does anyone know why dashcam does not come with IR cut filters?

[OJOCam]

I am wondering why dash cam does not come with IR cut filter to improve low light performance.

 

[Sungmoon Jang]

Hi, all dashcam has ir filter inside. Just CCD has not ir filter sometimes. If there is no ir filter, color will be changed.

 

[OJOCam]

Thanks Sungmoon. The IR filter removes IR lights during the daytime which makes sense. But at night, should the IR filter be removed so that the low light sensitivity is improved?

 

[jokiin]

It's internal to the lens, you can't remove it

 

[OJOCam]

Understood Jokiin. Maybe it should come with removable IR filter.

By the way, i saw the other thread mentioning the 360 camera - Center. Very cool and elegant!

 

[jokiin]

Problem with having removable filters is people forget to remove or replace them, leaving it on is no big deal, not having it there during the day though would be a bigger problem

 

[FourEyes]

OJOCam, some actually do. Carcam Q5 for example

See that lever in the upper left picture, it moves the filter out of the way. IR illumination does work quite well on this model too with filter off. There's also a V1000GS variety on aliexpress having the same feature, IR filter on/off lever.

 

[Sungmoon Jang]

Good idea. But who will do manual every time. Can do automatic also. Before I consider to put on panorama. Just delayed cause of other project. Who know someday launched.

 

[kamkar]

I guess dashcams could be made like cctv cameras with mecanical IR cut on/off, and to my knowlege it dont take up that much room between the CMOS and lens.
I myself have been arguing for this as i think if dashcams only have to Work Black & White at night the footage might be better albeit only in B&W.

I have this kind of IR filter in 2 of my cctv cameras, and every night and morning i can hear them change position with a loud click.

Hell we might get termal view soon, to my knowlege FLIR come out with termal cameras at consumer level prizes next year, maybe ther CMOS chips will find ther way over in dashcams as a second forward facing kamera.

I am thinking dual cam but facing front, and then have termal overlay on the Picture from the regular camera, this could aid in detection of things in front of the car in fog and so on.

 

[Dashmellow]

I've had the same thoughts about using mechanical IR cut filter in dash cams. I don't think it would be too hard to implement in the same way it is done in CCTV cameras where the filter mechanism and solenoid module is integrated into the lens module and functions automatically when the light levels drop to a set lux level. It would work best if the dash cam switched to B&W at night as @kamkar1 suggests. The problem, however is that doing this in dash cams probably wouldn't work too well because the conditions that dash-cams have to function in with constantly shifting conditions, fast moving vehicles, oncoming car headlights, streetlights and illuminated signage are so different than in fixed CCTV security cameras. CCTV cameras that can see in total darkness also often have problems with blooming of bright car headlights and can have much difficulty capturing detail of fast moving objects. To make matters worse, the automatic sensor operated IR cut filters on CCTV cameras are designed to work in concert with arrays of built-in IR illuminators which would be impractical and unusable on dash-cams. I believe that an IR cut filter alone would probably have limited value in automotive settings and might introduce a whole new set of problems that would have to be dealt with.

Here's a photo of an automatic mechanical IR filter module from a fixed CCTV camera.

 

[gokumars]

So it's a long way down the track but, I'm looking at SG9663DCPRO and it lists the IR cut filter as part of the lens, @jokiin can you tell me if this is true? Can this lens be ordered separately if I attempt to remove it and damage the lens? Can it be ordered without that IR cut? Anyone experiment with IR illuminators? For those with headlight glare, you can filter headlights out using appropriate spectral filters, at the cost of losing those colours from all our sources.

 

[kamkar]

Yes the IR cut filter are in the inner end of the lens on most dashcams and action cameras, only CCTV cameras use a active IR filter.

The B2W however do also have a active cut IR filter on its cabin camera, and change to B&W mode at night just like a proper CCTV camera.
And this is just fine for filming the cabin, but turn it 180 degrees and the IR LED's will just blind the camera as they reflect off your windscreen.
And so you probably have something like this to look at.

Also the weak IR leds on dashcams are not having a reach more then a few M at the best.

You will have no problem finding a replacement lens with no ir cut filter, these CCTV lenses are sold all over the internet.

Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com

Buy Products Online from China Wholesalers at Aliexpress.com

Are used by dashcam people for lenses with or without IR cut filters

NO IR filter and daytime footage will look bad, and night time too as most dashcams remain in color mode and dont change to B&W mode like a CCTV camera do

 

[kamkar]

Street guardian are working on a proper Cabin camera with IR light and i assume a active IR cut filter, but it is not out just yet

 

[Matt_V939]

If you want to play with no IR lense + and a mobius, there is this thread....

Mobius Varifocal Zoom IR

For quite some time I'd been noticing an interesting M12 zoom lens on Banggood selling at a very attractive price and finally went ahead and ordered one. This is a fast ƒ1.4 - 2.8mm to 12mm Varifocal manual zoom designed for CCTV cameras that will accommodate a 1/3 inch sensor and captures an...

dashcamtalk.com

 

[jokiin]

So it's a long way down the track but, I'm looking at SG9663DCPRO and it lists the IR cut filter as part of the lens, @jokiin can you tell me if this is true? Can this lens be ordered separately if I attempt to remove it and damage the lens? Can it be ordered without that IR cut? Anyone experiment with IR illuminators? For those with headlight glare, you can filter headlights out using appropriate spectral filters, at the cost of losing those colours from all our sources.

the lenses have IR cut filters on all models, that's standard across the industry also, if they didn't the colours would be all over the place, the only exception to that is some interior use cameras that have IR lights, for that to work you can't have an IR cut filter

 

[Dashmellow]

So it's a long way down the track but, I'm looking at SG9663DCPRO and it lists the IR cut filter as part of the lens, @jokiin can you tell me if this is true? Can this lens be ordered separately if I attempt to remove it and damage the lens? Can it be ordered without that IR cut? Anyone experiment with IR illuminators? For those with headlight glare, you can filter headlights out using appropriate spectral filters, at the cost of losing those colours from all our sources.

Street Guardian won't be able to sell you a camera without an IR-cut filter on the lens but you if are handy with DIY projects you can always install your own non-IR cut filter lens on a Street Guardian camera. Quite a few of us here on DCT have experimented with aftermarket lenses with excellent success. I can recommend purchasing from Treeye on AliExpress, as many of us have. They are trustworthy, friendly sellers who can provide most any sort of M12 dash cam lenses you may require, with or without IR cut filters installed. There are a few other trusted sellers to recommend as well. I'm sure many folks here will be happy to share experiences and techniques for removing lenses already factory installed in cameras and installing new ones.

Although about a different camera (the Mobius) check out this thread - Mobius Telephoto Dashcam, where you will find a lot of helpful information and interesting discussion on the topic of working with aftermarket lenses.

 

[Matt_V939]

On a rather separate note, check this out playing with settings for low light

 

[gokumars]

Thanks everyone for the help. I've done some experimentation since with large IR illuminaters, various lenses and sensors. From what I've learnt, a good lens helps a lot, IR illuminators have to be huge to have any real effect given the low sensitivity of most silicon based image sensors/or closest to the peak of the Quantum efficiency graph, while still being IR (hence why they work so well in daylight), unfortunately, you can tune a good IR camera well, but at the degradation of day time vision. One last thought, using SWIR or large high speed cameras (work in low light well due to large absorbers), has anyone tried these or FIR such as thermal?

 

[SawMaster]

You might be interested in THIS DCT thread.

Phil

 

[gokumars]

Cheers all, back burner for now