BMW's 360 Surround View

M Basta

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Pretty insane manifestation of what they've been refining over the years in other models. Oh, what car manufacturers could do for the dashcam industry if they ever got truly interested.

Forward to @8:25 and to @25:10

 
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SawMaster

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Nice, but it won't help the dashcam industry as we know it. A given car maker will a;most certainly out-source some of the components like the CMOS and lens, but the rest of the circuitry will be built into the car's existing computer modules or at least made as a discrete module by one of their currently preferred electronics suppliers, who AFAIK do not now have much involvement with dashcams. None of the business will go to our current aftermarket cam manufacturers unless they vie for a piece of that new market, and with most supplier contracts they would be prohibited from selling similar goods to anyone else actually lowering their sales :( And as more cars are delivered already cam-equipped, with each one will go a lost potential sale our current cam manufacturers could have possibly made. It will help public awareness regards dashcams which is a good thing :D It might even result in better cameras :cool:

Times change and only those who change with it will succeed in the end. Action cams will still have their market but our beloved dashcams as we know them will nearly cease to exist as car manufacturers eliminate their need in the near future :eek:

Phil
 

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Well i would prefer a car without any kind of wifi, and most of those gadgets i would never use anyway.

And it is sadly a BMW so like a product from the fruit company not something i would ever consider.

And prizes here for 5 series range from 85.230 USD for the cheapest 5 series to 227.300 USD for the most expensive 5 series GT
And while i would not mind spending such amounts of money on a car if i had money like dirt, then i would not go for any regular consumer grade car.
But if it was money i worked hard for, then i would not buy such a car in Denmark as i would feel the rest of the world would be laughing of me.

I would go for something the BMW would run circles around, but if the BMW stopped for just a few seconds i would run my ride over it and leave the BMW flattened and un-driveable.
And if the BMW driver got out in time and was really pissed and armed, well then i would let him empty a magazine or 2 on my ride, cuz im a nice guy and my ride would not matter a little copper-clad lead for breakfast.
 

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Very nice. But it does seem to be a case of being so busy trying to be clever that you forget to do what's genuinely useful. So many views looking AT the car as opposed to what's around it! How vain.
 

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I might be missing something but with all that tech did it actually have something as simple as an integrated front/rear dashcam? Something that all manufacturer's should really be including these days, even as a factory option.
 

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hehe yeah i laughed at the beemer being so in focus in the view.
So to me it come off as a how good is my BMW looking in the parkning lot, and thats just ????? to me cuz if people can not remember where they parked their car, well then they should not be driving as they will most likely remember nothing they learned when they got their license.

And that again make me think, BMW really know their customers it seem :p

I would love a nice poweerfull BMW, minus about 1/5 of its weight in gadgets and what not needed for a track day car, cuz no doubt BMW can make driving cars alright, but i would prefer to only be seen in one on the track.
Perhaps have a zombie proof trailer made for the track car, so i can tow it to the track in my day 2 day car.



BMW is just so,,,,,,, Mehhhh :rolleyes:
 
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M Basta

M Basta

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Nice, but it won't help the dashcam industry as we know it. A given car maker will a;most certainly out-source some of the components like the CMOS and lens, but the rest of the circuitry will be built into the car's existing computer modules or at least made as a discrete module by one of their currently preferred electronics suppliers, who AFAIK do not now have much involvement with dashcams. None of the business will go to our current aftermarket cam manufacturers unless they vie for a piece of that new market, and with most supplier contracts they would be prohibited from selling similar goods to anyone else actually lowering their sales :( And as more cars are delivered already cam-equipped, with each one will go a lost potential sale our current cam manufacturers could have possibly made. It will help public awareness regards dashcams which is a good thing :D It might even result in better cameras :cool:

Times change and only those who change with it will succeed in the end. Action cams will still have their market but our beloved dashcams as we know them will nearly cease to exist as car manufacturers eliminate their need in the near future :eek:

Phil

Yeah, I meant more as a benefit for the end-user and the segment as opposed to the current group of dashcam manufacturers. No doubt it would hurt them if these manufacturers decided to enter the space.

I might be missing something but with all that tech did it actually have something as simple as an integrated front/rear dashcam? Something that all manufacturer's should really be including these days, even as a factory option.

This current spec doesn't have dashcam functionality as we know it. Corvette did an OEM integrated dashcam a couple years ago, but it was mostly designed for track use if I recall correctly. Obviously, they could do it easily if they wanted to but I don't have any insight as to why they don't (maybe they don't think there's meanigful demand). BMW's particular configuration has 4+ cameras around the car and, currently at least, they seem to be mostly intended for autonomous driving, automatic parking, lane changes, visibility around blind corners, etc.
 
