dash cam can't see the cars on my left & right at 4-way stop sign intersection?

J

Jaranson

Guest
I'm still a newbie to dash cams....

While watching a random clip that my dash cam captured, I noticed something...
my dash cam can't see the cars on my left & right at 4-way stop signs.

In the first screenshot below, I'm coming up to this 4-way stop sign intersection.
The cars on the left and right(not visible in the video) are also pulling up to the
stop signs. They came to a stop just before I pulled up to the white line.
I let them go first because they got there before me.


However, those two cars are not visible in either screenshot. What if one
of those two cars did not stop and T-boned me? How will I prove that I
got there first and the other car did not stop at the stop sign?

The dash cam has a 140-degreen wide-angle lens, according to the specs.
How can I measure it to see if they're correct or not?



20 feet from the stop, moving up at about 5mph... the SUV in front of me is completely stopped
Oe8CPYa.jpg


this is when the front of my bumper is at the white line, fully stopped.
bTdeHV9.jpg
 
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Jaranson, what brand / model dash cam you have?
 
It's a trade-off, wider view and details including licence plate numbers appear smaller in the image. So you need to trade-off seeing more of the sides versus capturing less detail.

Your question brings up a thought, that the camera shouldn't substitute for defensive driving. If it was my turn through a 4-way stop, I'd be watching the traffic coming up on the other 3 approaches. The sight lines look good at that intersection for quite a distance. If it looks like someone wasn't going to stop and it was my turn to go, I'd stop as a precaution anyways. I did this last week, approaching an intersection I watched an SUV approaching on a cross street, he had a stop sign but at his velocity it didn't look like he was going to stop. He slowed a bit but didn't look like he was going to stop. In the end he didn't, just sailed right through his stop sign. I had stopped part way through the intersection in anticipation that he might not stop and he rolled right past in front of me. I wasn't going to assert my right of way. I would say the dash cam is a witness but shouldn't be part of defensive driving. My thinking is there's no point in proving you had right of way if you're dead or injured or less worse, your car is damaged. So back to your intersection I wouldn't worry about capturing drivers stopping at the cross streets, if they don't you're already in control by anticipating what they might do and have taken precautions. Watching some of the Russian dash cam videos, some of the crashes seem avoidable (but we don't see the videos of close calls where the collision was avoided).

There's another post in these forums about whether or not to record audio inside the car. You can use that to your advantage and give a commentary, something like "uh oh, doesn't look like that guy is going to stop". Not visual but something to augment the video of a collision you couldn't avoid.
 
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It's a trade-off, wider view and details including licence plate numbers appear smaller in the image. So you need to trade-off seeing more of the sides versus capturing less detail.

Your question brings up a thought, that the camera shouldn't substitute for defensive driving. If it was my turn through a 4-way stop, I'd be watching the traffic coming up on the other 3 approaches. The sight lines look good at that intersection for quite a distance. If it looks like someone wasn't going to stop and it was my turn to go, I'd stop as a precaution anyways. I did this last week, approaching an intersection I watched an SUV approaching on a cross street, he had a stop sign but at his velocity it didn't look like he was going to stop. He slowed a bit but didn't look like he was going to stop. In the end he didn't, just sailed right through his stop sign. I had stopped part way through the intersection in anticipation that he might not stop and he rolled right past in front of me. I wasn't going to assert my right of way. I would say the dash cam is a witness but shouldn't be part of defensive driving. My thinking is there's no point in proving you had right of way if you're dead or injured or less worse, your car is damaged. So back to your intersection I wouldn't worry about capturing drivers stopping at the cross streets, if they don't you're already in control by anticipating what they might do and have taken precautions. Watching some of the Russian dash cam videos, some of the crashes seem avoidable (but we don't see the videos of close calls where the collision was avoided).

There's another post in these forums about whether or not to record audio inside the car. You can use that to your advantage and give a commentary, something like "uh oh, doesn't look like that guy is going to stop". Not visual but something to augment the video of a collision you couldn't avoid.

I was a pasenger in a car where the driver didn't stop at a 4-way stop sign. When I challenged her, she replied (in all sincerity) that she didn't need to stop because the other person would. I asked her what would happen if the other driver thought the same.

You have to assume that the other driver is as thick as pigsh@t because some are.
 
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I think that sums up in one sentence why we are all here discussing our car cameras and why we have them.

Im just going to order my t-shirt with that on now and hopefully a bumper sticker..... :p

:) When I say "didn't stop", I mean she didn't stop or even slow down. It was one of those moments where you ask yourself "Did that really just happen?"

Whenever she joined a road after a stop e.g. for fuel or a bite to eat, she would always ask which way to go. Every time. Every bloody time. "The wheel is turning but the hamster is dead".
 
