Additional Battery Pack Alternatives and Considerations

[droidus]

I am looking to purchase the VIOFO A129 Pro Duo 4K Dual Dash Cam. I've looked at two battery packs and noticed they are hundreds of dollars. Is there any way to hook up a normal battery charger?
Also, how safe is it to keep a normal battery in your car, especially in extreme conditions (hot and cold)?

 

[RaybanRJ]

Personally I use regular power banks, three 16,000 mA ones and a 20,100 mA. I’ve had no problems in temperatures as cold as -15 to 20°C but in the hot sun in the summertime I try not to leave them in the car. But most of the time the car is parked in an underground Parkade so no problems whatsoever and with motion sensing turned on I usually get a full day or two before I have to change them.

But I’m sure that I misunderstanding what you mean by battery packs so I’ll leave it at that

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[droidus]

Personally I use regular power banks, three 16,000 mA ones and a 120,100 mA. I’ve had no problems in temperatures as cold as -15 to 20°C but in the hot sun in the summertime I try not to leave them in the car. But most of the time the car is parked in an underground Parkade so no problems whatsoever and with motion sensing turned on I usually get a full day or two before I have to change them.

But I’m sure that I misunderstanding what you mean by battery packs so I’ll leave it at that

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Nope, that is exactly what I was getting at!
I would like to leave them in my car. Instead of going from the dashcam to the fuse box, I would like to have one of these installed, but not sure how the connection would work... It would kind of look like this: Dashcam -> Battery power pack -> fuse box. But I am not sure what connectors/cables, etc. I would need to make this work?

 

[RaybanRJ]

Nope, that is exactly what I was getting at!
I would like to leave them in my car. Instead of going from the dashcam to the fuse box, I would like to have one of these installed, but not sure how the connection would work... It would kind of look like this: Dashcam -> Battery power pack -> fuse box. But I am not sure what connectors/cables, etc. I would need to make this work?

Ah ok cool.

Well I don’t involve the car battery at all, not overnight anyway. Here’s a video of what I do....

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[SawMaster]

What you would need to do what you describe is known as a "pass through" type powerbank. What these do is function as a battery pack, then when charging is applied as the engine runs part of the current passes through the powerbank and goes to the cam. Do beware that some that are advertised as being pass-through actually aren't; it's not an easy process to manage correctly and these bogus units can be unsafe in use.

The "Cellink Neo" functions like this in use and is very popular with dashcam users, but it too has some things to be aware of. First is price- it ain't cheap. Second is that even in it's 'fast charge mode' you still need about a 45 minute drive to fully charge it (slow charge mode takes a few hours). And there have been some apparently random reports of units dying far earlier than they should but overall it's not too bad. You can add the B-124 battery extender to this for longer runtimes

What many people do its to use two regular powerbanks, with one running the cam while the other charges at home, then swapping the units out daily. Based on your cam and usage large units might run your cam all day, smaller ones or heavier use might need you to switch the cables between a car-powered supply and the powerbank when you park, then switching the cable back when you drive. It can be a hassle but in time it becomes an automatic thing and will take only a handful of seconds to do oncew the habit develops. This can be the cheapest option based on the powerbanks you use

Whichever powerbank-type device you use, for safety you never want a powerbank to be directly exposed to sunlight even when not in use. At best that will greatly shorten it's lifespan and at worst it could lead to a cell "venting with flames" like you've seen vids of hoverboards and vaping devices doing Cheap ones are particularly dangerous for this. Use only the top brands or ones recommended by people here on DCT who have used them successfully.

There are other alternatives you can use but they are DIY solutions where you will have to purchase the parts seperately and wire them in yourself. A really good DIY type person can manage this but it's a long way from "plug-and-play" stuff, so it's not for the average person. If this seems interesting I can point you to some threads and posts on the subject.

Phil

 

[RaybanRJ]

Well guess what today I noticed that my oldest power bank it’s two years old, has some swell to it and discharges to 97% from 100 in a matter of a few hours when it’s not in use so this one’s going in the recycle bin. That’s something you have to watch for if you have these power banks exposed to temperature changes I guess

The swelled one is on the left

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[Dashmellow]

Be careful with that thing! There is quite likely an enormous amount of pressurized gas building up inside the swelling cells as well as the sealed housing of the battery bank. If it bursts, those lithium saturated gases will suddenly come into contact with oxygen and burst into flames, ignited by a short circuit from the cells. Basically, it will explode.

I don't know what your options are for disposing/recycling but don't just toss it into a bin with other batteries. If it should catch fire it could possibly ignite all the adjacent batteries in the bin.

Perhaps ask someone at your recycling facility what the best procedure is for a situation like this. In the meantime, store it in a safe place where it can do no harm until you figure out what to do. You don't want to mess with a lithium metal fire!

