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DT MI

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More than my wife thinks I need.
...

So @Nigel, are you a lawyer then? Because that lawyer clearly cites UK criminal code for hit and run, so one does exist on the books.
He's a self-appointed expert in any subject he chooses - just ask him. :ROFLMAO:
 

HonestReview

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I was referring to Nigel.

Yes, I understand. My point was @Nigel is claiming the lawyer is a sham. There is UK clearly a criminal code on the books, so unless @Nigel is a lawyer, I don't know how he is qualified to state his position a law doesn't exist.

Lazy police enforcement or a single anecdotal instance doesn't mean the law cannot be applied.

Fortunately I can read the law better than that lawer selling free legal advice that you found on the interweb :ROFLMAO:
If you look back to TonyM's story of his hit and run about a year ago, you will see how the law here actually works.
 

TonyM

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In my case I was surprised and disappointed that the police did not want to take any action. This is a police force that requests dashcam footage of dangerous driving and near misses and seeks enforcement action if a traffic offence has been committed, yet they fail to take action when there's a physical accident?? :mad: :mad:

I did think about re-opening the case by posting the dashcam footage to them again, but it was almost 4 years ago. I might do it just to see what their reaction is.
 

HonestReview

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In my case I was surprised and disappointed that the police did not want to take any action. This is a police force that requests dashcam footage of dangerous driving and near misses and seeks enforcement action if a traffic offence has been committed, yet they fail to take action when there's a physical accident?? :mad: :mad:

I did think about re-opening the case by posting the dashcam footage to them again, but it was almost 4 years ago. I might do it just to see what their reaction is.

You know me, I'm a very vocal person... I would have been kicking and screaming for them to take action. Or tried to go above their head.

What would have happened if you DIDN'T HAVE PROOF? The lady / man would have fled and got away! Thus, hit and run. But in your case, you captured a plate.

That would have been more than enough incentive to not let it go for me.
 

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An Isolated and anecdotal incident, along with police laziness, doesn't negate the fact that a law regarding hit and run still exists. It appears since the police didn't press the issue, it became an insurance matter at that point.
The police did their job correctly and very promptly, and then didn't take it any further because no crime had been committed so it was then purely an insurance matter!
 

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The police did their job correctly and very promptly, and then didn't take it any further because no crime had been committed so it was then purely an insurance matter!

Here, reckless or negligent driving is a crime: a misdemeanor. The standard for a conviction for negligent or reckless operation in violation of this statute is "ordinary negligence", examining whether the person breached a duty to exercise ordinary care.

The next level would be "gross negligence". The difference between ordinary and grossly negligent operation is a matter of degree. A person can be convicted of ordinary negligent operation by failing to "exercise ordinary care" while driving. A grossly negligent operation conviction, on the other hand, requires proof that the motorist's driving amounted to a "gross deviation from the care that a reasonable person would have exercised."

In @TonyM's situation the other driver was clearly guilty of at least negligent driving, but when she decided to leave the scene of the accident she committed a more serious crime.

§ 1128. Crashes; duty to stop

(a) The operator of a motor vehicle who has caused or is involved in a crash resulting in injury to any person other than the operator, or in damage to any property other than the vehicle then under his or her control, shall immediately stop and render any assistance reasonably necessary. Subsection 1102(g) of this title (stopping not to impede traffic or jeopardize safety; exceptions) governs the location where a person shall stop. The operator shall give his or her name, residence, license number, and the name of the owner of the motor vehicle to any person who is injured or whose property is damaged and to any enforcement officer. A person who violates this section shall be fined not more than $2,000.00 or imprisoned for not more than two years, or both.

The charges are vastly increased if you leave the scene of an accident where there is serious bodily injury or death. You could be fined $3000.00 and face prison time of up to 15 years.

Here we blame the perpetrator. Apparently in the UK you blame the victim.

Here it is hardly just a mere insurance matter. It is a matter of public safety.
 

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In @TonyM's situation the other driver was clearly guilty of at least negligent driving, but when she decided to leave the scene of the accident she committed a more serious crime.
Leaving the scene was not a crime.

Negligent driving, or the UK equivalent, appears to be correct, but I doubt that charge would get through court without an admission of guilt, and presumably there was some sort of excuse when the police talked to her. The police need proof of the crime, not suspicion.
 

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One word. Anecdotal. A law exists, the police were lazy and chose not to enforce it. If I were @TonyM I would have reached out to prosecutors office and tried to escalate the matter if that's possible in the UK.

The police failed to do their job.
I do not know about your country. In the USA the police have no legal duty to do anything but investigate and pick up the dead bodies if they feel like it. The public duty doctrine has made police mostly useless instead of being our protectors and trusted guardians.
 

