Cam car insurance fail

[SawMaster]

Cammer erred by changing lanes without leaving a safe following distance ahead to the white car in the new lane. The Toyota was also following the white car too closely and appears to have accelerated in an attempt to prevent the cammer's lane change based on them being much further back before all took the exit. So I see split fault, but as the Toyota did not change lanes the cammer was the main cause of this crash because they entered an already occupied lane when it was not safe to do so

Phil

 

[Daffypuck]

In a nutshell, I was in the next to far right lane during rush hour bumper to bumper traffic moving at a crawl. The far right lane was ending. Passed 3 signs that indicated it. I lagged back from semi (which I had just let over) a little to allow folks over. After about 4 or 5 cars, I said enough! I closed my distance to truck in front of me to normal, which stranded a few cars in the ending right lane. They didnt like that, but its not my job to allow them over. I was courteous to several others and the they took advantage of my driving courtesy. The lane I was in was an exit lane. As we grew closer to the exit, I needed to get over in the left exit lane. I looked and was going to move over, but the white Lexus exited with no signal in to the lane. I almost made the decision to zip up in front of her, but didnt. I didnt wanna be an ass. So I waited for her to pass me. Right about when she passed me, I put my signal on to move over. I had a clear lane at least 8 car lengths. As I started moving over, the Infinity (who happened to be one of the ones I didnt let over earlier) decided he wanted to return the favor and floored it. The moment his front bumper was even with mine I was doing 31mph. Doing the math, (which I did, but cant recall the answer) he was doing approximately 42mph in order to overtake me on the shoulder. AT the distance he was when I started the lane change, he had to have accelerated up to at least 50mph trying not to let me over. Well, I called his bluff and didnt back off. I know, stupid move, but I did. As he was about to come over in front of me, I pitted him. He then brake checked me. He couldve easily avoided me, he was accelerating the entire time to close the distance on me while approaching a redlight. The responding police issued no citation to either of us. His insurance called me and I gave them my story, then my insurance called me and him as well. At first, becasue I was changing lanes, my insurance was going to pay him. Then I told them I had a video. After their attorneys looked at it, my agent said "Hell no we arent paying him!" So no claim went against my insurance and he had to pay for the damage to his car, which was minimal. My point of posting this was to show how different and difficult dashcam footage can be to interpret. I was willing to accept the blame, but in reality we both caused it by our hotheads and I feel justice was done. In hind sight, I know it was stupid for such a trivial thing. But I think we can all say that we sometimes get a bit irked while in traffic.

 

[Daffypuck]

just to be clear, they didn't deny his claim, just that he had to pay his excess (deductible) which is generally around $650

Why would his insurance have to pay? The SUVs should pay, they were at fault 100%

 

[Daffypuck]

Cammer erred by changing lanes without leaving a safe following distance ahead to the white car in the new lane. The Toyota was also following the white car too closely and appears to have accelerated in an attempt to prevent the cammer's lane change based on them being much further back before all took the exit. So I see split fault, but as the Toyota did not change lanes the cammer was the main cause of this crash because they entered an already occupied lane when it was not safe to do so

Phil

You are correct. One thing that you dont see is the Infiniti (Toyota) accelerating as to not allow me a lane change. When I checked my mirrors initially, he wasnt even there. Once I signaled, he floored it to be a prick and not let me over. I called his bluff and moved over. He couldve simply braked and stopped in well enough time, but he chose go around me on shoulder. Everyone else around us was going 23-30 at that point on the exit approaching a red light. He was going about 42MPH when passed me.

 

[jokiin]

Why would his insurance have to pay? The SUVs should pay, they were at fault 100%

it's not a clear cut case, without video he would have had to pay his excess regardless, you run into the back of someone that's just how it is, law says you must maintain enough distance for the circumstances at the time, if someone had just changed lanes in front of him there and stopped heavily and he hit them he'd be in the same situation still, I previously worked in the smash repair (body shop) industry for 12 years and dealt with insurers on a daily basis, have seen this same sort of thing many times

 

[SawMaster]

Yep, even with clear vids it's not always easy to tell what the whole situation is On letting other cars merge unto your lane, I've found that one for one (zipper merge) is the best way You're not greatly inconveniencing those behind you soc they can't have a beef and you have made allowance for those needing to merge sovthey can't have a beef either It's those drivers who DO have a beef when you do this that are the problem. It's not our job to enforce rules or force someone else to comply with them The best thing to do is to let these fools be fools away from you. One day they will get caught, hopefully by another hot-head who has a basebal bat waiting for them That fixes the first fool and jail will fix the second one.