 

[droidus]

What you would need to do what you describe is known as a "pass through" type powerbank. What these do is function as a battery pack, then when charging is applied as the engine runs part of the current passes through the powerbank and goes to the cam. Do beware that some that are advertised as being pass-through actually aren't; it's not an easy process to manage correctly and these bogus units can be unsafe in use.

The "Cellink Neo" functions like this in use and is very popular with dashcam users, but it too has some things to be aware of. First is price- it ain't cheap. Second is that even in it's 'fast charge mode' you still need about a 45 minute drive to fully charge it (slow charge mode takes a few hours). And there have been some apparently random reports of units dying far earlier than they should but overall it's not too bad. You can add the B-124 battery extender to this for longer runtimes

What many people do its to use two regular powerbanks, with one running the cam while the other charges at home, then swapping the units out daily. Based on your cam and usage large units might run your cam all day, smaller ones or heavier use might need you to switch the cables between a car-powered supply and the powerbank when you park, then switching the cable back when you drive. It can be a hassle but in time it becomes an automatic thing and will take only a handful of seconds to do oncew the habit develops. This can be the cheapest option based on the powerbanks you use

Whichever powerbank-type device you use, for safety you never want a powerbank to be directly exposed to sunlight even when not in use. At best that will greatly shorten it's lifespan and at worst it could lead to a cell "venting with flames" like you've seen vids of hoverboards and vaping devices doing Cheap ones are particularly dangerous for this. Use only the top brands or ones recommended by people here on DCT who have used them successfully.

There are other alternatives you can use but they are DIY solutions where you will have to purchase the parts seperately and wire them in yourself. A really good DIY type person can manage this but it's a long way from "plug-and-play" stuff, so it's not for the average person. If this seems interesting I can point you to some threads and posts on the subject.

Phil

Wow, thanks for this!
Yeah, I just find the price kind of astounding for a simple power bank. What happens if I don't drive 45 minutes? Will I have to go with the second option mentioned?
How long can a battery pack last? I am sure it varies on size of bank, type of camera, etc., but is it hours, days, or weeks, in general? If only hours, it seems like a great hassle.

 

[Dashmellow]

Wow, thanks for this!
Yeah, I just find the price kind of astounding for a simple power bank. What happens if I don't drive 45 minutes? Will I have to go with the second option mentioned?
How long can a battery pack last? I am sure it varies on size of bank, type of camera, etc., but is it hours, days, or weeks, in general? If only hours, it seems like a great hassle.

I've done a fair amount of battery bank testing. I tested a Street Guardian SG9665GC with a 20,000 mAh lithium polymer battery bank and it ran for more than 50 hours.

Generally speaking, you don't want to drain a power bank down all the way like that in normal use.

 

[SawMaster]

@Dashmellow has lots of powerbank experience so maybe he can set you up with the info you need

Phil

 

[RaybanRJ]

Be careful with that thing! There is quite likely an enormous amount of pressurized gas building up inside the swelling cells as well as the sealed housing of the battery bank. If it bursts, those lithium saturated gases will suddenly come into contact with oxygen and burst into flames, ignited by a short circuit from the cells. Basically, it will explode.

I don't know what your options are for disposing/recycling but don't just toss it into a bin with other batteries. If it should catch fire it could possibly ignite all the adjacent batteries in the bin.

Perhaps ask someone at your recycling facility what the best procedure is for a situation like this. In the meantime, store it in a safe place where it can do no harm until you figure out what to do. You don't want to mess with a lithium metal fire!

OK so your message here made me realize I didn’t want this thing in my house and I sure didn’t want it in my car, So I asked the fire department a casual question what can I do with this thing, I couldn’t get a hold of the fire inspectors they were out, so I talk to the girls in administration they didn’t know what to do so one of them said try the local Sarcan that’s a Canadian place to take in your bottles and you get money for them it’s a recycle place, but they don’t do batteries anymore so they suggested this battery place way up on the north industrial part of town so I just finally got back LOL what a pain.


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[SawMaster]

Not sure if Menard's takes them but similar US retailers like Home Depot and Lowes often do. "Call2Recycle" has a headquarters in Toronto and promotes recycling of these. Most stores who specialize in various types of batteries also recycle them. Do call ahead to find out

Phil

 

[kamkar]

Those batteries are probably crammed full of 18650 cells, that could well be used for other things.
I have myself recycled a few HID flashlight batteries, that was "dead" just cuz one of the cells inside failed.

 

[RaybanRJ]

Not sure if Menard's takes them but similar US retailers like Home Depot and Lowes often do. "Call2Recycle" has a headquarters in Toronto and promotes recycling of these. Most stores who specialize in various types of batteries also recycle them. Do call ahead to find out

Phil

Oh yeah believe me I phoned ahead! Just glad I got rid of that mini nuclear reactor


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[Philzter888]

Hi,

I hope this thread is not too old. I am testing a "pre-dash cam" setup along these lines but only using a mobile modem which consumes 1-3w (average say around 30wh per day) as a test bed for "parking mode", and am finding some problems with a 24/7 setup. I'm trying to avoid the battery swap thing.

Has anyone experimented with dual charging via SOLAR input and 12v or AC? Say you can charge the battery around 10wh per day (avoiding fast charge) for 1hr of driving and hopefully make up the balance via a small 5w solar panel on the dash. I have this setup at the moment, but here is the problem - most lithium batteries don't seem to be regulated (or virtually regulated) like sealed lead ones. This means when the sun drops out, these batteries drop the load and restarts any device attached to it. Now I guess you can get regulated lithium ones (that manage the pass through better) but they tend to be very large battery generators (that are non pass through, and require larger solar panels) or very old lithium models (e.g., Goal Zero Venture 30). The setup I have at the moment is to cover up the solar panel when its NOT in constant sunshine - in which case the modem runs off the battery only. The second option I've been thinking is to "daisy chain" two banks - one which stores the solar during the day, and the other which actively provides the electrons during the day. And then implement some kind of scheduled night time transfer - the bust I'm finding here is the lack of a USB scheduled timer. There is an interesting timer by Sonoff called the Micro but I think that's a dead end too because I'm guessing its idle and wifi power consumption is too much parasitic loss to be worthwhile (my calculations estimate around 10whr per day).

I prefer to persist and problem solve with the current setup because: 1) The battery is small enough to place in some kind of steel fireproofed shell for safety; 2) I can monitor and store temperatures with a sensor in the shell (Elitech); and 3) l can mitigate temperatures further with USB fans off the battery if necessary. Any ideas? At all costs I'm trying to avoid any plug into the fuse box, larger battery, voltage cut-offs etc. Essentially I'm building a parallel or auxiliary battery system.

 

[Nigel]

Has anyone experimented with dual charging via SOLAR input and 12v or AC? Say you can charge the battery around 10wh per day (avoiding fast charge) for 1hr of driving and hopefully make up the balance via a small 5w solar panel on the dash.

That is highly unlikely to work acceptably well unless your battery is designed to take a solar charging input, or you have access to the cells so that you can charge the battery cells from the solar via a separate solar charger.

Also, a 5W solar panel is unlikely to provide enough power to be useful, you can expect to lose half of the power just by putting the panel behind car glass, then it has to be in direct sun with nothing putting a shadow on it or you get a dramatic drop in power. Not really worth bothering unless you use a 20W+ panel.

This is an example of the best way to use solar panels, although the solar part is still not going to be very successful in winter:

Alternate solution to battery backup power

Shortly after I bought my dashcam (see signature) I made this thread about various solutions (thanks to everyone that responded in that thread). TL;DR I settled on upgrading to a 60Ah AGM battery for my car and leaving it at that. With regular driving mid-week it gave full recording over the...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[Philzter888]

That is highly unlikely to work acceptably well unless your battery is designed to take a solar charging input, or you have access to the cells so that you can charge the battery cells from the solar via a separate solar charger.

Thanks for the link. However, I do not wish to have a large non-factory two-way connection to the car's electrical circuit. The car already has stop-start system that cannot be turned off, and does many short trips already and a factory AGM battery is super expensive. Many new cars have electronics and looms which are very sensitive. I had an old car with electrical problems and its a nightmare to find a good auto-electrician and the only solution the dealer wants is to replace the entire wiring loom or write-off your warranty if there's a code thrown. Alternatively, I also do not wish to carry a large auxillary lead-acid or a large non-lifepo4 lithium battery with passengers.

The 5W panel I have only has a USB output, and so do many others. It is winter here in QLD Australia, and I can get 1-2W out of it behind the windscreen - which is a 50%-60% lower than compared to without windshield, but the panel works even in partial shadow (according to the voltmeter, battery LED charging indicator and the load device). The battery is a pass-through so any weaknesses in voltage drops the load, turning over to battery mode. When the car is in motion and goes into shadows is also not a problem since power is coming from the alternator via a bypass. The problem is when its parked in full shadow but detects light conditions and attempts to use the pass-through without enough voltage and doesn't switch over to battery. I also have a foldout type with 50W-rated but weighs 5lb which provides up to 30W output. The smaller one is preferred because I can leave it on with velcro and a ipad magnetic cover that I can easily flip open and close. A rooftop solution requires drilling of holes and neat wiring solution for the heavy wires. The idea anyway is not to rely on any one source but to diversify to 2 different sources: powered while car is running and solar so that every little bit counts (dual charging) and optimize the sources that are most useful (e.g., by increasing charging voltage or upsize solar panels).

P.S. Note the current setup power usage should be close to a single 5v camera dash-cam in parking mode. The benefit with a modem is that I can monitor whether its online (and working) instantly by checking in throughout the day and night.