns fossil fuels and further pollutes the atmosphere.


At first glance, concrete appears to be unproblematic. It does not contain any fossil fuels, it is non-toxic, and it does not float in the oceans in the form of plastic waste. But this impression is misleading, because cement production is currently the largest industrial emitter of CO2 emissions worldwide, accounting for about 8 percent or 2.7 billion tons of CO2 per year. This is due to the combustion of fossil fuels -- mostly coal -- at temperatures of around 1,000 degrees Celsius and sintering at around 1,450 degrees Celsius

3. Electric Cars are a piece of the puzzle. But right now, the energy used to power them is significantly harming the environment.

Electric Cars running off Wind Generated Powered Charging Stations or Solar Power will be a different story.

Until that happens
: Electric Cars are still a "Feed Good" technology that still ends up consuming fossil fuels to achieve a charge.
 
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Nigel

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The thing I focused on more than the invention itself was the absurd hyperbole the CEO used when he compared his barely tested new invention by making comparisons to the disruption that Elon Musk’s Tesla has brought to the automobile sector after 18 years of hard work.
That does not appear absurd to me.

His invention will work, the process has been proven to work, but not proven to be economical.

Tesla did not invent the electric car, electric cars were used before internal combustion engined cars, and electric vehicles have been in everyday use in the UK since before COP-1, our milk floats were famously electric back in the 60's: "In August 1967, the UK Electric Vehicle Association put out a press release stating that Britain had more battery-electric vehicles on its roads than the rest of the world combined.".

Tesla is just 1 of the electric vehicle makers, there are many more. Their electric vehicles may be good, but there is nothing revolutionary about an electric motor, even a Tesla one.

Producing fertilizer from electricity is new, and will be revolutionary, meaning farms do not need to cut back on their fertilizer use in order to achieve net zero, something that has been expected by many over recent years.

Doing so locally on the farm is also a revolutionary idea, if it works out to be a good one. But I'm not convinced it is, I think it is more likely that windfarms will produce plenty of fertilizer at very low cost from spare wind power, since it is a good way of storing power, and the ammonia has many other uses, such as powering shipping. If there is a massive source of very cheap fertilizer available then it is unlikely that farms will want to manufacture their own, and the idea that it removes CO2 produced by transportation is false, since transportation is all going to be net zero soon. The reason for producing it at the windfarm is that then the electricity grid and connection to the wind farm then does not need to be capable of carrying all the power available during high winds, and the savings from installing a lesser grid connection will be much more than the savings from producing fertilizer locally.
 

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I think some of the very first cars was electric cars.
But those ( no matter the propellant ) are not really comparable to modern cars.
We Danes also made electric cars in the 80ties,,,, but again i wouldn't really call those cars or compare them to a tesla.

Not really any sense of debating this too hard, we all know what to do / what we are able to do as individuals, and if we care we should do that.

I am not angry at any climate crisis denier or corona for that matter, the individuals have their right to think what they please, but if those ideas was based off come crackpot on the internet then i would be a bit miffed about that part,
I also reserve the right to laugh at or argue ( depending on my mood ) those people

The problem with climate or corona is that they are global problems, and while humans are social beings, then we do feel safer in smaller groups and seldom think of all of us as family

At least with a tesla,,,,,, as a Dane, there is a chance some of the propellant are of the nice kind, but easy for us as we have a good power grid as a result of being a small country and the power grid not being nationalized.
And we have connections to several neighboring countries, some of which do also make nice power.
As i understand it the Americans have some challenges with the power grid on a national level, and the oddest of all the balls in that regard in Texas, and as we saw lately they also got to pay for that.

The idiots in charge here, and their idiot voters, are hotly debating the super bridge from Jutland to Zeeland, lately i saw one of the really scary idiots ( politician ) argue that with the bridge build there would be massive Co2 savings, but the completion date for that bridge would be well into the years where most Danes would / should be driving electric cars,,,, so NO there would be no Co2 savings on that account.