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It isn't a far stretch to have those 4 cams also record onto storage media at least as pre-buffered cams for emergency use only, thus serving somewhat as dashcams too. I believe that this is the next step the car makers will take in this area, and that it will then become popular with new car buyers at all price levels (at least as an option). When those cam-equipped new cars are resold, that will be the death-knell of the aftermarket dashcam. I am certainly biased here in my liking of dashcams, but I see that end-point happening within 10 years time.

If someone offered a manufacturer a better recording system than they have at a better price which could be easily integrated into their car's electronics they could build an empire for themselves such as Kenwood and Blaupunkt have done with high-end car audio systems which are factory-fitted in numerous car brands ;) I don't know if anyone is moving in that direction but if I were a large dashcam maker I'd certainly be looking into that possibility. Having their expertise with cams in cars already, they would be ahead of what the car makers could come up with themselves at that point :)

Those of us driving older or non-cam equipped cars will still be able to use action cams for our purposes, and as the market shifts there will be action cams offered which as designed to be more compatible with this role alongside their more mainstream designs to cover our small but present market. We will always have something, but what that something is will be changing in the future.

Someday one of us will be telling our great-grandchildren "I remember when cars didn't have cameras, and the ones we bought only recorded one day's worth of nasty video and awful audio compared to what you have now" :p

Phil
 

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Citroen are having a go at a dashcam, mostly marketed at the social media types but seems to have 'our kind' of functionality built in too.

http://www.citroen.co.uk/about-citroen/technology/connectedcam-citroen

I'm not so sure it'll be at all useful as a dash cam. Records only 20 secs of video when prompted by a button press. I think you'd have a very sore finger if you wanted anything significant out of it ;)

Seriously though, I wonder if it's a privacy issue that's preventing manufacturer's from installing cameras as standard.
 

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Tech fest? More like headache fest, if things start to malfunction, which they will because all technology is flawed.
I can already see a fly flying in front of the audio controls, messing with the volume and God knows what else, and the driver trying to shoo it away and making an even bigger mess. All of this while driving.
If BMW is doing this as an attempt to shake off the bad reputation its brand has by distracting drivers from driving, then it will be the proverbial "shot in the foot". :confused::D

I'm like @kamkar1. When I get in a car is to drive, not to be entertained or distracted by lots of things. I don't believe anyone can take any enjoyment out of all the gadgeterie that's inside that car. If I wanted entertainment, I'd set up a room in my house with a big screen, a BR player or a projector, a good audio system, both for cinema or music, and a nice chair or couch. I'd never do that while driving a motor vehicle.
 

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I'm not so sure it'll be at all useful as a dash cam. Records only 20 secs of video when prompted by a button press. I think you'd have a very sore finger if you wanted anything significant out of it
Yeah I agree it would be cumbersome. However, in an accident the car will automatically record 30 seconds before and 1 minute after the crash and since it is getting the "crash" signal direct from the car's computer, it should be more reliable than your average G-sensor. I like that one of the big manufacturers is at least having a go and hope that as a result, more will follow suit, even if only as an optional extra. I like BMW's 360 view thing though, that could be an awesome built in dashcam if only they had tried a little harder. Maybe model revisions or the next gen models will feature this.

I don't think the dashcam as we know it is going to disappear anytime soon. I got my first SatNav unit 10 years ago and most entry level cars still don't have them built in as standard. People are using SatNav apps on their phones and tablets now too but still, the classic SatNav units still sell. Given that some people only want the basics, I can't see our kind of dashcams dieing off for a long long time. The death of the classic SatNav will be a good indicator as to how long dashcams will have I think. Then again, SatNavs are just a screen with a CPU and a GPS chip so they don't go out of date in the same way cameras do. You can download new SatNav route data over the internet, you can't download a new CMOS sensor for your dashcam.
 

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Tech fest? More like headache fest, if things start to malfunction, which they will because all technology is flawed.
I can already see a fly flying in front of the audio controls, messing with the volume and God knows what else, and the driver trying to shoo it away and making an even bigger mess. All of this while driving.
If BMW is doing this as an attempt to shake off the bad reputation its brand has by distracting drivers from driving, then it will be the proverbial "shot in the foot". :confused::D

I'm like @kamkar1. When I get in a car is to drive, not to be entertained or distracted by lots of things. I don't believe anyone can take any enjoyment out of all the gadgeterie that's inside that car. If I wanted entertainment, I'd set up a room in my house with a big screen, a BR player or a projector, a good audio system, both for cinema or music, and a nice chair or couch. I'd never do that while driving a motor vehicle.
I really don't see a fly being able to interfere with gesture controls, not unless you try and swat it away :D

Also, what bad rep does BMW for distracting drivers? IMHO they have one of the most sombre interiors out there, nothing like the carnival of lights and colours that some of these Japenese or Korean have got.
 

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Yeah I agree it would be cumbersome. However, in an accident the car will automatically record 30 seconds before and 1 minute after the crash and since it is getting the "crash" signal direct from the car's computer, it should be more reliable than your average G-sensor
Not sure how it manages to record 30 secs before an accident "in the event of an accident", must be some Dr Who stuff going on then, either that or it's constantly recording, in which case why not make the full footage available.
 

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There's some comparison with SatNav's to be sure, but those are directly and commonly useful while dashcams are rarely used for their designed purpose and only directly helpful to the unlucky souls involved in a crash. People will spend freely on things they often use but not on things they believe they do not think that they need. If the public doesn't take to factory-installed cams on their own, we might see it become a requirement like the US car computers do now with vehicle data being saved in the time leading up to a crash. It might also be pushed along by the insurance companies like it has in Russia ;)

I'm sure it varies elsewhere but in the US there is almost no market for a truly basic car so almost none are built or sold. Even the cheapest models have power windows, A/C, rear-window de-icers, and all manner of other gadgets which are not critical to operating a vehicle safely and comfortably. Added up, all that stuff costs thousands, not the couple hundred (or less) that a comprehensive cam system would cost the manufacturer. And with the technology advancing as it is, the costs for something basic will drop making it senseless to not add it to every car here.

One of the problems with technology is that due to it's 'glamour' appeal, the people buy it without truly considering it's drawbacks. In my old van I never need to take my eyes off the road to do anything such as adjusting the radio or operating the defroster, lights, and wipers. All the controls are simple and operable by feel alone. The dashlights can be set as low as you want them without losing any ability to read any of the needed instruments. To my way of thinking this is a far better system than what newer vehicles have where you have to look at a touch-screen or have controls which must be seen to operate them correctly or a LCD display that illuminates far more than is necessary just because it looks better that way.

A good analogy here is to compare today's airplanes with those in the past. It once took only a stick, rudder pedals, and a few instruments to fly a plane and nearly anybody could get the hang of basic flying in minutes. Now planes are so complex that it takes many hours of intense training just to learn what you need to know before you even begin to consider what it takes to actually fly the plane. The worst are commercial airliners which are so complex that almost all of the pilot's attention has to go to deciphering what the plane is trying to do and compensate for that instead of flying. And the airlines not allowing manual flight time as a cost-cutting measure means that all the pilots are inexperienced at actually flying the plane should those complex systems fail (which at last parts of them very often do :eek: ) so that in a worst-case scenario you are worse off than you've ever been before.

Driving a car safely is simple and relatively easy as long as what it takes to do that remains equally simple. The more complexity you add the less easy it becomes to drive safely and the more likely it becomes that you will be in a crash because someone was not able to pay attention to their driving because of the car's needlessly over-complex design. Women gesture a lot by their nature and BMW is going to find that they are fighting a losing battle with nature through trying to increase simplicity by making it even more complex to learn and use. More crashes will occur when people inadvertently change a setting then need to look away from the road to rectify that. IMHO it more than one step in the wrong direction- it's a complete misunderstanding of what they are doing.

Phil

Far better to simply reduce complexity to a minimum at the start
 

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I often see BMW drivers mess with that toggle wheel that control the ICE and what not in the cars, only good thing is when i see it then its when im stopped alongside one at a intersection.
Myself i almost crashed due to messing with car stereo at the wrong time, other awake people in car yelled out cuz i wasent seeing nothing.
Voice control is nice, but we often see in top gear at least how good that work :D

It will be nice when cars drive them self, then you cant have enough "smart" stuff in them, not least for a long drive that would otherwise be mind boggling boring.
 

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There's some comparison with SatNav's to be sure, but those are directly and commonly useful while dashcams are rarely used for their designed purpose and only directly helpful to the unlucky souls involved in a crash. People will spend freely on things they often use but not on things they believe they do not think that they need. If the public doesn't take to factory-installed cams on their own, we might see it become a requirement like the US car computers do now with vehicle data being saved in the time leading up to a crash. It might also be pushed along by the insurance companies like it has in Russia ;)

I'm sure it varies elsewhere but in the US there is almost no market for a truly basic car so almost none are built or sold. Even the cheapest models have power windows, A/C, rear-window de-icers, and all manner of other gadgets which are not critical to operating a vehicle safely and comfortably. Added up, all that stuff costs thousands, not the couple hundred (or less) that a comprehensive cam system would cost the manufacturer. And with the technology advancing as it is, the costs for something basic will drop making it senseless to not add it to every car here.

One of the problems with technology is that due to it's 'glamour' appeal, the people buy it without truly considering it's drawbacks. In my old van I never need to take my eyes off the road to do anything such as adjusting the radio or operating the defroster, lights, and wipers. All the controls are simple and operable by feel alone. The dashlights can be set as low as you want them without losing any ability to read any of the needed instruments. To my way of thinking this is a far better system than what newer vehicles have where you have to look at a touch-screen or have controls which must be seen to operate them correctly or a LCD display that illuminates far more than is necessary just because it looks better that way.

A good analogy here is to compare today's airplanes with those in the past. It once took only a stick, rudder pedals, and a few instruments to fly a plane and nearly anybody could get the hang of basic flying in minutes. Now planes are so complex that it takes many hours of intense training just to learn what you need to know before you even begin to consider what it takes to actually fly the plane. The worst are commercial airliners which are so complex that almost all of the pilot's attention has to go to deciphering what the plane is trying to do and compensate for that instead of flying. And the airlines not allowing manual flight time as a cost-cutting measure means that all the pilots are inexperienced at actually flying the plane should those complex systems fail (which at last parts of them very often do :eek: ) so that in a worst-case scenario you are worse off than you've ever been before.

Driving a car safely is simple and relatively easy as long as what it takes to do that remains equally simple. The more complexity you add the less easy it becomes to drive safely and the more likely it becomes that you will be in a crash because someone was not able to pay attention to their driving because of the car's needlessly over-complex design. Women gesture a lot by their nature and BMW is going to find that they are fighting a losing battle with nature through trying to increase simplicity by making it even more complex to learn and use. More crashes will occur when people inadvertently change a setting then need to look away from the road to rectify that. IMHO it more than one step in the wrong direction- it's a complete misunderstanding of what they are doing.

Phil

Far better to simply reduce complexity to a minimum at the start
In other words: K.I.S.S! ;)
 

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Imagine the law suits if a big car manufacturer installed dash cams and they failed to record a crash. Why should they take the risk? Not much in it for them to make it worthwhile. They will wait until the technology is much more robust. SD card type memory was not actually created to be used for this kind of thing (live recording of high bandwidth streaming data), its limits are constantly being pushed. Maybe they will wait for something completely new, or at least major refinements to what we have.

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M Basta

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Imagine the law suits if a big car manufacturer installed dash cams and they failed to record a crash. Why should they take the risk? Not much in it for them to make it worthwhile. They will wait until the technology is much more robust. SD card type memory was not actually created to be used for this kind of thing (live recording of high bandwidth streaming data), its limits are constantly being pushed. Maybe they will wait for something completely new, or at least major refinements to what we have.

I don't get the sense that would be an issue. All they'd need is a little disclaimer that you'd have to agree to absolving them of any responsibility before the system could activate and that would be that. These guys are successfully navigating the self-driving and self-parking realms with aplomb, and those have far more legal complications than a little dashcam action would.

I have no idea why they don't, but my guess is cost vs demand. I'd guess the demand isn't high enough to justify the r&d and production costs resulting in a potentially costly option for a customer on a rapidly evolving technology when he/she could just buy the latest and greatest thing on the block for a $1-200 every couple years in the aftermarket.

I do agree that we'll likely see it in more and more cars as the tech is refined and the demand/awareness increases. At least two manufacturers already offer it in some capacity (Citroen and Chevrolet). Chevrolet intended their PDR (Performance Data Recorder) mostly for track use but there are people all over YouTube just using the thing as pretty much a dashcam (though doesn't appear to be a high quality one but could be great as a backup). Chevrolet even advertises how to sneakily record others through their "Valet mode" feature. Looking through their online manuals, there's not a word of legalese on anything...not even about recording others.


Edit: appears they did an update on Valet mode after becoming aware of the potential legal issues of recording people without their consent: http://www.corvetteblogger.com/2014...-use-the-pdrs-valet-mode-over-legal-concerns/
 
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I don't get the sense that would be an issue. All they'd need is a little disclaimer that you'd have to agree to absolving them of any responsibility before the system could activate and that would be that.

I don't see an issue either-- the driver is always the one responsible for their driving. If the vehicle manufacturer's dashcam failed to capture the crash, that doesn't make Chevy responsible for the crash.

What I would hope for, however, is improved self-test capabilities to be more widely implemented-- error messages for many common dashcam failure conditions:
-can't write to memory
-can't read from memory
-no signal from camera / camera unresponsive
-camera not recording
-etc.
 
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