How should the perfect dash cam designed?

FSC830

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For continue the discussion started here I opened this thread as a pool for ideas/suggestions of a perfect dash cam.
I know, every user has his own idea of what is perfect and I do not believe that at the end of the day a manufacturer represents the unit we desire... :D

But may be some day far away a dashcam with at last some of the features is available.

Here is a conclusion of the first ideas:

All connections like power, GPS (if external), AV out, etc. etc. should be done to the permanent mount so that camera could be disconnected quick and easy.
Close installation (no large distance to windshield, head unit) i.e. like Blackvue/i1000.
2 channels (front and rear) will be nice without decreasing video quality/frame rate)
USB Host Connector for connecting an external USB HDD for recording (will increase recording time dramatically ;) )


P.S. I am not very familiar with the board software, but may be an admin can pin this thread on top and move the posts from the link above to this thread?

Regards
 
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jokiin

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Thanks for starting this thread, I'm very interested in any and all feedback, we are right at the stage of making some decisions on design and this is really relevant right now, hardware we're reasonably well sorted, we know what options we have and what we can do, the design options though are a minefield, I spent half a day today at the international motor show here in Shenzhen and sat in all sorts of cars looking at camera options, where cameras could be mounted, cables run, how to keep things as minimal as possible, didn't spend too much time with the Chinese cars but more the US, Euro and Japanese models they sell here that might be applicable to other markets as well

I know there's no one size fits all solution but I'm trying to look at things from a different perspective and trying to get form and function right (or at least improve it), any ideas anyone has would be most welcome
 
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Why is this making me want to download autocad and start drafting up a design?

I have an idea in my head and I seriously feel it needs to be on paper. Digital paper of course. :p

I would like you to elaborate on the "Close Installation" though. I'm not understanding this concept.

EDIT: Actually I think I get the idea. The closer the distance from the windshield and the Camera lense, the better? Right?
 

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WhiteEightBall said:
I would like you to elaborate on the "Close Installation" though. I'm not understanding this concept.

getting the lens closer to the window to minimise reflection from the dash, it's something I'm aware of and definitely on the drawing board already

WhiteEightBall said:
Why is this making me want to download autocad and start drafting up a design?

I have an idea in my head and I seriously feel it needs to be on paper. Digital paper of course. :p

don't let me hold you back ;) I'd take hand drawn concepts, it's what I've been working on all last week, actually the visit to the car show today changed my thinking somewhat and am probably going to prioritise what would have been a following model and do it sooner now as I think it's going to be more important in the scheme of things
 

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jokiin said:
the visit to the car show today changed my thinking somewhat and am probably going to prioritise what would have been a following model and do it sooner now as I think it's going to be more important in the scheme of things
this was a bit cryptic but are you saying you realized that you need to put a product on the market sooner rather than later? The market seems to be moving faster now, and we all know the development stage basically bleeds money.
If you start selling quicker at least there is some revenue to sustain continuous development of next gen products.
 

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ciuvak said:
this was a bit cryptic but are you saying you realized that you need to put a product on the market sooner rather than later?

not so much that, we have a few models we are doing, I may just change the order in which we do them, we don't have the resources to do them all at once so just changing the priority, it likely means I'll have dual cam product done sooner rather than later as some of what we are doing will lead to that
 

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Dod LS300W + 32GB Class 10 Samsung Plus
For me :

Ambarella 5+ processor
Very Good CMOS like Sensor CMOS Exmor R/ Samsung / Nikon
WDR + Noise reduction
SD use , not microSD , support for 64GB class 10 and 128GB class 10 like lukas 7900
Very Sharp during day
Headsinks on processor and memory and good Heat take down design.
Shake Filler , something for record stabler less shaking.
Long view at night
Data and Gps information on screen whit Cinema Letters ( slight dark White + black borders)
Uber Control of Overexposure (kill a lot of cams)
Angled Lens 135o or 140o
Firmware Aways being updated
Big Aperture like LS300W
Small Size
Simple design , i don´t like "Steal me Cams"
Suck mount + Direct mount , a good design like Vicovation/Dod does.
Wifi + Cellphone App
GPS
Good Placed Microphone whit big whole and good sensor.
6 Element Lens Wide and Good quality
1080p 30 and 60 FPS , over 15
720P 30 and 60 FPS , over 15
DONT, NO , No way Led Things , those X-mas three things stolen attention of driver.
Seamless record / Cycle whit no gaps.
G-Sensor.
Emergency Stop button and make Record on different area of SD , like a directory called Emergency and this don´t get erased.
Emergency Record.
a Option on Setup to Reset Focus or Setup the focus , dunno if it is possible.
H.264 Compression whit options like Soft Compression , no compression and Hard Compression.
Built-in Li-polymer battery
Good Designed MicroUSB Cable way the it´s don´t get a Gap , i think a Lift way the usb enter a little more on the Camera.
Good Designed Energy options Direct plug and 12V Exit way the 12V exit not be Cheap crap , i ve see a lot good cameras come whit cheap crap car conection that breaks or get gaps.
 
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niko said:
jokiin said:
thanks for the confidence boost :) we will do a WDR model as well, might not be our next model though as there's some issues with WDR that need to be resolved which will take us a little bit of time to get sorted, working on a couple of models at the moment to try and cover a few different market needs, can't get it all in one design unfortunately (I wish we could), we're working on improving things though

If CMOS and CPU is right, then WDR can be added in any other later stage. Its just a matter of firmware update as long as CMOS supports WDR needs ( 100 -120db ).
Quoted from THIS thread, I have something to say.

