Grainy, poorly defined daytime footage

[JohnnyFiama]

Does anyone else have issues with grainy daytime footage?

I find it pretty much impossible to make out the number plates of oncoming cars in 30mph zones, even parked cars are a challenge at times. The dashcam is hardwired and hidden away behind the rear-view mirror, complete with a CPL filter. Memory card is a Samsung Evo Plus 256, no known issues with missing footage (and so I presume the card is good). Recording 4k and using h.264 at the maximum allowed bitrate.

It was my expectation that a newly released 4k camera would perform well at relatively low speeds. This is my first dashcam, bought following a hit-and-run incident (driver untraced), hence the desire to capture VRN's.

Advice and general comments welcome.

 

[kamkar]

Are you sure you have removed all protective plastics, some have that on both side of CPL filter ASO.

 

[Nigel]

At this time of year in your part of the world, it is probably too dark for a good 30mph image much of the time, but if you post some screen shots or a bit of video on YouTube then we will be able to see if it is normal or if there is a problem.

A129 Pro image isn't normally grainy, but in low light it can lose detail.

 

[relive]

CPL filter

Even in the shade during the day without a CPL filter, my front camera footage has noticeable noise when viewed full screen on a 4K monitor. It's probably running around ISO 100 or 200 in the shade, which will produce a lot of noise for a sensor of its size and resolution. I am also in a part of the world which is much brighter than where you are. With the CPL filter, your EV is at least two stops below mine, so it's not surprising that your footage is a bit noisy.

Oncoming cars in a 30MPH zone are closing at 60MPH, which is a tough ask for any dashcam. You can try to lower the autoexposure EV to give the camera a fighting chance, but don't lower it so much that your footage becomes too dark. On firmware 1.1, I am using -2/3 on my front camera to get a correct exposure.

 

[kamkar]

For sure you will like to be out on a nice sunny day if you need a plate capture.

I did 2 X 34 KM today in the early afternoon, and i doubt i have captured any plates at least out on the highways where most of my drive was.
Grainy do sound a little strange for daytime footage ( its not that dark during the day ) but night time can do that id the ISO are ramped up too high.

It would be nice if OP could provide a little raw footage shared via his Google drive or similar microsoft file share setup

 

[JohnnyFiama]

Are you sure you have removed all protective plastics, some have that on both side of CPL filter ASO.

This is a fair question - But no, I have double checked.

At this time of year in your part of the world, it is probably too dark for a good 30mph image much of the time, but if you post some screen shots or a bit of video on YouTube then we will be able to see if it is normal or if there is a problem.

This is quite possibly the real issue, we've had overcast skies in recent days, and my "daytime" driving is more towards the start and end of each working day. If all cameras perform in the same way then I'll just have to live with things the way they are.

Even in the shade during the day without a CPL filter, my front camera footage has noticeable noise when viewed full screen on a 4K monitor. It's probably running around ISO 100 or 200 in the shade, which will produce a lot of noise for a sensor of its size and resolution. I am also in a part of the world which is much brighter than where you are. With the CPL filter, your EV is at least two stops below mine, so it's not surprising that your footage is a bit noisy.

Oncoming cars in a 30MPH zone are closing at 60MPH, which is a tough ask for any dashcam. You can try to lower the autoexposure EV to give the camera a fighting chance, but don't lower it so much that your footage becomes too dark. On firmware 1.1, I am using -2/3 on my front camera to get a correct exposure.

Interesting - For reference I too am reviewing footage on a 4k monitor.

For sure you will like to be out on a nice sunny day if you need a plate capture.

I did 2 X 34 KM today in the early afternoon, and i doubt i have captured any plates at least out on the highways where most of my drive was.
Grainy do sound a little strange for daytime footage ( its not that dark during the day ) but night time can do that id the ISO are ramped up too high.

It would be nice if OP could provide a little raw footage shared via his Google drive or similar microsoft file share setup

You are right of course, actual footage would be helpful! Tomorrow I will capture some footage and upload, I'll be sure to mute the mic, so that you don't have to listen to rendition of Tears for Fears - Mad World (todays radio selection of choice). Will also try and get out over lunch, so that we have the best of the light.

I am running firmware v1.1 though I believe there is a newer version in the wild, I'll make an effort to update beforehand.

 

[kamkar]

Not familiar with these cameras, so can only offer general help.
But for the people that have the camera seeing your footage will do a lot for them as they are used to look at their own footage.
Not saying, but we have seen several times in here people in some way expecting much more than what their new camera or for that matter any camera can deliver.
Even if dashcams are now stepping up into the 4K realm, that do not ensure super cinematic RED captures.

I am myself eager to step up into 4K, but it is out of my hand in general, every time i chance spending a little money on something i get slammed.
Build a new computer = one month later massive bill from the dentist
Few weeks ago chance buying 16 Gb more of super cheap RAM for the computer = another bill from the dentist last friday they forgot to send me back then, not massive but still annoying as hell.
And before all that, normal people have to replace a blown bulb in their car headlight now and then,,,, well i had to replace 2 complete headlight assemblies on my 2012 car as for some unknown reason my headlight plastic crack using factory bulbs.
And worst of all one of the not even a year old headlights are already cracked

Seem like the past 2 years i just can not catch a break, and my meager savings are dwindling, so by now if i get a new apartment i will have to borrow money in the bank for deposit and moving van.

