Battery temperature..capacator option

petepete

petepete

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2014
Messages
1,212
Reaction score
459
Country
United Kingdom
Reading through posts,

You have me concerned about the risks of the high temperatures and dangers of opperating a battery dashcam in them as the battery is only rated to 45 degrees centigrade ( As a kid i remeber blowing a glass thermometer by leaving it on the rear parcel shelf of the car while traveling europe and doing a temperature journal )

Posts about the capacitor solution seem to suggest time and date are routinely lost which doesnt appeal as a solution...

Searching for a solution i came across a lithium thyonyl chloride battery that comes in half AA size at around $7 which is 3.7v and has a working temperature of up to 85 degrees centigrade.(1000mah)

Has there been any real world problems with damage from a dashcam battery failing or do they just stop working safely ?

Basically is it worth upgrading the battery for peace of mind ?
 
Last edited:
There have been lots of scare stories of lithium batteries bursting into flames.

But we are still allowed to carry mobile phones, tablets and even laptops on aeroplanes - that means the risks are very low.

Early lithium rechargeable batteries did have some problems but they have been improved.

I just can't find the evidence that the lithium batteries used in dashcams are unsuitable, or even that we should expect short lives due to the heat. They definitely don't like being recharged in freezing conditions, but modern ones have built in protection which prevents charging until they have warmed up. As for lifespan, the thing which shortens lifespan most is rapid charging, but a dashcam can charge the battery very slowly, after all it only uses 15 seconds of battery when you turn it off.

Just make sure your camera is shielded from direct overhead sun. It was direct radiation from the sun that killed your glass thermometer, not the air temperature in the car!
 
Cheers Nigel,

That clears that one up up for me as i have no direct sunlight.
 
petepete said:
Cheers Nigel,

That clears that one up up for me as i have no direct sunlight.
Click to expand...
I was expecting that someone would disagree, and hoping they would provide some evidence!...

I think a typical current generation battery will only allow itself to be charged between something like 0 and 40C and has a preferred discharge temperature of -20 to 60 but will work higher. Of course in normal use it is neither charging or discharging so neither specification is very relevant, it should be recharged by the time the camera warms up to full temperature. They will typically be tested to 130ish. Some lithium batteries will work at 200C but I guess the packaging on a normal one would melt long before that.

Of course if you buy a cheap camera then it is likely to have a cheap battery and cheap probably means poor quality.
 
Nigel said:
Of course if you buy a cheap camera then it is likely to have a cheap battery and cheap probably means poor quality.
Click to expand...
I got a cheap over priced piece of crap, DR500GW-HD, battery has gone in that, time is always 1-1-1970. got new battery on the way, only about 18 months old. so I guess they use cheap stuff or something like that, if it is the battery of course. time will tell.
 
Just be aware that you cannot recharge a lithium thionyl chloride type cell. That's what's called "lithium metal" primary cell and larger sizes (over 1g Lithium metal content) are heavily restricted for air shipping due to the risk of fire that cannot be extinguished with aircraft fire-fighting systems. Lithium Ion and derivatives like Lithium polymer are rechargeable and not as restricted as they are easier to extinguish if they catch fire.
I don't necessarily buy that a cheap camera is more likely to fail under high temps, that's a fundamental failing of Li-Po and frankly, all of them are going to come from the major suppliers in China. Supercaps really should be the ideal solution.
 
KiwiME said:
Supercaps really should be the ideal solution.
Click to expand...
Except that lithium batteries appear to be able to cope with higher temperatures. I've found lithium rechargeable batteries that operate at 200C and most seem to be tested to 130C yet supercaps tend to be rated to 65C with the highest I've found rated to 85C. Further more, if you operate your supercap at 65C then it will steadily loose capacity reducing it's lifespan while most lithium batteries seem happy with 65C. Supercaps do have an advantage in the cold since they go down to -40C while lithium only manages -20C and can't be recharged below 0C.

A comprehensive summary of supercaps: http://www.tecategroup.com/ultracapacitors-supercapacitors/ultracapacitor-FAQ.php
 
jokiin said:
which are those?
Click to expand...
It wasn't one you would put in a dashcam!

This patent references one that goes to 250C, but itself covers the full range you would want for a dashcam:
"The temperature at which the cell of the invention can be used may lie in the range −40° C. to +180° C.," - http://www.google.com/patents/US20060019164

No idea if anyone has put that into production but there are many ways to improve the temperature range of lithium rechargeables while supercap technology seems to be very fixed with 85C as absolute maximum with even 65C use loosing significant capacity over a couple of years use.
 