The super bridge. (older proposed routing, the new plan seen to go from south of Aarhus and over Samsoe island and on to zeeland,, and the people of Samsoe are not happy about that )
iu


EST length: 44 Km - 27 miles,,,,,,, give or take
 
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HonestReview

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That does not appear absurd to me.

His invention will work, the process has been proven to work, but not proven to be economical.

Tesla did not invent the electric car, electric cars were used before internal combustion engined cars, and electric vehicles have been in everyday use in the UK since before COP-1, our milk floats were famously electric back in the 60's: "In August 1967, the UK Electric Vehicle Association put out a press release stating that Britain had more battery-electric vehicles on its roads than the rest of the world combined.".

Tesla is just 1 of the electric vehicle makers, there are many more. Their electric vehicles may be good, but there is nothing revolutionary about an electric motor, even a Tesla one.

Producing fertilizer from electricity is new, and will be revolutionary, meaning farms do not need to cut back on their fertilizer use in order to achieve net zero, something that has been expected by many over recent years.

Doing so locally on the farm is also a revolutionary idea, if it works out to be a good one. But I'm not convinced it is, I think it is more likely that windfarms will produce plenty of fertilizer at very low cost from spare wind power, since it is a good way of storing power, and the ammonia has many other uses, such as powering shipping. If there is a massive source of very cheap fertilizer available then it is unlikely that farms will want to manufacture their own, and the idea that it removes CO2 produced by transportation is false, since transportation is all going to be net zero soon. The reason for producing it at the windfarm is that then the electricity grid and connection to the wind farm then does not need to be capable of carrying all the power available during high winds, and the savings from installing a lesser grid connection will be much more than the savings from producing fertilizer locally.

Fail or succeed, we don't get innovations if people don't try. @Dashmellow took the stance that because this guy compared himself to Tesla, the attempt at innovation was absurd. Nothing wrong with shooting for the stars. Could be talk or could be revolution in the making.

One thing we shouldn't do is stifle innovation. Tesla almost went bankrupt, and Elon Musk figured it out, making Tesla one of the most valuable brands in the world. Success doesn't happen overnight. Many inventors fail, some succeed, but if not for trying we'd never make progress.

Any attempt to reuse waste is valiant. Sure, wind and solar are the cleanest of energies, but finding means of using waste is also important. Humans need to reduce their impact on Planet Earth as much as possible. We have this one home, and if we screw it up, we wind up like the Dinosaurs - Extinct.
 
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Nigel

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The super bridge. (older proposed routing, the new plan seen to go from south of Aarhus and over Samsoe island and on to zeeland,, and the people of Samsoe are not happy about that )
Looks rather unnecessary to me, you already have a road that makes the journey, it is only if you happen to be a politician living in Aarhus and wanting to commute to Copenhagen regularly that it would be a significant time saving, and they could just use an electric airplane which would be much faster as well as being net zero!


Bit disappointed the Royal Mail is still using fossil fuel for their flights, even though they do have plans to update to fossil free:

 

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Ah yes, the rants of someone who feels threatened....

For someone championing Elon Musk, and putting down a New Inventor, you seem to gloss over the fact Elon Musk and Tesla almost went bankrupt. So on that basis, Elon Musk is a failure and should have quit without attempting to better Tesla when his invention and innovations didn't first succeed out the gate. Understood.

Or so that was your response to Nigel for the "Absurd Hyperbole of the CEO" when he compared his barely tested new invention to Elon Musk

Truthfully, your response was laughably absurd. Not Nigel's. New Inventors shouldn't shoot for the stars. If they don't immediately succeed. Quit!

Tesla’s financial woes earlier this year were so severe that the electric-car maker was only weeks away from “death,” according to Chief Executive Elon Musk.






Here we go again. Back to the "Victim Card". When you feel threatened by facts, you simply divert the topic, throw a temper tantrum, and go off on a tangent in hopes of ending the debate and getting the thread locked. Not working. Good try though!