 

[JohnnyFiama]

...
Not saying, but we have seen several times in here people in some way expecting much more than what their new camera or for that matter any camera can deliver.

Oh, I think that might well be the case in this instance!

When researching camera options I stumbled across some pre-release A129 Pro footage, captured in bright sunshine it was both crisp and especially detailed, naturally I concluded that every capture would look just the same I half joke, but for sure I did anticipate similar results.

 

[EGS]

Oh, I think that might well be the case in this instance!

When researching camera options I stumbled across some pre-release A129 Pro footage, captured in bright sunshine it was both crisp and especially detailed, naturally I concluded that every capture would look just the same I half joke, but for sure I did anticipate similar results.

It would be nice to see some of your footage to see what actually is happening with yours.

 

[Nigel]

Oh, I think that might well be the case in this instance!

When researching camera options I stumbled across some pre-release A129 Pro footage, captured in bright sunshine it was both crisp and especially detailed, naturally I concluded that every capture would look just the same I half joke, but for sure I did anticipate similar results.

In the reviews, cameras that are released in the summer always look considerably better than cameras released at Christmas when there is about 1/8th the sunlight!

If the sun comes out it will still do a good job though, and yes, all dashcams suffer from cloudy conditions in winter. As Kamkar points out, a closing speed of 60MPH is quite fast for any camera unless it is sunny, it should still capture plates at slow speed or stopped.

 

[JohnnyFiama]

In the reviews, cameras that are released in the summer always look considerably better than cameras released at Christmas!

That reality is not lost on me, makes perfect sense.

If the sun comes out it will still do a good job though, and yes, all dashcams suffer from cloudy conditions in winter. As Kamkar points out, a closing speed of 60MPH is quite fast for any camera unless it is sunny, it should still capture plates at slow speed or stopped.

When at standstill or moving slow you're right, things are crisp and pretty acceptable. Like I suggested earlier these are expectations I'll simply have to manage.

It would be nice to see some of your footage to see what actually is happening with yours.

Agreed, I will aim to do this tomorrow.

 

[kamkar]

Same with night time footage from the factory, it look stunning and you can read plates and everything, but then stopping and analyzing the footage, it is captured in some Asian metropolis that have higher night time light levels than we have up here in the daytime this time of the year, and speed difference to the other cars are small, and if it is that you can also capture plates at night.

 

[JohnnyFiama]

As promised here is a link to some raw footage taken from earlier this afternoon.

I am sorry about the file size, ideally I would have reduced the loop period - Note the occassional spot of rain on the windscreen, and also the fact that many cars have their lights on despite the time of day, it really is gloomy in the UK at the moment.

...also, look out for the moped exiting a one-way street

 

[kamkar]

Yeah a slow host, i currently DL at 400 KB/sec,,, but i can download at least 120 MB/second if the host allow for that.
So 2 hours for something i could do in 2 minutes

 

[Teflon490]

It's not the host, I was able to stream it in realtime.

The quality seems ok to me, A129 Pro has a lot grainier footage in complete dark in comparison to lower resolution chips, so given this was taken in less-than-ok lighting conditions, it is fine I would say.

 

[JohnnyFiama]

Weird that you are experiencing such poor speeds, apologies for selecting a slugish host.

...in other news I could only dream of 120 MB/second DL speeds.

 

[Nigel]

the fact that many cars have their lights on despite the time of day, it really is gloomy in the UK at the moment.

And note that the British, unlike some other countries, only turn their lights on when they can't see anymore!

Watching without downloading, it looks pretty good. Yes, there is motion blur due to the low light levels, that will disappear when the sun comes out. It is hard to judge how dark it actually is, but the motion blur doesn't look unusual to me.

With the 4K, it helps to read number plates when they are still in the distance, and if your 4K screen isn't huge then get the magnifying glass out (either software or physical).

 

[kamkar]

Its not here either, just run this while downloading.

 

[JohnnyFiama]

Watching without downloading, it looks pretty good. Yes, there is motion blur due to the low light levels, that will disappear when the sun comes out. It is hard to judge how dark it actually is, but the motion blur doesn't look unusual to me.

I think this is probably what I hoped to hear, if the A129 Pro is on par with the current crop of 4k cameras then I will adjust my expectations.

Edit: New to the equation is that I have upgraded to firmware v1.2

 

[Nigel]

I think this is probably what I hoped to hear, if the A129 Pro is on par with the current crop of 4k cameras then I will adjust my expectations.

There are very few cameras that will do any better, I think the A119 V3 does a little better in these lighting conditions, although not so much when it gets even darker, older cameras without Starvis sensors will do significantly worse.

Doesn't look like you are using a CPL but if you are then it may be worth removing it for the next few months unless the sun comes out, put it back on in the spring.