Are VIOFO likely to release anything new any time soon? Looking beyond the A119 v3.

[Mio NoVue]

I have a pretty old Mio Mivue 618. I was considering a front+rear setup when someone on here suggested i wait on the VIOFO A129 Pro Duo that was due out soon at that time.

I've just spent a good hour looking at various threads, picture and video comparisons of the A119 v3, v2, A129, A129 Pro and to be honest i can't actually honestly say that i think any of the A129's are better than the A119 v3.

My main issue with my Mio camera is licence plate detection. I'd been holding out for something that was considerably better and i think the VIOFO A119 v3 does a good job. I tried a Nextbase 522GW and i'm at a loss as to how that features anywhere remotely near a 'best of' list unless the list if a best of overpriced tat list.

What i want to avoid is picking up the A119 v3 and then VIOFO roll out the new A### which trumps everything the following week. Is there anything else out there that's worth looking at? For 2CH i'd be in and about the £200 area.

I appreciate the A119 v3 is 1CH only and i know some people buy 2 but really since I already have the Mio Mivue 618 and I already have the memory cards then i was considering an option being just having that camera in the rear and hardwiring that in since it's already bought.

 

[kamkar]

Well with any camera you will find plenty of times of the day and days of the year, where plate capture will be a big problem with any camera, you can even run into that on the very best summer days the UK are likely to have.
But in ideal conditions almost any camera can do it.

Granted it would be exceedingly nice to have a plate capture if you experience a hit and run, but plate capture are not something you should focus too much on as it require a few things to come together for any camera.
If you get sideswiped at night and you have a runner, your best option will always be to see the plate yourself and call it out for the microphone to capture,,,, TBH even in the daytime it is not a bad habit to have.

I think anything new and exiting are going to be 4K, but most true 4K cameras today are using the same hardware or at least sensor, but new better 4K sensors would be interesting.

Lately i have been most exited about the 1440p cameras, often using the IMX 335 sensor from Sony, it is also in the A139 i am testing ( a pending 3 channel system from viofo )
But aside for it being 3 channel it is much like exiting viofo models, so image wise nothing new in that sense.

The A139 is my first time testing for viofo, so i am not aware of anything revolutionary coming from them, or anyone else for that matter, seem like it is still baby steps forward for the dashcam industry.

 

[Nigel]

I've just spent a good hour looking at various threads, picture and video comparisons of the A119 v3, v2, A129, A129 Pro and to be honest i can't actually honestly say that i think any of the A129's are better than the A119 v3.

Yes, the A119 V3 is very similar to the rest in terms of image quality. The difference is that it is 1 channel, the A129 is 2 channel, and the A139 is 3 channel. Also the A129 Pro is 4K while the rest all use the same 2K image sensor. The 4K has advantages in sunshine and disadvantages in the dark, I recommend it for movie making but not really for evidence purposes. Also note that the A119 doesn't have wifi, if you want to show your video to the police on site then it will not be so easy.

The A119 V3 is still reasonably up to date; of course there are always new cameras coming out, but the next is the A139, not a new A119.

 

[Mio NoVue]

If you get sideswiped at night and you have a runner, your best option will always be to see the plate yourself and call it out for the microphone to capture,,,, TBH even in the daytime it is not a bad habit to have.

See I actually do drive and mentally note registration plates as i go of anything looking suspicious. If something races up behind me then i look in the rear view and try and position myself so i can read the registration. Anything up ahead etc i do the same.
BUT the problem is, from personal experience unless you have absolute evidence and i mean cannot be disputed in the slightest, then is it even worth anything?

I was at a crossroads and a bin lorry turned down my lane. The path that he took was strange in that he was driving slightly towards me. The rear of his lorry took my side mirror. The mirror smashed as it folded against my door and the cover flew off.

The camera picks up this impact in the recording but only in audio. The cover flew to the back of the car so you don't see that. You hear me open and close the door. I then 3-point-turn and go chasing after him. I hadn't noticed until watching the video back though that as i drove back down the lane in tunnel-vision, he had pulled off on to some industrial like section and i completely missed him.