Funny, Now looks who is name calling.....and Insulting Again. I think the Mods already warned you once before. See Bold and Underlined.

Kudos Elon Musk is sharing his invention (patents). You know who also did that? Volvo. They gave away their safety technology to other brands. Innovation often requires cooperation. Most inventors build upon an established product and make it better.

Bill Gates, Warren Buffet, etc again pledged to give away 90% of their wealth upon death. Altruism does exist.




Still doesn't address the questions you've ignored.....

1. Dams Are very harmful to the environment.

2. Concrete is production is the largest emitter of Co2's in the world. You know that stuff required to BUILD A DAM. And the Machinery used burns fossil fuels and further pollutes the atmosphere.


At first glance, concrete appears to be unproblematic. It does not contain any fossil fuels, it is non-toxic, and it does not float in the oceans in the form of plastic waste. But this impression is misleading, because cement production is currently the largest industrial emitter of CO2 emissions worldwide, accounting for about 8 percent or 2.7 billion tons of CO2 per year. This is due to the combustion of fossil fuels -- mostly coal -- at temperatures of around 1,000 degrees Celsius and sintering at around 1,450 degrees Celsius

3. Electric Cars are a piece of the puzzle. But right now, the energy used to power them is significantly harming the environment.

Electric Cars running off Wind Generated Powered Charging Stations or Solar Power will be a different story.

Until that happens
: Electric Cars are still a "Feed Good" technology that still ends up consuming fossil fuels to achieve a charge.

No, I don't feel threatened by a little man like you who enters each and every thread on this forum with a self-righteous attitude and a chip on your shoulder. With each of your provocative, disjointed posts and ad hominem attacks you sound more and more unhinged and disconnected from reality. It is hard to believe you are still at this but obsessive compulsive, derisory posting that goes on for days and days every time you go out of your way to pick a petty fight with me is a routine at this point. This is what internet trolls do, of course. But none of this has anything to do with you having anything worthwhile to say or contribute to the forum, it's really all about you looking for conflict, which is something you are apparently addicted to.

As for Elon Musk nearly going bankrupt, that is old news that I referred to it in my first post about this. You know, the post you chose as a catalyst to engage this moronic spat with me several days ago.

the success Elon Musk has finally achieved with Tesla after 18 years of hard work and near failure

I certainly didn't gloss over anything I meant it as a compliment to Musk. Tesla had several near death experiences along the way but now that the company is the most valuable motor vehicle manufacturer in the world it is simply a testament to Musk's perseverance and is something that he can wear as a badge of honor. And the army of Tesla short sellers in the stock market that spent years expecting to profit off of their anticipations and hope for Tesla's demise have all had to run away with their tails between their legs.

I do find it fascinating that you have the habit of repeatedly accusing me of the behaviors you yourself are the one to regularly engage in. It is a symptom of a particular personality disorder actually.

So, this time around you characterize my brief reply to you as "rant" and then immediately launch into another one of your tedious and pointless tirades. Just amazing!
 

kamkar

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you already have a road that makes the journey

Indeed but just like the people of Copenhagen cant bother to drive West on the E20 motorway and then turn left when they reach Jutland to get to Germany, Juts cant drive south on the E45 and then turn left at Vejle / Frederecia onto the E20 to get across Fuen and Zeeland.

IMO it is just one big exercise in financial mismanagement.

PS. The Danish air force just deployed the electrical trainer aircraft people will learn the basics on before they are let loose in a F35,,,,,,,, which i do hope are more successful than seen elsewhere lately.

iu


No word on us yet again missing out on our NATO commitments as a lot of things in that regard will be delayed again for years.

But okay with a minister of defense being a woke little girl , and also a demi communist AKA social democrat, with absolutely NO military experience, what else is to be expected.

iu
 

Dashmellow

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That does not appear absurd to me.

His invention will work, the process has been proven to work, but not proven to be economical.