I was a pasenger in a car where the driver didn't stop at a 4-way stop sign. When I challenged her, she replied (in all sincerity) that she didn't need to stop because the other person would.
That's one of the most crazy things i have ever herd. I have been a passenger with drivers who do not come to a completely full stop, (What some call a California Stop) or maybe honestly not see a stop sign covered by an untrimmed tree in an area they have never been to. I also have been yelled at by a passenger when i was driving because I would come to a complete stop at every stop even on side streets because you are supposed to stop at a stop sign, but to see, completely ignore, and then defend that it is OK to do it because you assume other people will not break the law or stop for you is a little asinine.

Your friend is not the only one that does it too. As crazy as it sounds i had seen a clip of Canada's Worst Driver Season 6 where a woman named Dale would completely run red lights and stop signs on a daily basis.
 
That's one of the most crazy things i have ever herd. I have been a passenger with drivers who do not come to a completely full stop, (What some call a California Stop) or maybe honestly not see a stop sign covered by an untrimmed tree in an area they have never been to. I also have been yelled at by a passenger when i was driving because I would come to a complete stop at every stop even on side streets because you are supposed to stop at a stop sign, but to see, completely ignore, and then defend that it is OK to do it because you assume other people will not break the law or stop for you is a little asinine.

Your friend is not the only one that does it too. As crazy as it sounds i had seen a clip of Canada's Worst Driver Season 6 where a woman named Dale would completely run red lights and stop signs on a daily basis.

Not my friend! Not my friend! (But it's a fair assumption). Once the journey was over, I gratefully never travelled with her again. With a mind like that, you can imagine what her company was like.
 
Forgive me for assuming. Sucks to see such careless people out on the road though.
I'm also curious to know what kind of camera Jaranson has that time stamp does not look familiar.
 
Forgive me for assuming. Sucks to see such careless people out on the road though.
I'm also curious to know what kind of camera Jaranson has that time stamp does not look familiar.

That's terribly kind of you and hey, don't worry. I only pointed that out as you are judged by the company you keep.
 
It's on my wishlist for a better dashcam.
DVR with 4 remote lenses.
Something I have mentioned in one or two threads, also a thread I started regarding the 'flash for cash' scam - someone 'flashes' you to let you out onto a main road, they then smash into the side of you, claiming for all sorts of silly things & stating, quite categorically, that they did not flash you.

Actually, in my car I use the F70 dual cam - the main cam is only 720. Not fantastic but not ropey either.
Maybe buy two of these & install the main cams front & rear & install the remote lens for each cam in one of your front, side windows.
Bit of a PITA I know but at least you get all round coverage.
 
It's on my wishlist for a better dashcam.
DVR with 4 remote lenses.
Something I have mentioned in one or two threads, also a thread I started regarding the 'flash for cash' scam - someone 'flashes' you to let you out onto a main road, they then smash into the side of you, claiming for all sorts of silly things & stating, quite categorically, that they did not flash you.

Actually, in my car I use the F70 dual cam - the main cam is only 720. Not fantastic but not ropey either.
Maybe buy two of these & install the main cams front & rear & install the remote lens for each cam in one of your front, side windows.
Bit of a PITA I know but at least you get all round coverage.

I've never heard of it so I just googled it. Thanks for the tip.

Have you heard about sliders at petrol stations? I consider myself scam aware but I can see myself being caught out by this one.
 
Some lens angle view samples / comparisons from popular dash cams

Top letf - Mobius
Top rgiht - Dod LS300W
Bottom centre - Panorama2 ( 154 degree lens diagonal ).

Mobius vs LS300W vs Panorama2 Powerucc (12).jpg
Mobius vs LS300W vs Panorama2 Powerucc (11).jpg
 
I just found a video on their YouTube channel and it looks amazing, even at night. At first I thought 160-degree lens would be ridiculous but I'm surprised at how good it looks. Also, their iOS and Android app is sooo neat. :cool: Anyway, here's the video I mentioned earlier:


First of all, - never fully trust YouTube due to compression rate. Not always you get what you see on youtube.
Second,- most important: Never trust videos made on the streets with a lot of ambient light ( shops, buildings, flashy advertisements etc. ), - this will not show you the real capabilities of dash camera.
For obviouse reasons ( not only Vico, but all other manufacturers as well ), they record day / night scenes in perfect conditions, which is not the way to judge real dash camera capabilities.
I don't want to say WF1 is bad, - not at all. From the past we know this brand is capable of producing descent dash cams, but true final conclusions can be made if video recorded in the everyday normal driving, and best if compare side by side with other dash cams.
 