I contacted his company, i made out the registration plate.

My already long story cut short, they said there wasn't enough evidence. The driver denied he had hit me. I showed them my video and they said it proved nothing. I said can you explain the sound at xx:xx in the video then. They just said not enough evidence.

My brother is a HGV driver and has driven all manner of HGVs. I work with HGV drivers and i've spoken to them about this and shown some the video. True or not, i can't prove it, but many said that they'd be surprised if he didn't know he'd hit me. He'd at least have thought that's a bit close. I put the video on YouTube but nobody has even viewed it lol. Oh well.

So yeah - unless you have absolute proof is it even worth it?

Yes, the A119 V3 is very similar to the rest in terms of image quality. The difference is that it is 1 channel, the A129 is 2 channel, and the A139 is 3 channel. Also the A129 Pro is 4K while the rest all use the same 2K image sensor. The 4K has advantages in sunshine and disadvantages in the dark, I recommend it for movie making but not really for evidence purposes. Also note that the A119 doesn't have wifi, if you want to show your video to the police on site then it will not be so easy.

The A119 V3 is still reasonably up to date; of course there are always new cameras coming out, but the next is the A139, not a new A119.

Thanks. I've read a lot of posts from yourself actually which have been quite helpful.

I don't think i've personally experienced 4k recording but I had 1440p with that Netgear i mentioned. I have to say that 1080 vs 1440p was literally no difference to my eyes. I couldn't tell. 30fps, 60fps, it was all just terrible on that camera. I don't know if this is down to the hardware of the camera, the internals, the lens or who knows what, but i couldn't tell the difference. Whether i should be noticing a huge or minor difference i don't know.

 

[Nigel]

I have to say that 1080 vs 1440p was literally no difference to my eyes.

If it is done properly then 1440 gives twice the detail of 1080.
Of course you also need suitable viewing equipment/software.

30 vs 60fps is really insignificant for a dashcam, 60fps just looks a little smoother, but often lower quality.

I put the video on YouTube but nobody has even viewed it lol.

I'll have a look if you give us the link. If someone decides to fight then you do need evidence; sound evidence is valid though, so if it went to court then you would probably stand a chance, arguing with the insurance companies is not quite so easy, they just need to decide if it is worth the fight, and for them avoiding any legal costs is valuable!

 

[kamkar]

My take is, that every bit of tangible evidence you can provide, will be much better than any claim from the other part,,,,,, at least most times, but granted there are examples where for instance government workers word almost have de facto truth.

I have tested 2 similar cameras one with 30 FPS and the other with 60 FPS recording ( exposure settings auto ) i found no evidence that the 60 FPS camera was better in plate capture, if any it was very marginal.
So my at the time idea that 60 FPS must be the savior and future of dashcams had to be scrapped, nowadays i would be more inclined to think HDR would be better,,,,,, that is if anyone can make it work in dashcams which no one seem to have done yet, even though it have been claimed in some cameras for a while.

In general i view my cameras as protection against claims against me, the protected status of for instance cyclists here got me into dashcams in the first place, cuz i do not want to retake my license just becuz some suicidal idiot on a bicycle drove out in front of me and i run him over or just nudge him.
Other than that i must of course pay what i have coming, thats only natural.
So i see upon my cameras as logs of my own driving, and that any dashcam can do 100 % no matter the time of the day or the year, and all the other things it might capture are just icing on my cake, a cake i will throw in the face of anyone with outrageous claims against me, or for that matter just drive like a idiot, i have 2 times turned people in to the police,,,,, not that i think they did anything about it.

If i was driving along and someone coming up from behind, or going the other way for that matter, and not stopping, well i am crazy enough to pursue that idiot at least until i can get a firm plate reading.
And sadly now that i have become conflict seeking, i would probably try all i could to get him to stop and engage in a fist fight with me,,,,,,,,, which are pretty sad, but it is the case.