Our job when driving is to arrive at our destination safely in an undamaged vehicle- everything else is secondary to that

Phil

 

[DashcamDPR]

it's not a clear cut case, without video he would have had to pay his excess regardless, you run into the back of someone that's just how it is, law says you must maintain enough distance for the circumstances at the time, if someone had just changed lanes in front of him there and stopped heavily and he hit them he'd be in the same situation still, I previously worked in the smash repair (body shop) industry for 12 years and dealt with insurers on a daily basis, have seen this same sort of thing many times

Without a rear cam it's not easy to prove what happened, but from the time of the lane change to the time of the Infiniti appearing is extremely short (he was going quick, that's clear) but it gives no real indication of how close he was to you as you changed lane, so purely from your video it definitely "looks" (and I would say also from an insurer's point of view) like you made an unsafe lane change

 

[flank]

At first, becasue I was changing lanes, my insurance was going to pay him. Then I told them I had a video. After their attorneys looked at it, my agent said "Hell no we arent paying him!" So no claim went against my insurance and he had to pay for the damage to his car, which was minimal.

I guess they ruled it a mutual combat.

 

[Daffypuck]

Yep, even with clear vids it's not always easy to tell what the whole situation is On letting other cars merge unto your lane, I've found that one for one (zipper merge) is the best way You're not greatly inconveniencing those behind you soc they can't have a beef and you have made allowance for those needing to merge sovthey can't have a beef either It's those drivers who DO have a beef when you do this that are the problem. It's not our job to enforce rules or force someone else to comply with them The best thing to do is to let these fools be fools away from you. One day they will get caught, hopefully by another hot-head who has a basebal bat waiting for them That fixes the first fool and jail will fix the second one.

Our job when driving is to arrive at our destination safely in an undamaged vehicle- everything else is secondary to that

Phil

There was no damage to my vehicle and the damage to his was minimal, but noticeable. I drive about 130,000 miles a year and have learned to be a much more patient driver not letting things get under my skin. But this one instant, it got under my skin and I made a conscious decision to do what I did. Stupid? Yes! Fullfilling? Most definitely.

 

[Daffypuck]

Without a rear cam it's not easy to prove what happened, but from the time of the lane change to the time of the Infiniti appearing is extremely short (he was going quick, that's clear) but it gives no real indication of how close he was to you as you changed lane, so purely from your video it definitely "looks" (and I would say also from an insurer's point of view) like you made an unsafe lane change

It wouldve been safe had he not floored it to cut me off. But think about it, had I not moved over, what was he going to do? Run up on the White Lexus at 50MPH approaching a red light and slam on his brakes? It was rush hour, bumper to bumper traffic moving at 25-30mph with one car doing 20-25mph above everyone else. IN the end, it is both our faults, but initiated by him. He couldve easily slowed and I couldve easily avoided hitting him. But yes, I have thought about a 2-channel cam.

 

[old4570]

Re - Daffy Post :

Over here the responsibility lies with the lane changer to change lanes safely ... ( Australia )
If it's not safe to change lanes , ur not supposed to !
A slow vehicle changing lanes into lane with faster vehicles ( Guess who's at fault here ) Dont know about there ... ( US - state )

So are you saying that U seen the faster vehicle ? And still cut his lunch ? Resulting in the fender bender ?
For those in Australia - I contacted the Road Traffic Authority - regarding just this sort of behavior ...
Changing lanes and the person in the other lane speeding up to cut you off .....
And the response from the RTA was - It's my responsibility to change lanes safely !
So obviously some people take advantage of the law as it is written ...
Bottom line is , you are responsible ! ( As to whether other people are ASS HOLES or what ever - the buck stops with the lane changer ) = Here in Victoria / Australia ...

 

[davecam]

that's why I run a rear cam aswell,we aint all angels out there but theres a sure lotta devils!

 

[DashcamDPR]

It wouldve been safe had he not floored it to cut me off. But think about it, had I not moved over, what was he going to do? Run up on the White Lexus at 50MPH approaching a red light and slam on his brakes? It was rush hour, bumper to bumper traffic moving at 25-30mph with one car doing 20-25mph above everyone else. IN the end, it is both our faults, but initiated by him. He couldve easily slowed and I couldve easily avoided hitting him. But yes, I have thought about a 2-channel cam.