All well and good having these wide angle lenses but those two widest ones only show more of the car's framework (the door pillars?).
I'd far sooner have something that 'just' or almost covers the screen & let some small lenses cover the sides.
In the pics above, YES, the panorama shows more but I'm sure there is some loss in there - those number plate pics are OK because the plate is more or less central to the camera
 
I've never heard of it so I just googled it. Thanks for the tip.

Have you heard about sliders at petrol stations? I consider myself scam aware but I can see myself being caught out by this one.
Oh Jeez - another stupid trend due to hit our shores? no doubt some lowlife will spot this & try to imitate it over here?
 
Oh Jeez - another stupid trend due to hit our shores? no doubt some lowlife will spot this & try to imitate it over here?

Yep, looks like the slider/sider scam is already here, the news report was from US broadcaster NBC and the story is from NYC.

Squid, curious, which side of the car is the petrol filler on UK cars? Many North American cars have the filler cap on the left (driver's side on left hand drive cars) for convenience when at the pump. Is it opposite in the UK, on the right hand side, on the driver's side? Some European cars sold in North America put the filler door on the right side so if you run out of gas and are on the side of the road pouring from a Jerry can you are out of traffic. That reminds me of a driver on the side of the highway pouring from a Jerry can, I could see him in the distance kicking his legs up, when I got closer, the shoulder was narrow and the width of his SUV put him and his gas can in the travel lane to the left and he was trying to get other drivers going by at 100 km/h to not come so close to him. A dangerous situation. Dumb thing was other drivers weren't slowing down or moving over, just whizzing past this guy quite close to him like they didn't care.

But good article, I need to think about what's accessible when I'm gassing up, I'm standing on the right hand side of the car with my driver's window on the other side of the car, usually open in the summer. At a minimum, GPS and cellphone are visible and easily accessible. Too bad many dash cams shut down when the ignition is off so won't capture a side door thief driving up or away.
 
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I hate to totally highjack the thread, but in effort to get a little information and tips out here we go.

I've never heard of it so I just googled it. Thanks for the tip.
Have you heard about sliders at petrol stations? I consider myself scam aware but I can see myself being caught out by this one.

I have not herd of this yet so thank you for posting that. I ALWAYS try to make sure that when i leave my car to pump gas I take my phone, keys and take off any GPS that might have been on my windscreen. The only thing that stays up and on is my DashCam.

My brother gets mad at me because when he drives one of his cars if he gets out to pump and i decide to get out to stretch, BS with him about the gas, or walk in to buy a drink I ALWAYS make sure to grab his keys out of the ignition. He thinks it is a bit of a hassle to wait until i come back in 2 min, but while i know it not super likely to happen you never know who might try to steal keys out of the ignition of a car or even worse try to steal the car. I know it would be a little more work then a purse, but with someones back turned especially in a nicer car you never know what might happen.

I just found a video on their YouTube channel and it looks amazing, even at night. At first I thought 160-degree lens would be ridiculous but I'm surprised at how good it looks.
I have the non WiFi TF2 and while it looks rather good at night i don't know that it looks THAT good. Also a member here has one and for the time being or at least at the time of there post it looked worse then my TF2 at night, but the WiFi bit does look interesting. member JazJon has one and it is looking better and better as software updates get released.
 
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Have you heard about sliders at petrol stations? I consider myself scam aware but I can see myself being caught out by this one.

Wow good to know!

All well and good having these wide angle lenses but those two widest ones only show more of the car's framework (the door pillars?).
I'd far sooner have something that 'just' or almost covers the screen & let some small lenses cover the sides.
In the pics above, YES, the panorama shows more but I'm sure there is some loss in there - those number plate pics are OK because the plate is more or less central to the camera

Yes I can see where TOO wide is a bad thing. My lil Smart Car has a rather nice wide window. With no front to get in the way my videos look like they are floating in mid-air down the road. 160 degrees actually gives me perfect and complete coverage. It shows a hint of my frame (aka tridion safety cell), but just barely. I can still read the plates of cars I drive by at the extreme edges just fine. I'll post some samples soon. WDR is pretty good. The new A7L-A based systems will have enhanced SUPER WDR though.
http://www.ambarella.com/products/automotive-camera-solutions.html
WiFi will be able to stream live/recorded shows without stopping the active recording in progress as well. (can't do that with WF1)

I have the non WiFi TF2 and while it looks rather good at night i don't know that it looks THAT good. Also a member here has one and for the time being or at least at the time of there post it looked worse then my TF2 at night, but the WiFi bit does look interesting. member JazJon has one and it is looking better and better as software updates get released.

Yes latest firmware added further enhancements. haven't had a chance to put my new WF1 through the paces yet, but I'll post more info ASAP.
I made a few posts and created a running wish list in the Vicovation section.
http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/forums/vicovation.25/
 
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