High quality low light 1ch dashcam - upgrading from Mobius

[HeWhoMustNotBeNamed]

Been driving with Mobius for almost 2 years now. Peace of mind is great during the day. Unfortunately, footage from the Mobius is completely useless at night. I think it's actually really dangerous to recommend this camera for dashcam usage, night footage is so bad. This camera is clearly only useful for daylight driving or FPV.

I am looking for a medium priced, discreet 1 channel that can run off capacitor. 12v preferred over 5v for smaller cables, either way it will be hard wired.

Reliability and low-light performance are paramount. Anything with shoddy reliability or subpar low light performance is unacceptable.

what I have found in my brief search:
Thinkware F50
Thinkware F750
BlackVue DR450-1CH
BlackVue DR650S-1CH
Lukas LK-7900 ARA
Lukas LK-7200 CUTY
Lukas LK-7500 REAL

How do these compare size-wise and picture quality wise? The Lukas cameras look very large from the photos but it's hard to tell. Any reliability issues with any of them?

Thanks

 

[jokiin]

what kind of low light situations, just street lighting is a lot different to areas without street lighting, city driving is a lot different to country driving etc

 

[HeWhoMustNotBeNamed]

suburban/metro area driving. bad street lighting, worse highway lighting. Las Vegas, NV.

here's an example from mobius on my previous car.

 

[jokiin]

not seeing your example?

 

[HeWhoMustNotBeNamed]

i.imgur.com/gcLbYX7.jpg

 

[jokiin]

the F750 or the Lukas models will offer better results in those kinds of conditions

 

[kamkar]

Yeah if a mobius can do that then there is indeed improvements to be made with a new better camera, just don't expect major improvements, it is after all nighttime and the worst you can throw at a dashcam.

Of those i think i would go with the F50, i had the LK-7500 and it is now on duty in my little sisters car ( been there a while now )
7900 and 7500 are more or less the same, and the 7200 as i recall use a samsung sensor that's less good in low light.
The reason for the single "cheapo" F50 is there is new cameras in the pipeline that will "blow" the pants of current cameras in regard to low light performance.

 

[HeWhoMustNotBeNamed]

just don't expect major improvements

Well then what would be the point? A marginal improvement over useless footage is still useless footage.

I'm prepared to spend extra money for usable night time footage. My GoPro takes better nighttime footage. Is this a bitrate / resolution issue? What models do I need to be looking at for the best of the best? Are F50, DR650S, LK-7900 not top of the line?

 

[jokiin]

Well then what would be the point? A marginal improvement over useless footage is still useless footage.

I'm prepared to spend extra money for usable night time footage. My GoPro takes better nighttime footage. Is this a bitrate / resolution issue? What models do I need to be looking at for the best of the best? Are F50, DR650S, LK-7900 not top of the line?

the DR650 is ok in well lit situations, when the lighting is low it struggles, some examples here https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...rdian-sg9665gc-vs-blackvue-dr650gw-1ch.21701/

the F50 is an entry level model and I don't feel it does great video, the F750 does better in low light but still has bitrate limitations

Lukas are grainy in low light but will reveal detail

 

[niko]

@HeWhoMustNotBeNamed - does size of dascham is important to you or any size will do, most important is good ( best ? ) night recording , right ?

 

[kamkar]

Well then what would be the point? A marginal improvement over useless footage is still useless footage.

Cant argue with that.

I just said that cuz i think often people are expecting more in low light than the current technology in dashcams can offer.

But just have a look in the review section, what you see in there from the different cameras is more or less what you get, there are no "secret" super dashcams that offer a significant better low light performance, only ones that are a little better that other cameras.

That is also why i myself are not too bothered with low light performance, sure Danish roads are not too well lit at night, and hit and run are on the rise here.
But i can also see that the cameras are far from where i would like them to be regarding low light performance, hell even today and with a good camera you can easily find yourself in a situation in the daytime where capturing a plate is not possible, and this in a regular head on situation on a Danish highway where the 2 cars pass each other with 3-4 feet between them and doing 50 MPH.

Just add some Grey / Black clouds blocking the sun, or drive into a heavenly shaded area, and already then plate capture can be a issue, but also remember its not all about plate capture, personally i cant be bothered with it other than it is a factor to judge the performance of a camera.