 

[Mtz]

Right now my advice is to buy A129 Plus. The A139 will be launched first as 3CH, then as 2CH and maybe someday as 1CH. A139 is bigger than A129 and if you want your camera to be more hidden then the A129 Plus is the option right now.
Until summer 2021 I expect the only launch to be the A139 model.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[Mio NoVue]

If it is done properly then 1440 gives twice the detail of 1080.
Of course you also need suitable viewing equipment/software

Yeah i appreciate that the 522GW may not be 'up to par'. It may be for all i know. I just thought it was a trash piece of kit.

What do you specifically mean by suitable viewing equipment/software? Can you give an example?

30 vs 60fps is really insignificant for a dashcam, 60fps just looks a little smoother, but often lower quality.

I noticed no real difference in the dashcam as i say. In fact the only time i have ever experienced 30fps vs 60fps comparison was in online gaming when a game i used to play used to be at 30fps and then they switched it to 60fps. The difference was night and day and took a little getting used to. The adjustment made the game a little harder/more sensitive for a short while.

I'll have a look if you give us the link. If someone decides to fight then you do need evidence; sound evidence is valid though, so if it went to court then you would probably stand a chance, arguing with the insurance companies is not quite so easy, they just need to decide if it is worth the fight, and for them avoiding any legal costs is valuable!

Yeah no problem. I searched Biffa on YouTube and a whole heap of stuff came up but not my video. I actually remember the guys reg plate so had to use that to find the video.

You're unbiased so maybe you think it's not concrete enough which is fine. I edited out the bit where i turned around and went after him (though i showed that to the insurance - as why would i do that for no reason kind of thing).
I suppose since it doesn't actually show the impact, you (his company) could say that the noise was a bird flying in to the car or a stone being kicked up and i turned around because i had decided to take another route or whatever.

Still, it also shows you the video quality of the Mio 618 i have. So any VIOFO will be a upgrade i would say - the 119v3 or the 129.

the protected status of for instance cyclists

Yes very true.
My wife caught a funny clip of a cyclist but it backs up what you say. She was driving along, under the speed limit and this cyclist in the dark goes to cut across her. She hits the brakes and he sort of does too but starts becoming unbalances and nearly falls off his bike as he puts his foot on the floor and skips along. These guys give other cyclists a bad name by just not paying attention.
And that's before we get started on those not 1) using lights 2) wearing anything reflective in the dark. I've seen so much of that lately.

What actually got me in to a dash cam was I was driving along one day, overtook a guy who didn't want to be overtaken. He turned in to me and tried to run me off the road. He was a local nutter. The outcome was the insurance said I was at fault because I was the one overtaking.
I said ok - next guy to overtake me i will run him off the road and it'll be his fault because he was overtaking, right? "We understand your frustration sir". No you don't, you couldn't care less.
Obviously i didn't run someone off the road.

FFWD about 6 years and this pickup truck overtakes the car behind me and tries to overtake me even though there is a car ahead of me who i am actually fairly close to. There is oncoming traffic so this pickup truck (i mean one of these, not the American Dodge Ram you may think of) turns in to me and clips my rear quarter.
I pull in to exchange details and he drives off.
I inform the insurance, i contact the police. I give the registration.

They acknowledge that the company are doing work in the area but they say they are based in London some 6 hours drive away. They contact the company and the driver of course denies ever having collided with anyone.

Case closed as far as they are concerned.

So someone hits me as i overtake - it's my fault.
Someone hits me as they try to overtake - they didn't do it.

When this stuff happens, you begin to understand why some people don't bother with insurance.

Right now my advice is to buy A129 Plus. The A139 will be launched first as 3CH, then as 2CH and maybe someday as 1CH. A139 is bigger than A129 and if you want your camera to be more hidden then the A129 Plus is the option right now.
Until summer 2021 I expect the only launch to be the A139 model.

enjoy,
Mtz

I took a look at the A139. I saw a guy on here do picture and video feedback on it. I have to say i was a little disappointed in the quality. I thought it would be much better than the A119v3.

Maybe we are only going to see minor improvements, if any, as time goes on, so small that we barely tell the difference until we've moved on 10 models and compare the latest to 10 models ago and go oh yeah.