Have yet to see higher temp batteries available that would suit our need, doesn't mean it can't happen at some time though
 
jokiin said:
Have yet to see higher temp batteries available that would suit our need, doesn't mean it can't happen at some time though
Click to expand...
The point I was trying to make in post #2 was that I can't find the evidence that supercaps are actually performing better than lithium batteries in dashcams, they are both operating at temperatures which will reduce their lifespan but a lithium battery probably has a lot more spare capacity if you only need it for camera shutdown on loss of power. Where is the evidence of a problem?

The original question is more about safety and again I can't find any evidence for safety issues from either supercaps or lithium batteries.

Also, if you wire the camera to a permanent feed then why not just take the battery out as it's not needed... is it then safe/sensible to run a Mini 0803 24/7 ?
 
Current battery tech starts to lose stability at 45c, caps are safe up to their rated temps, the batteries will swell and become unstable if powered constantly, I wouldn't run an 0803 24/7, battery or not
 
Nigel said:
But we are still allowed to carry mobile phones, tablets and even laptops on aeroplanes - that means the risks are very low.
Click to expand...

Carrying a phone, tablet, and laptop on an airplane is safe, because airplanes do not get hot enough to be a problem. Passengers do not tolerate 45 C: they tend to riot or lose consciousness -- both of which are serious emergencies airlines could do without.

There are a few things things you can't do safely do to a lithium battery:
  • Over-charge
  • Over-discharge
  • Puncture the battery
  • Short-circuit the battery
  • Expose it high temperatures (ie. above 45 C)
Modern consumer electronics are required to have battery monitoring circuitry to make sure the charge & discharge requirements are met.

The batteries are 'protected' from puncture or short-circuit by being inside the device.

The interior of a parked car is a very different place than an airline's cabin.

For example: If the outside temp is 32 C (a cool summer day for me - 37 is more common):
  • In less than 20 minutes, the interior of a parked car can easily reach 49 C.
  • After an 90 minutes, it's 60 C.
  • According to the US's NTHSA, it's not unusual for the interior of a car to peak at 78 C if the external temp is around 37 C.
If you were to sit in your car in those conditions during office hours, you'd be dead before the evening commute starts; likely before lunch.

Lithium batteries don't fare much better.
 
i live in minnesota and my innovv c2 battery expanded and started leaking acid. luckily the plastic wrap on the battery kept it contained, but it IS an issue. it does not get that hot in Minnesota relative to the south US and it had only been mid 80's Fahrenheit that week. my car was probably cool from air conditioning, to sitting in the heat for about 45 min to an hour when it finally ruined my C2.
 
Totally urban legend for me.

Car is under 45 degree sun since months and 2 dashcam batteries still ok.

You should now believe all the stupid stories that you read online.
 
I had a Samoon 3H2F-D (GS6000-A7) which was one of the first A7LA50 and AR0330 cams (same as the Mini0803) and that had a thermal protection circuit - on a hot day it just shut down and wouldn't even power back on. When it did come back on it was seriously unstable.

If you're happy with resoldering batteries in place when something does go wrong you probably don't need to worry - but for people who want to buy something that requires no maintenance that's where the capacitor based ones are better.

As the batteries in these things go you'll get problems saving the last file too - that's the most important one if you have a crash and lose power.

All these things are is an insurance policy at the end of the day - the cheap cams are like cheap insurance policies.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
You must log in or register to reply here.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
G Internal battery not charging. Hardwiring and Batteries 0
S Battery for U3000 Hardwiring and Batteries 3
shalamigri Possible Way To Use Redarc BCDC1225D In Vehicle Charger With B-124x Dashcam Battery? Hardwiring and Batteries 0
A Was my external battery install done correctly? Hardwiring and Batteries 0
NicolasH31 VANTRUE N4 Pro : installation inside a Camper Van on lithium battery ? Hardwiring and Batteries 0
Similar threads
Internal battery not charging.
Battery for U3000
Possible Way To Use Redarc BCDC1225D In Vehicle Charger With B-124x Dashcam Battery?
Was my external battery install done correctly?
VANTRUE N4 Pro : installation inside a Camper Van on lithium battery ?
Back
Top