And Danish plates with their 2 "large" letters and 5 numbers are some of the more easy on cameras, US plates i think are smaller in size of the plate and the lettering.

Low light performance in dashcams are without a doubt the #1 challenge for the companies that make them, at least that's what i think.

So with all that said and done i rely in the fact that my camera do one thing good and virtually all the time, and that is documenting that its not me driving around and doing stupid "poo"
So what ever go down i am pretty sure i can document it was not my fault, and so the other part involved must be the one to blame.

Even on a unlit rural highway at night if some one sideswipe me as he overtake me, i can still document with my footage that:

1. NO i was not changing speed or braking
2. NO i was not swerving back and forth in my lane
3. NO i did not pull over and into the overtaking car

Sure if the guy sideswiping me decide to carry on and run, well then i am properly screwed as it is unlikely i will get a capture of this plate, though a situation like that where a car overtake you at night at a speed not too much higher than your own is one of the situations where plate capture might just be possible.
But with current technology in dashcams i feel that's still a roll of the dice, so if possible i would see the plate myself and then call it out for the microphone in the camera to pick up.

 

[HeWhoMustNotBeNamed]

the DR650 is ok in well lit situations, when the lighting is low it struggles, some examples here https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threa...rdian-sg9665gc-vs-blackvue-dr650gw-1ch.21701/

the F50 is an entry level model and I don't feel it does great video, the F750 does better in low light but still has bitrate limitations

Lukas are grainy in low light but will reveal detail

ok thanks. wow I expected a lot better from the BlackVue, yikes. The Street Guardian looks really good in comparison to my Mobius!

@HeWhoMustNotBeNamed - does size of dascham is important to you or any size will do, most important is good ( best ? ) night recording , right ?

Yes, night quality is more important than size. Do you have something in mind?

I just said that cuz i think often people are expecting more in low light than the current technology in dashcams can offer.

But just have a look in the review section, what you see in there from the different cameras is more or less what you get, there are no "secret" super dashcams that offer a significant better low light performance, only ones that are a little better that other cameras.

That is also why i myself are not too bothered with low light performance, sure Danish roads are not too well lit at night, and hit and run are on the rise here.
But i can also see that the cameras are far from where i would like them to be regarding low light performance, hell even today and with a good camera you can easily find yourself in a situation in the daytime where capturing a plate is not possible, and this in a regular head on situation on a Danish highway where the 2 cars pass each other with 3-4 feet between them and doing 50 MPH.

Just add some Grey / Black clouds blocking the sun, or drive into a heavenly shaded area, and already then plate capture can be a issue, but also remember its not all about plate capture, personally i cant be bothered with it other than it is a factor to judge the performance of a camera.

And Danish plates with their 2 "large" letters and 5 numbers are some of the more easy on cameras, US plates i think are smaller in size of the plate and the lettering.

Low light performance in dashcams are without a doubt the #1 challenge for the companies that make them, at least that's what i think.

So with all that said and done i rely in the fact that my camera do one thing good and virtually all the time, and that is documenting that its not me driving around and doing stupid "poo"
So what ever go down i am pretty sure i can document it was not my fault, and so the other part involved must be the one to blame.

Even on a unlit rural highway at night if some one sideswipe me as he overtake me, i can still document with my footage that:

1. NO i was not changing speed or braking
2. NO i was not swerving back and forth in my lane
3. NO i did not pull over and into the overtaking car

Sure if the guy sideswiping me decide to carry on and run, well then i am properly screwed as it is unlikely i will get a capture of this plate, though a situation like that where a car overtake you at night at a speed not too much higher than your own is one of the situations where plate capture might just be possible.
But with current technology in dashcams i feel that's still a roll of the dice, so if possible i would see the plate myself and then call it out for the microphone in the camera to pick up.

All good points, and a great idea to try and yell out the plate if possible. Even one digit is better than none especially given that we have plates from 50 states to worry about.



What do you think is holding back dashcams from having great night quality? Sensor size/quality, headlight quality, street lighting variations, or bitrate / compression limitation? As I said my GoPro seems to have very good night quality and quite a bit of dynamic range, is this related more to higher resolution, bitrate, A9 processor, or is it just because I am using it in a different situation than a dashcam?