 

[Mtz]

I took a look at the A139. I saw a guy on here do picture and video feedback on it. I have to say i was a little disappointed in the quality. I thought it would be much better than the A119v3.

Right now you will not find a much better camera compared to A119 V3 no matter if it is made by Viofo or another brand. A119 V3, A129 Plus or A139 can be considered equal judging by video quality. All have same 2K Sony CMOS, all have good quality lens made by Viofo.
But each A129 Plus and A139 have other specifications which make them a little better to buy instead of A119 V3.

Forget about FPS on dashcam, right now 30FPS is the best.

enjoy,
Mtz

 

[Nigel]

What do you specifically mean by suitable viewing equipment/software? Can you give an example?

Well, if you watch it on your phone screen then it is highly unlikely that you will see any difference unless you zoom in, which may not be possible depending on the viewing software.

You're unbiased so maybe you think it's not concrete enough which is fine.

You could have created that impact in a video editor very easily. The video itself doesn't suggest that there is going to be an impact. So I can see why they decided to argue. Not sure what a court would make of it, still seems like your word against his. If it had looked like there was going to be an impact then it would be different.

 

[Mio NoVue]

You could have created that impact in a video editor very easily. The video itself doesn't suggest that there is going to be an impact. So I can see why they decided to argue. Not sure what a court would make of it, still seems like your word against his. If it had looked like there was going to be an impact then it would be different.

I see where you're coming from.
As we have nothing to gain from each other on it, i imagine you also accept that it did actually happen.

I don't know if it's a problem with all dash cams, if it's based on the viewing angle or what but i've found many many instances that look totally different on camera than they do in person. I've had situations where i've thought hell fire that was really close. I'll take a look on the PC tonight and show the wife what i was talking about. Then when i play it back even when i look at it myself i'm thinking that looks like nothing at all ... even though it did in person. That's not to say it actually wasn't anything and i was overreacting. It's just the camera shows it different.
Like with that bin lorry, i look at it back and it doesn't accurately show how he was turning in to me in a way where the rear of his lorry was getting closer to my car than the front. As he came down i thought what's this guy up to, he could be pulling further to his left than what he is.

 

[Nigel]

I don't know if it's a problem with all dash cams, if it's based on the viewing angle or what but i've found many many instances that look totally different on camera than they do in person.

I think that dashcam is rather narrow angle, also seems like you are driving too fast. A wider angle would seem more natural.

As we have nothing to gain from each other on it, i imagine you also accept that it did actually happen.

I assume you are telling the truth, but just looking at the video I can't tell.

 

[Mio NoVue]

also seems like you are driving too fast.

But i was stationary at the point of impact??

Unless you're just 'generally speaking'? In which case in that clip probably not. I don't have to hit the brakes sharply at all. I do drive fast generally so good call from you on that one but it will depend on the conditions. If we're on a long A road that's 50, i'll do 60-62 without thinking about it. There's 2 or 3 really long stretches on my drive to work and i'll put my foot down, especially in a morning when it's quiet. What i don't do though is hang on another cars shoulder or fly round country bends. I've nearly been taken out a time or two on country bends by these people who "know this road like the back of my hand" ... yes you may, but you still can't see round a corner or what's coming at you from that corner.

I assume you are telling the truth, but just looking at the video I can't tell.

It's fine. You made a very good point about video editing. That actually never occurred to me at all believe it or not. Some times i'm too honest and i don't think how crafty people can be. As soon as you said that i thought - that, coupled with the fact that you don't SEE anything meant this was a non-starter from the very start.

 

[Nigel]

Unless you're just 'generally speaking'?

At the start of that clip, the road surface was wet and not very clean, it seemed too fast to be safe, but I assume it only appeared that way due to the narrow angle of the lens. You obviously know how to drive so I assume you were actually driving a suitable speed for the conditions.

that, coupled with the fact that you don't SEE anything meant this was a non-starter from the very start.