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The police did their job correctly and very promptly, and then didn't take it any further because no crime had been committed so it was then purely an insurance matter!

Don't quit your day job to pursue law......Here's a source from the UK government!


From the Government of the UK. A law enacted in 1988 criminalized hit and run!

(2)The driver of the [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

(3)If for any reason the driver of the [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

(4)A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.

Running and failing to report the accident is a crime!
 

HonestReview

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I do not know about your country. In the USA the police have no legal duty to do anything but investigate and pick up the dead bodies if they feel like it. The public duty doctrine has made police mostly useless instead of being our protectors and trusted guardians.

I'm sure the police cite at fault drivers. That if someone hits you and flees, you can file a police report for hit and run. Charges can be filed if you identify the driver and file a police report. And that your insurance company will pursue the person who caused the accident, for want of not having to pay if they can collect ANYTHING from his insurance or assets. Assuming he / she has either.
 

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Leaving the scene was not a crime.

Negligent driving, or the UK equivalent, appears to be correct, but I doubt that charge would get through court without an admission of guilt, and presumably there was some sort of excuse when the police talked to her. The police need proof of the crime, not suspicion.

Leaving the scene of an accident that causes damage to another's property, bodily injury or death is not a crime?. How could such an act be legal in a civilized, responsible society?

Of course law enforcement needs evidence and probable cause to make an arrest. Why even make a self evident remark like that?

But even one car's paint on the damaged section of another car can match the vehicle that fled the scene to the particular incident. And often, there are witnesses.

This remark you made 10 days ago in this thread gets more laughable as the discussion progresses! :smuggrin:

I'm glad we don't have your laws here, instead everyone is responsible for avoiding accidents if possible.
 

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...From the Government of the UK. A law enacted in 1988 criminalized hit and run!

(2)The driver of the [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] must stop and, if required to do so by any person having reasonable grounds for so requiring, give his name and address and also the name and address of the owner and the identification marks of the vehicle.

(3)If for any reason the driver of the [F1mechanically propelled vehicle] does not give his name and address under subsection (2) above, he must report the accident.

(4)A person who fails to comply with subsection (2) or (3) above is guilty of an offence.

Running and failing to report the accident is a crime!
The offence is defined in (4), failure to comply with (2) is not in itself a crime.

I believe the lady did satisfy (3), as detailed in (6), and so is not guilty of an offence as defined in (4).

In fact, at first sight she appears to have satisfied (2) as well, although case law may have clarified that!

The other driver initially stopped...
 

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@Nigel, If you stop and then drive away, it is even more legally egregious than if you pretended like nothing happened and kept driving!

Your rationalizing gets more astonishing as time goes on!
 

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The offence is defined in (4), failure to comply with (2) is not in itself a crime.

I believe the lady did satisfy (3), as detailed in (6), and so is not guilty of an offence as defined in (4).

In fact, at first sight she appears to have satisfied (2) as well, although case law may have clarified that!

At fault didn't REPORT the accident or give her name and address! @TonyM had to tack her down via her plates!! Even the most generous interpretation only only 24 hours to satisfy the requirement of reporting an accident that after leaving the scene.

(6)To comply with a duty under this section to report an accident or to produce such a certificate of insurance F6... or other evidence, as is mentioned in section 165(2)(a) of this Act, the driver—

(a)must do so at a police station or to a constable, and

(b)must do so as soon as is reasonably practicable and, in any case, within twenty-four hours of the occurrence of the accident.

(7)A person who fails to comply with a duty under subsection (5) above is guilty of an offence, but he shall not be convicted by reason only of a failure to produce a certificate or other evidence if, within [F7seven] days after the occurrence of the accident, the certificate or other evidence is produced at a police station that was specified by him at the time when the accident was reported.
 

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At fault didn't REPORT the accident or give her name and address! @TonyM had to tack her down via her plates!! Even the most generous interpretation only only 24 hours to satisfy the requirement of reporting an accident that after leaving the scene.
Did speak to a police constable and supply name and address within 24 hours.
See Tony's thread for details.
 

HonestReview

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Did speak to a police constable and supply name and address within 24 hours.
See Tony's thread for details.

So then it wasn't a hit and run. The person verified their information within 24 hours. However, leaving the scene of an accident + not filing a report or verifying one's information with the constable WITHIN 24 hrs IS A CRIME!!

In Tony's case, the person met the 24 hr time limit.

Thanks for playing. Don't quit your day job. You've just answered your own question.
 

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Did speak to a police constable and supply name and address within 24 hours.
See Tony's thread for details.

That's not true! According to Tony's thread she only spoke to the police after they showed up at her door. THAT does not fulfill the requirement to REPORT the accident within 24 hours.

It's very odd how you keep rationalizing her behavior and offering your own personal interpretation of your laws.
 
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