 

[kamkar]

Larger sensors will make it possible to have larger pixels, and larger pixels can capture more light.
Then there is off course also some other form of optimization, a while back some professor claimed he found a way to make existing sensor technology almost 1000 X more light sensitive.

The up and coming cameras with the Sony IMX 291 sensors have even larger pixels than what the current top dog the IMX 322 have, its not 2 x larger pixels but it is enough i think to make those cameras look so much better than you notice the mobius / Vs the street guardian camera with the IMX 322

And sure you can easy see with your eye that there is some difference in night recordings between those 2 cameras, but in real world situations that don't mean you will be making plate captures on the SG camera where the Mobius cant, sure once in a while you will see that happen as the SG camera is better hands down, but if you count how many cars pass you on that night drive and you then go over the footage to see how many plates you captured, then you will find its only a few % you have of readable plates.

Thats why i am always careful to say we need the night performance to be a whole lot better, but off course the little incremental steps we see happen will work wonders for the not quite night time recordings, so i do think soon those grey and rainy days or that meeting in the shade will be much less of a problem compared to current cameras.

I also thing when the tech do finally get a whole lot better then new problems will pop up, cuz then the headlights of cars and light from billboards and shop windows might be a problem. ( too much light )

 

[jokiin]

The up and coming cameras with the Sony IMX 291 sensors have even larger pixels than what the current top dog the IMX 322 have, its not 2 x larger pixels but it is enough i think to make those cameras look so much better than you notice the mobius / Vs the street guardian camera with the IMX 322

the IMX322 has 2.8 µm pixels and the IMX291 has 2.9 µm pixels so the difference there is quite minimal, the IMX291 though uses back side illumination which allows more light to get to the pixels which is where the major gain is that gives the IMX291 the advantage

 

[kamkar]

I couldn't remember and i did not want to be google wise, thought the pixels was like 1 µm larger.

Just go to proof after all i am just a casual addict to this game

Still the 291 will make the 322 look old

 

[jokiin]

I couldn't remember and i did not want to be google wise, thought the pixels was like 1 µm larger.

Just go to proof after all i am just a casual addict to this game

the performance difference offered by going to back side illumination would need a bigger pixel if it was the same setup as the IMX322, to squeeze the performance they do out of sensors that are physically so small is quite amazing really

 

[SawMaster]

I don't think we're going to see any huge steps forward with night use and these small cams, but improvements are coming and may be worth waiting for. I've played with my Mobius settings a little and found that you can get a little better night vids than the default settings give, but it's not a lot and it's not easy since the settings interact. Plus it degrades the daytime performance. You could switch between modes but that's awkward. I'm just running default now as its good enough for me. The JooVoo "X" sought to do that switching for you automatically at a pre-set time but as seasons change so does the daylight so it's not the perfect solution but maybe better- at least you don't have to remember anything.

I've heard that the Git1 does well at night and I'll be buying one to try someday, but it's a battery-only cam and it gets pretty hot in the summers here so that may be a bust. You can get better daytime cams so it's a trade-off. I think it's about the cheapest cam with a good reputation at night which strongly affects my decision and it will be a rear cam so it should work out for me I hope. The few night vids I've seen from it show it better than Mobius but still nothing like professional cams on TV and movies and that's a level we'll never reach- something to keep in mind when thinking night use.

The quest for the perfect dashcam will never end because it will never be made- everything is a compromise.

Phil

 

[jokiin]

I don't think we're going to see any huge steps forward with night use and these small cams, but improvements are coming

it's evolution rather than revolution, the improvements are incremental

The quest for the perfect dashcam will never end because it will never be made- everything is a compromise.

indeed, even as they do get better and better people just raise their expectations accordingly anyway

 

[J Ward]

Does anyone have a name for the dashcams that are coming that will be the "best" for nighttime?
Also, OP, have you seen the ddpai mini 2 (no not the original mini)? It seems fairly good at night time but I can't find it for sale anywhere.

 

[Daniel K]

@J Ward
Please see my video from last night with Akenori NX01: