GPS information vs. liability concerns? Possible solutions?

[canyonblue737]

I don't want to overthink the whole issue but my new dashcam (Viofo A119S V2) with the GPS base can watermark the video with both position and speed data. You can also turn off the watermark for one or both but the camera will continue to embed the GPS data in the video file itself. My concern is liability from GPS data when using the footage in the event of an incident. Obviously I'm not talking about breaking the law by being way above the speed limit but rather I've heard anecdotal stories where dashcam footage was used to prove someone for example turned left in front of a vehicle on a green but because the vehicle not at fault was 2 mph over the speed limit the insurance companies were trying to deny a payout because being "over" the limit "contributed" to the accident and amount of damage. That would be disappointing in the extreme obviously. I know that speed can often be calculated from the video image itself by measuring frame to frame travel but I'd assume that would only be done in the worst accidents.

So what do you all do? Do you turn off GPS entirely? Do you watermark everything and just never ever find yourself above the speed limit? Do you remove the watermark but keep the embedded data planning to somehow reencode the video file without the embedded data prior to sending it to the police or insurance company? Do the police often just take the camera or camera card in an accident?

Sorry for all the questions, I love my new dashcam and its not like I'm some lawbreaker but I don't want to make things worse on myself if I don't have to. Thanks!

 

[Nigel]

If you are above the speed limit then you should accept partial responsibility for the accident, for 2mph that is either a very small amount of responsibility or maybe zero because the other driver should have allowed more than zero margin, for 200mph the accident would be 99.9% your fault.

The best solution is not to drive through junctions at or above the maximum speed limit, slow down a little for a few seconds while you pass through the danger area.

 

[Deleted member 24437]

Yeah! Slow a few seconds to really see the crunch coming!
Zoom through and avoid!

 

[Nigel]

Yeah! Slow a few seconds to really see the crunch coming!
Zoom through and avoid!

That does seem to be the USA attitude to safety!

 

[Deleted member 37895]

GPS precision is only 15 meters without WAAS https://www8.garmin.com/aboutGPS/waas.html
That's 49 feet. 70mph is 102 feet per second. So the GPS coordinate can say you went 102 feet in a second hence 70mph but technically you could have gone 53 feet or 151 feet. That's a speed range of between 36mph and 103mph.

In reality GPS speed is very accurate because the error is pretty consistent from one point to the next, so the relative locations are properly spaced. But you can argue the above with the insurance company

 

[DT MI]

That does seem to be the USA attitude to safety!

Only in some places. Definitely not cultural.

 

[kamkar]

I just love GPS, but of course if i go thru a intersection where the limit are 50 and i do 100 and some one run a red light and i T bone him or him me, then i will probably get a speeding ticket + with 50% over i will probably have to retake the licence, and then only have it probationary for 3 years or something like that.
And ( i think ) while my excessive speed may harm the other guy more, then really him running a red light is him putting himself in that situation so my speed should not have anything to say in that regard.

BUT ! i cant say i ever heard of a traffic case going to court here, doubt will be settled by police crash investigators that ware always called for in cases with person injury of a serious nature.

So i just hand over my footage to my insurance company, then its their job to do the rest which include turning in to the cops anyone for insurance fraud / false statements and so on.

My only job are to drive within the law, and collect for the insurance i pay dearly for.

 

[Deleted member 24437]

That does seem to be the USA attitude to safety!

Nuts!

 

[Deleted member 24437]

I just love GPS, but of course if i go thru a intersection where the limit are 50 and i do 100 and some one run a red light and i T bone him or him me, then i will probably get a speeding ticket + with 50% over i will probably have to retake the licence, and then only have it probationary for 3 years or something like that.
And ( i think ) while my excessive speed may harm the other guy more, then really him running a red light is him putting himself in that situation so my speed should not have anything to say in that regard.

BUT ! i cant say i ever heard of a traffic case going to court here, doubt will be settled by police crash investigators that ware always called for in cases with person injury of a serious nature.

So i just hand over my footage to my insurance company, then its their job to do the rest which include turning in to the cops anyone for insurance fraud / false statements and so on.

My only job are to drive within the law, and collect for the insurance i pay dearly for.

Moron driver avoidance!
There are millions of traffic accident court case ! We have a zillion cars/pickups going to work everyday! Chance is bound to get you!

 

[kamkar]

Actually they are currently running a campaign right now, asking people to use a couple of seconds more in intersections.

But i think it is meant for the pedal pushers as 2 out of 3 accidents involving cyclists happen in intersections, and i am sure 2 of 3 times its their own fault as they drive with that arrogant attitude that its the other that have to keep them safe.
It is annoying as hell as a driver and you have to sit there to make sure the pedal pusher do what you assume he/she are going to do now that they are too lazy to indicate or do the few things they have to do to make traffic safe.

