Dutch train/bus accident.

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NOS is the main Dutch public television and radio broadcaster.
There were no passengers on the bus. There were no injuries among the train passengers either. The driver was outside waving his arms to warn the approaching train. You maybe able to make him out near left the red flashing signals.
The bus was on the crossing possibly due to a technical defect on the bus, police said. It is being investigated.
 
If trains could stop in the distance that busses can stop, then that wouldn't have happened... why don't they make trains that can stop in reasonable distances?
 
Trains have disadvantages to stopping. ( also getting up to speed )
1: they have low friction contact with the " road " surface, in this case metal wheels against metal track, a slight + is they have many wheels to brake on.
2: Trains are often heavy, so stopping a large weight at a given speed take more effort or distance than stopping a smaller weight at the same speed.

A 1.5 ton car going 80 kmh VS a 40 ton semi at the same speed, the truck will need much more distance to come to a stop.

I have seen videos, for instance with a intersection a few car lengths from a railroad track, so if people / trucks are stopped by red light, and a train are coming, you are in trouble.
Another issue i have seen a few times are break downs on a train track, again if you are not rational / have no help to push the car, you are screwed and all you can do is evacuate your vehicle ASAP.
There are also some American town, with a train line strait down the middle of main street,,,,,,, that was probably okay in the wild west days, it is pretty much insane its still that way.
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My silly mind tell me that MAGLEV trains might be able to brake faster as you should be able to reverse the magnets and use them to stop, we have all tried to push 2 similar magnet poles together.

And don't get me started on all the boat in marina crashes where the new boat owner forget there are no brakes on a boat only reverse gear, here you will often see people doing massive damage with their boat, in some cases end up on top of another boat as a boats pointy front tend to want to climb obstacles.
Boats though they have a pretty high resistance in water, well a huge panamax ship if you just put it in neutral even with a massive propeller acting as a brake of sorts, well the stopping distance are still nautical miles then. the turn radius at speed are also horrific, so don't put your little dingy in front of a big ship, cuz it can not stop fast and it can not turn fast.
Big ships stopped can often turn on a dime using their thrusters, but at speed they are completely useless.

In the mid 80ties visiting the French national railroads, and seeing video on their fast trains, some times ( in testing at least ) the wheels wouldn't even touch the track,,,,, so back to the drawing board CUZ that's no good at 280 kmh which they drove back then as i recall.
 
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Trains have disadvantages to stopping. ( also getting up to speed )
1: they have low friction contact with the " road " surface, in this case metal wheels against metal track, a slight + is they have many wheels to brake on.
2: Trains are often heavy, so stopping a large weight at a given speed take more effort than stopping a smaller weight at the same speed.
1. Then add some high friction contact for emergency braking use only. Even if it was only single use, it would still solve problems like this and be cheaper to replace than a bus, the front of the train, and the driver!

2. Then make the trains lightweight, no good reason why the train should weigh more per person than the bus, and think of the fuel saving as we attempt to achieve net zero.

A 1.5 ton car going 80 kmh VS a 40 ton semi at the same speed, the truck will need much more distance to come to a stop.
That is not really true, not due to the laws of physics anyway.

The main reason is that the truck is fitted with slow acting air brakes, if it was fitted with hydraulic brakes then the distances would be about the same... assuming that the brake lines had been properly bled after attaching the trailer! Should be possible to have an electronic brake coupling these days though, so no problem with bleeding hydraulic brakes.

The semi does also have the disadvantage of potential jackknifing, and if it is stopping from high speed then there is the issue of the tyres and brake pads losing grip as they start to overheat, so yes, in practice the truck tends to stop a little slower than a car, but it is not a big difference, even the official figures have it well less than twice the distance, which is compensated for by lower speed limits for trucks with air brakes.

There are also some American town, with a train line strait down the middle of main street,,,,,,, that was probably okay in the wild west days, it is pretty much insane its still that way.

Not long since we got a new one of them near here!
They even drive them on the wrong side of the road!
But at least they do stop the traffic while they do it:

 
Trains,,,, well at least Danish trains also have magnetic track brakes, these will cut a lot of the stopping distance, the problem is the brakes on each carriage use a huge amount of power.
These are mostly used as EMG brakes,,, but that's also what we talk about.

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Passenger trains not least the fast ones are also very light today, but i assume that is offset by their higher speeds.
Still they must be able to stop pretty fast i assume, the Japanese which run very fast trains, but are also suffering from earthquakes, i assume they can stop "pretty" fast.

Found some numbers here pertaining to regular freight and passenger trains.

The Japanese Shinkansen trains need 3- 4 km to stop in case of a earthquake, so early warning needed

I do not think there is a flying passengers consideration, though if they slam the brake you might well end on your ass if you are standing up when it happen, i cant recall but their fast trains probably have seats like bus, so all passengers are facing the direction of travel,,,,, probably for good reason.

Danish railroads, got absolutely NOTHING on Japanese railroads no matter what parameter you look at outside of incompetence where i am sure we have them beaten.
 
1. Then add some high friction contact for emergency braking use only. Even if it was only single use, it would still solve problems like this and be cheaper to replace than a bus, the front of the train, and the driver!

Trains already have emergency brakes but not the kind you are suggesting, for good reason.

The main reason is that the truck is fitted with slow acting air brakes, if it was fitted with hydraulic brakes then the distances would be about the same.

Tractor trailer trucks have air brakes because hydraulic brakes would be dangerous in a vehicle that heavy.


2. Then make the trains lightweight, no good reason why the train should weigh more per person than the bus, and think of the fuel saving as we attempt to achieve net zero.

So, now you're an expert in train design and engineering too? Trains could never weigh the same as a bus "per person". Trains ride on multiple very heavy steel trucks (also known as "Bogies") that include the wheels, suspensions, braking systems and other components that buses simply don't have even if the cars are similar in weight and design.

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The semi does also have the disadvantage of potential jackknifing,

Trains can jackknife too, Nigel. That's why your notion that trains should have "high friction contact for emergency braking use" would not be a very good idea. (speaking of physics)

jackknife.jpg

According to the National Safety Council:
  • A lightweight passenger car traveling at 55 miles an hour can stop in about 200 feet in an emergency - under perfect conditions - that is, if tires and brakes are in good condition and the road is dry.
  • A commercial van or bus will need about 230 feet to stop.
  • A commercial truck/trailer can stop in about 300 feet - that's the length of a football field.
  • A light rail train requires about 600 feet to stop - the length of two football fields.
  • Compared to this, the average freight train we mentioned above traveling at 55 miles an hour may take the length of about 18 football fields to stop.

 
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So, now you're an expert in train design and engineering too? Trains could never weigh the same as a bus. They ride on multiple very heavy steel trucks (also known as "Bogies") that include the wheels, suspensions, braking systems and other components that buses simply don't have even if the cars are similar. Depending on the train and locomotive it can have as many as 850 separate heavy steel wheels if it has 10 cars, and that's without the weight of the complete bogies.
Train bogies and wheels tend to be aluminium these days, still use steel for the tires though.


 
Train bogies and wheels tend to be aluminium these days, still use steel for the tires though.



The vast majority of train wheels in use are still made of steel. Even with aluminum wheels the tires are made of steel because they ride on steel rails. Aluminum is lighter than steel but they would still make train cars far heavier than buses which do not have bogies. The weight of an individual train wheel can be anywhere from 400 pounds (181.437 kg) to 2,000 pounds (907.1847 kg) and that doesn't even take into account all the other heavy components in a bogie which can weigh in at several tons and there are two on each car. An average train with 10 cars would have at least 80 wheels not including the locomotive. And you think they can build railroad cars that weigh the same as buses based upon the average weight of cargo or personal carried? :ROFLMAO:

 
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