Yes I'm just saying it would have been difficult to prove off just the front cam. As it is just the front cam, it doesn't "look" favourable. However... had you not moved over, maybe he still would have run up on the Lexus... and you would have been a witness, not an involved party, or maybe he wouldn't have run up the outside at all if cutting you off was his objective

 

[Nigel]

Yes I'm just saying it would have been difficult to prove off just the front cam. As it is just the front cam, it doesn't "look" favourable. However... had you not moved over, maybe he still would have run up on the Lexus... and you would have been a witness, not an involved party, or maybe he wouldn't have run up the outside at all if cutting you off was his objective

We don't actually see the silver car going any faster than the white Lexus. Immediately after the contact it's brakes are off it appears to be going the same speed as the white car, the brakes only come on when he decides to stop. We do see it going faster than the camera car, but so was the white car, the camera car doesn't accelerate when changing lanes so anyone behind doing the same speed as the white car would be inconvenienced.

According to Daffy's story, the silver car was 8 car lengths back when he changed lanes. I don't see how it got from that distance back to in front with the brakes off and doing a similar speed to the white car in the 2.5 seconds available without using rocket power and after-burners to both speed up and slow down again!

 

[Daffypuck]

Re - Daffy Post :

Over here the responsibility lies with the lane changer to change lanes safely ... ( Australia )
If it's not safe to change lanes , ur not supposed to !
A slow vehicle changing lanes into lane with faster vehicles ( Guess who's at fault here ) Dont know about there ... ( US - state )

So are you saying that U seen the faster vehicle ? And still cut his lunch ? Resulting in the fender bender ?
For those in Australia - I contacted the Road Traffic Authority - regarding just this sort of behavior ...
Changing lanes and the person in the other lane speeding up to cut you off .....
And the response from the RTA was - It's my responsibility to change lanes safely !
So obviously some people take advantage of the law as it is written ...
Bottom line is , you are responsible ! ( As to whether other people are ASS HOLES or what ever - the buck stops with the lane changer ) = Here in Victoria / Australia ...

Oh definitely my fault. When I looked to change lanes, he was still on the interstate. The moment I put my signal on, he accelerated. I called his bluff. He chose to assert himself because I called his bluff by passing on the shoulder. The moment he cut over in front of me, I purposely hit him. Thats the one thing that is so difficult to see in the video, unless you look for it. The way it happened looks different on camera. I was prepared to take the consequences of my actions. Definitely male machismo taking over. In the end, I won. My insurance refused to pay his claim based on the video.

 

[Nigel]

Thats the one thing that is so difficult to see in the video, unless you look for it. The way it happened looks different on camera.

I saw it the first time I watched the video, and then replayed it wondering if you really had done it deliberately or were just responding to an inevitable contact, decided that contact wasn't quite inevitable so it must have been deliberate. Could have ended a lot worse if he had spun into the other lane with traffic approaching fast. An expert would have analysed the video and found that you had caused the pileup.

 

[davecam]

you just admitted you purposely hit him?glad im half a world away from you man!

 

[Daffypuck]

I saw it the first time I watched the video, and then replayed it wondering if you really had done it deliberately or were just responding to an inevitable contact, decided that contact wasn't quite inevitable so it must have been deliberate. Could have ended a lot worse if he had spun into the other lane with traffic approaching fast. An expert would have analysed the video and found that you had caused the pileup.

It was a love tap. Our speed was nominal at that point and no pile up wouldve occured. It was a calculated risk, albeit stupid and out of anger, but calculated none the less. The wide angle of the cam, as we all know, really distorts speed and DOF. Contact easily couldve been avoided by both parties. There were no other vehicles immediately behind us at that moment. Once we pulled over, the Infiniti driver knew he was wrong and held his head in shame. The police issued no citation and we were on our way.

 

[Daffypuck]

you just admitted you purposely hit him?glad im half a world away from you man!

Yep, I was prepared to own up to my actions. It was a calculated decision, albeit stupid. Thats why we pay for insurance. It was the first incident Ive ever been involved in over 30 yrs of driving. Will I ever do it again? Nope, never! It was nothing more than stop and go love tap on an exit approaching a red light. Again, I know it was stupid, but I own up to my actions and have no regrets.