 

[lacibaci]

I don't think any consumer device would be able to measure vehicle speed that accurately (within 2MPH) Especially when you are not moving at a constant speed.

 

[canyonblue737]

I see a trend here in the replies, I guess I was overthinking it. So everyone here turns on their watermarking of speed and location? Even with mine off apps like "Dashcam Viewer" work fine to show speed and location on a map so I'm wondering the value?

 

[Nigel]

I see a trend here in the replies, I guess I was overthinking it. So everyone here turns on their watermarking of speed and location? Even with mine off apps like "Dashcam Viewer" work fine to show speed and location on a map so I'm wondering the value?

I don't see the point in putting the coordinates on the video since nobody knows what they mean and you can't cut and paste them into google maps from the video to find out what they mean, I would only put the location on if it is displayed as place names + distance from that place.

I think in most cases having the speed is likely to be more use than harm. In an insurance claim, if the other person is claiming that you were doing speed limit + 50 and your video shows that you were doing speed limit - 5, then the whole of the other person's claim is going to be taken as untruthful and you will easily win, if your video shows speed limit +5, doesn't really make any difference, the other person is still lying. If you are above the speed limit then you might have to take some responsibility, but people should be leaving enough margin for error for +single digits to not cause accidents. If you are in double digits above the speed limit then you really should accept some responsibility.

Turning the speed off means that to see speed you have to view through a dashcam viewer, you cant just upload a short clip from the video to YouTube for people to see the speed, it could make an insurance claim slower and more difficult if you have to send the full size original file + the right viewing software.

As for the police, if you are single digits over the speed limit as measured by an uncalibrated consumer device then there is not much chance of them bothering to try a prosecution.

 

[Wastedagen]

I don't want to overthink the whole issue but my new dashcam (Viofo A119S V2) with the GPS base can watermark the video with both position and speed data. You can also turn off the watermark for one or both but the camera will continue to embed the GPS data in the video file itself. My concern is liability from GPS data when using the footage in the event of an incident. Obviously I'm not talking about breaking the law by being way above the speed limit but rather I've heard anecdotal stories where dashcam footage was used to prove someone for example turned left in front of a vehicle on a green but because the vehicle not at fault was 2 mph over the speed limit the insurance companies were trying to deny a payout because being "over" the limit "contributed" to the accident and amount of damage. That would be disappointing in the extreme obviously. I know that speed can often be calculated from the video image itself by measuring frame to frame travel but I'd assume that would only be done in the worst accidents.

So what do you all do? Do you turn off GPS entirely? Do you watermark everything and just never ever find yourself above the speed limit? Do you remove the watermark but keep the embedded data planning to somehow reencode the video file without the embedded data prior to sending it to the police or insurance company? Do the police often just take the camera or camera card in an accident?

Sorry for all the questions, I love my new dashcam and its not like I'm some lawbreaker but I don't want to make things worse on myself if I don't have to. Thanks!

If your that worried about having the GPS info embedded into the video file, just re-render the video clip in question before sending it off to insurance companies... Most Editing software like Filmora, for example, can't read GPS data, so when the video clip is rendered it won't embed that I'm formation into the new clip......

 

[DT MI]

If your that worried about having the GPS info embedded into the video file, just re-render the video clip in question before sending it off to insurance......

Doing that (altering evidence) would definitely make it inadmissible for a legal procedure and might have the same effect for any 'official' process - including an insurance investigation.

 

[Wastedagen]

I understand that, but I'm not on about editing the video... I'm on about re-rendering to a smaller file size so it can be uploaded easier to insurance companies.. The length and pixel size of the video would remain unchanged... Only change the bit rate...

 

[DT MI]

I understand that, but I'm not on about editing the video... I'm on about re-rendering to a smaller file size so it can be uploaded easier to insurance companies.. The length and pixel size of the video would remain unchanged... Only change the bit rate...

Sorry, it's still 'altered' and could potentially be a criminal offense since it's done purposefully with the intent of concealing or removing pertinent information. Any alteration of original information is a form of editing.

And, yes, I saw your 'winking' smiley but a cute emoji does not make concealing the truth right or acceptable.

 

[Wastedagen]

Sorry, it's still 'altered' and could potentially be a criminal offense since it's done purposefully with the intent of concealing or removing pertinent information. Any alteration of original information is a form of editing.

And, yes, I saw your 'winking' smiley but a cute emoji does not make concealing the truth right or acceptable.

Nope you're right, I can't deny that.

 

[kamkar]

Coordinates in the video i dislike / find not needed, i mean come on just looking at the video you can see where you are.
But i like to have the GPS speed there, and like some Lukas can i would like to have brake and steering & indicators there too, i could even be without the date / time stamp if need be.