It is evidence, but it is only you that can verify that it is accurate and unedited, so it is your word against theirs. Better than not having evidence, but someone has to decide if it is you or them that is telling the truth, beyond reasonable doubt.

 

[SawMaster]

BUT the problem is, from personal experience unless you have absolute evidence and i mean cannot be disputed in the slightest, then is it even worth anything?

There is no "absolute" evidence other than an unprovoked admission of guilt; every other type of evidence can and should be questioned. Even a clear video recording of a plate can be questioned- we all have heard of "photoshop" It would be hard for anyone to cast doubt onto you speaking a plate number which clearly belongs to a vehicle of the type seen in your video, even if ten similar vehicles could have been in the area too. How would you have arrived at that precise plate number otherwise? Would you have hunted down that vehicle and plate beforehand so you could implicate them later on? And why would you have done that? To assert that the plate number you spoke wasn't the one on the type of vehicle your video shows would take a very long stretch of the imagination and would be seen as absurd by most reasonable people Plus you'll probably have at least some of the number visible at some point to back you, or other identifying marks like a bumper sticker, a dent, a light not working- something. If there was contact between vehicles there will likely be a matching indication of that on their vehicle too, even if just a small paint rub. And you may have some vid of the driver even if only to show a burly male versus a slender female who was driving the similar vehicle in the area..

So yes, speaking the plate number solidifies your video evidence considerably. And yes you can expect every form of evidence you submit to be questioned regardless. The system doesn't always work in your favor even when you're right but speaking a plate number greatly adds to the odds for you to come out on top. And as always, your dashcam is not what is protecting you- that is your insurance's job. The dashcam evidence is mostly a means that can be used to make sure the system works as it should in your favor provided you've done no wrong which it should also show for you Just remember it's like a double-edged sword and can work against you if you don't wield it well and carefully by always driving safely and within the laws.

Phil

 

[Kremmen]

That's good advice and a reason to have the mic active. Never thought of that before

 

[ursamajor]

Are VIOFO likely to release anything new any time soon?

More important is if they (or other manufacturer) will use (launch camera with) better (sensitive) sensors, because there are a few Sony Starvis better than the current ones. If they will use the same sensors... we have a word in my country, it will be the same Mary, with a different hat....

 

[Mio NoVue]

How would you have arrived at that precise plate number otherwise? Would you have hunted down that vehicle and plate beforehand so you could implicate them later on? And why would you have done that? To assert that the plate number you spoke wasn't the one on the type of vehicle your video shows would take a very long stretch of the imagination and would be seen as absurd by most reasonable people

But to take what Nigel said earlier and even yourself touched on it with your Photoshop comment....

What if I edited in me reading out that guys number plate?

Or not that specific incident. Just any incident. A black BMW hit me and i didn't get the plate but i also don't want to pay out of my own pocket. To take the suggestion of deviousness given earlier by Nigel, what's to say i didn't scour the local streets looking for the same colour, make & model car, get the reg and then edit in that soundclip?

Unlikely, yes. Surely it's also unlikely that i would edit in a soundclip of a side mirror being hit? Though i have no choice but to hold my hands up and admit, unfortunately it is not impossible.

 

[Nigel]

But to take what Nigel said earlier and even yourself touched on it with your Photoshop comment....

What if I edited in me reading out that guys number plate?

Or not that specific incident. Just any incident. A black BMW hit me and i didn't get the plate but i also don't want to pay out of my own pocket. To take the suggestion of deviousness given earlier by Nigel, what's to say i didn't scour the local streets looking for the same colour, make & model car, get the reg and then edit in that soundclip?

Unlikely, yes. Surely it's also unlikely that i would edit in a soundclip of a side mirror being hit? Though i have no choice but to hold my hands up and admit, unfortunately it is not impossible.

The evidence all adds up, the more the better. I think the main issue in you video is that the lorry doesn't look like it is going to hit you, it cleared the Land Rover in front with plenty of space to spare, so it doesn't look quite right that it hit you, there is some doubt there, but the more evidence you have the less the doubt, when it looks to be clearly their fault then their insurance will accept it without much of a fight.