H.264 vs H.265??? Same file size, same bitrate, same resolution

[hulk2k17]

Looking at footage I captured with both codecs, all things seem to be about the same as noted in the title. While I can't quantitatively prove it, H.265 seems sharper under magnification to me than H.264. I've attached a couple of samples

Can someone more knowledgeable explain why H.265 is better, quality wise? Or is it really a wash and H.264 should just be used instead since it's more compatible with older computers?

Thanks

 

[jokiin]

very hard to make a comparison if not from side by side video shot at the same time

 

[hulk2k17]

True, but mathematically is there a technical benefit (quality wise) with H.265 vs H.264?

Thanks.

 

[jokiin]

technically it is meant to offer the same results in less space, all sorts of claims of being 50% more efficient, can't say I've ever seen any practical demonstration that backs that claim up though

 

[hulk2k17]

Well the bitrate, file size, and resolution are identical so i'm not quite sure what's actually different

 

[jokiin]

The claim that gets made is it is meant to deliver the same results as H.264 in half the space, by that logic at the same bitrates H.265 should look far superior, have yet to see a real world example to back that claim up though

Personally I would use H.264 for greater compatibility should you need to share an unaltered file with an insurer, court etc

 

[nutsey]

If the bitrate is high enough for h.264 to record videos without visible artifacts (blocking) don't expect that h.265 will do anything better in same conditions.

 

[TonyM]

Well the bitrate, file size, and resolution are identical so i'm not quite sure what's actually different

The theory is that you should be able to set a lower quality setting (i.e. lower bitrate) with h265 and get the same result as you did before with h264.

As I understand it, the quality setting on the 900S uses the same bitrate in both h264 and h265 modes. It is up to you to choose a lower quality setting if you are using h265.

 

[jokiin]

As I understand it, the quality setting on the 900S uses the same bitrate in both h264 and h265 modes. It is up to you to choose a lower quality setting if you are using h265.

human nature says most people would set it to the maximum value anyway, diminishing returns with bitrate as you go higher and higher the differences really become very negligible beyond a certain point

 

[Nigel]

True, but mathematically is there a technical benefit (quality wise) with H.265 vs H.264?

Thanks.

Yes, technically there is a benefit.

The H265 should be able to store more detail in the same space, however that doesn't work if the H264 is already storing all the detail, as is likely the case in your samples.
It should also be able to store the same detail in half the space; however in your samples you had it set to use the same space (same bitrate) so you would not see that advantage.

So for your next test, you should compare the H264 at maximum bitrate with H265 at half bitrate, and then decide if the quality loss is worth the increased record time. Based on H265 being able to use half the bitrate, there should be no noticeable difference in quality but you should get twice the amount of video stored on your memory card. In reality I would expect it to fail and you will see a noticeable loss in quality, especially when driving under trees, then you will know that the H265 is not worth using and compatibility is more important...

You wont see the differences by comparing license plates, the differences will be in the detail on blades of grass, tree leaves, and banding/pixilation in the sky and road surface.

 

[evad]

DR900S bitrate comparison video:

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

 

[Nigel]

DR900S bitrate comparison video:

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

What was your conclusion?

It appeared to me that H264 was slightly better, but I was looking at it after youtube has done it's work!

 

[nutsey]

DR900S bitrate comparison video:

Sent from my ONEPLUS A5000 using Tapatalk

Did you compare the "key" (intra) frames of each footage or random ones?

 

[Nath]

Guys, in a nutshell, the benefit of the h265 is most noticeable in stationary scenes(or "stationary parts of the image"). While the whole image moves, the bitrate/quality is pretty close to the old h264 - which means, try to compare storage consumption in a parking mode.

Of course if we are talking about VBR...

 

[hulk2k17]

Here some new samples taken 3 minutes apart. Storm was coming so things got dark real fast.

Both captured in Extreme mode. To me both look about the same.

 

[evad]

Did you compare the "key" (intra) frames of each footage or random ones?

Random.

 

[Nigel]

Here some new samples taken 3 minutes apart. Storm was coming so things got dark real fast.

Both captured in Extreme mode. To me both look about the same.

You are unlikely to see any difference when parked, you could probably use half the bitrate and still see no difference from the extreme bitrate ones when parked. The differences only become visible when they are running low on bitrate and for that you need to be moving reasonably quickly with a lot of detail in the image, such as when driving under trees, and the difference should be easier to see when using lower bitrates.

 

[hulk2k17]

Thanks for the replies. So the take away is using H.265 at 12 Mbps should yield the same quality as H.264 25 Mbps.

 

[jokiin]

Thanks for the replies. So the take away is using H.265 at 12 Mbps should yield the same quality as H.264 25 Mbps.

that's the theory, I don't see that in the results though, I don't think it's quite as efficient as claimed

is it better, quite possibly, I just don't think the differences are as large as what keeps getting promoted, I don't mean by Blackvue, pretty much everywhere it gets touted as delivering the same results in half the space but that's something you never really can measure so it's all a bit too hyped up in marketing it I feel, perhaps some other processors will be able to do it better, we see that already with H.264 where some processors running at lower bitrates can outdo others running higher bitrates, there's a lot more to it than just the numbers

 

[Nath]

h264, 410MB vs h265, 169MB (pretty same IQ)

It's from DOD RC500S, so obviously video is recorded in h264 and re-encoded into h265.