Tesla did not invent the electric car, electric cars were used before internal combustion engined cars, and electric vehicles have been in everyday use in the UK since before COP-1, our milk floats were famously electric back in the 60's: "In August 1967, the UK Electric Vehicle Association put out a press release stating that Britain had more battery-electric vehicles on its roads than the rest of the world combined.".

Tesla is just 1 of the electric vehicle makers, there are many more. Their electric vehicles may be good, but there is nothing revolutionary about an electric motor, even a Tesla one.

Producing fertilizer from electricity is new, and will be revolutionary, meaning farms do not need to cut back on their fertilizer use in order to achieve net zero, something that has been expected by many over recent years.

Doing so locally on the farm is also a revolutionary idea, if it works out to be a good one. But I'm not convinced it is, I think it is more likely that windfarms will produce plenty of fertilizer at very low cost from spare wind power, since it is a good way of storing power, and the ammonia has many other uses, such as powering shipping. If there is a massive source of very cheap fertilizer available then it is unlikely that farms will want to manufacture their own, and the idea that it removes CO2 produced by transportation is false, since transportation is all going to be net zero soon. The reason for producing it at the windfarm is that then the electricity grid and connection to the wind farm then does not need to be capable of carrying all the power available during high winds, and the savings from installing a lesser grid connection will be much more than the savings from producing fertilizer locally.

You are quite right, Tesla certainly didn't invent the electric car. Electric cars have been around since the 1880s. The first one was introduced all the way back in 1834. But just like your "milk" floats they faded away into the dust bin of history.

What Musk has achieved is quite different. When he first founded Tesla his stated goal was to bring about a paradigm shift away from the industry of gasoline powered automobiles to an electric one. His goal was to make the Tesla an exemplar in order to kick start the shift to electric vehicles and that is exactly what he did! This was the reason he literally gave away Tesla's patents to any manufacturer who wanted to follow his lead and that is the reason we are now seeing so many new electric cars and trucks coming to market. He proved that modern electric vehicles are viable. In the meantime, despite the unprecedented act of giving away all the primary patents Tesla has become the most valuable motor vehicle manufacturer on the planet with a brand value of 42.6 billion. This exceeds the previous world leader Toyota followed by Mercedes.

Oh, and also while he was turning Tesla into a massive success he founded SpaceX, Starlink, The Boring Company, Hyperloop, Neuralink and a range of remarkable products like the Powerwall, solar roofing shingles, megawatt grid battery arrays, and numerous other ground breaking products. He patented an early technology back in 1997 for making telephone calls over the internet, long before Skype came along. He's founded a number of other ground breaking companies as well, including PayPal and is currently working on a concept for an electric airplane. He's not the first on this but he may have the resources and wherewithal to pull it off in a way others don't. His ultimate goal is to produce electric airliners and his company's prowess with battery engineering and manufacture may be the thing that makes it happen.

The notion of producing nitrogen fertilizer with electricity seems a worthy one but its success remains to be seen. At best it would likely be a niche product for certain farmers. My comment about the CEO of FuelPostive, a small start-up company working on this 'hydrogen ammonia synthesizer' which has no track record to speak of "already making comparisons to the disruption that Elon Musk’s Tesla has brought to the automobile sector" is in my view premature, presumptuous and hyperbolic. History is rife with clever ideas and innovations that have never gone anywhere. Boastfully equating your nascent start-up fertilizer company to what Elon Musk has achieved is like comparing yourself to the technological disruptions brought about by the likes of Thomas Edison. (who btw was involved with the production of an electric car that faded into history's backwater)


electric-vehicle-woman-charging.jpeg

baker_edison.jpg
 
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kamkar

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The electric car / horseless coach / buggy, was a Ladies car, not as messy as the fule burners, and not as hard to get going ( crank )

Jay Leno the gear head that he is, of course have one of these oldies too.
Jay in his electric Baker car.

iu
 
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