This begs the question that if the cam(s) that are being developed (looking at you jokiin) have the proper CMOS, then WDR can always be added later. Why not just produce all the cams that have a capable CMOS and proper requirements where the WDR would really shine?

To me, this means that the camera will be of such a great quality already, that when the firmware update occurs that has the WDR feature, it'll be like a completely new camera again.

Niko, I like you. You make me think. I like people who make me think.
 
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sofaspud

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Well, if we are being asked to write to Santa then some ideas I would like to see in a device:
I'll avoid any reference to hardware as I simply do not know (or care) what is used, rather the perfomance & reliability is what matters.

For me its a dual camera device that uses remote mounted cameras with the box hidden elsewhere in the car.
Just the main unit, & 2 remote (& discrete) cameras(one with a GPS housed in its mount?)

Primary interest is the quality of the recording, the Livue seems to 'suffer' from both pixellation(esp when there are trees in the view) & dynamic range on the rare occassion we get sunshine ;)
minimal mounting bracketry to get the lense as near to the screen as possible, the Livue mounts are such that it ends up being surprisingly bulky & restricts the possible locations for it
Good focal length, I have found that I can focus a camera on near or far, but not both. I understand its a trade off, but can it be improved on whats out there now?
GPS to give vehicle speed, I've previously had an incident where the Police became involved & I could show them my speed was constant & legal.
(It would be nice if this could be overlaid onto the recorded images to avoid the need to use proprietary viewer software) This could also be used to set the time on the device.
No screen, instead AV out for the dash (or other) screen if I want to see the camera views.
switch on/off audio(recording & anouncements)
Ability to use different settings file for different use, e.g.
day/night
general driving/parking mode

So, I would end up with a device hidden in the car that possibly had some external connections to allow say;
remote 'event' button,
detection of whether car lights were on/off,
detection of power (perm/acc power) to switch between normal/parking.
Along with 2 discrete cameras for the windscreen front & rear
12v supply(avoid the need to use the external 12 to 5 converters)

Do I believe in Santa?
We'll know by Christmas :)
 

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WhiteEightBall said:
niko said:
jokiin said:
thanks for the confidence boost :) we will do a WDR model as well, might not be our next model though as there's some issues with WDR that need to be resolved which will take us a little bit of time to get sorted, working on a couple of models at the moment to try and cover a few different market needs, can't get it all in one design unfortunately (I wish we could), we're working on improving things though

If CMOS and CPU is right, then WDR can be added in any other later stage. Its just a matter of firmware update as long as CMOS supports WDR needs ( 100 -120db ).
Quoted from THIS thread, I have something to say.

This begs the question that if the cam(s) that are being developed (looking at you jokiin) have the proper CMOS, then WDR can always be added later. Why not just produce all the cams that have a capable CMOS and proper requirements where the WDR would really shine?

To me, this means that the camera will be of such a great quality already, that when the firmware update occurs that has the WDR feature, it'll be like a completely new camera again.

Niko, I like you. You make me think. I like people who make me think.

Thanks. We all here learn from info we share with each other. That is the purpose of all forums.

Full potential of WDR can be implemented in 2 ways:

1. CMOS which process 100-120db + Higher level cpu which allows via firmware to process WDR.

2. Proper CMOS + mid-level CPU ( like Tiotech current wdr series ) + on the PCB added special separate chip responsible for WDR processing this way not overloading main CPU and spreading WDR commands onto special separate chip.

So, all dash cams which have good cpu and proper cmos, they all may have WDR via firmware update.
 
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FSC830

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WhiteEightBall said:
...
EDIT: Actually I think I get the idea. The closer the distance from the windshield and the Camera lense, the better? Right?

I see, we (all of you) have a lot of ideas :D .
The origin idea behind the "close installation" has 2 intentions:
1st: yes, put the cam as close as possible to the glass to minimize the range of the dash covering the videos and
2nd: I hate this really big things (you call it a steal-me-cam ;) ) with suction cups or other mountings with inches from the mount to the cam.
So "close installation" means also a slim-line design.

Also an idea: why not separating the lense from the main body. Put a small lense at the screen (the housing may be can contain the GPS receiver as well) and hide the main body with operating buttons somewhere.
Even small cameras are sometimes not small enough to hide behind the rear view mirror.
My car for example is equipped with some stuff (not ordered but installed by default) that uses some sensors in the rear side of the rear mirror (i.e. for rain and high beam), so I cant place the cam there.
I have got the luck that the sensors are all at the same side and in the center, so I could mount the cam at the other side behind the mirror.
But for some cars you do not have this option. But to place only a small housing with a lense/GPS is in most cases possible.

Regards
 

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Remotely located DVR (glove box or under dash?)
Dual lens, each with long lead.
Each lens recording to its own SD card - preferably full sized as these tend to be cheaper.
Either put a small LCD screen in the DVR to allow positioning of lenses, changing settings etc
OR bluetooth capable to connect with smartphones / laptops / tablets.
Actually, if the DVR has a decent sized screen (3" - 4"?), the unit could also be sold as a reversing cam - as long as there is a feature in settings for rear cam to be 'always on screen' (my current dual cam defaults to main (front) cam)

Best quality video, decent quality audio - build it right, build it once (unlike the DR32 fiasco!)
Maybe build a range of units (or have add-ons) for those who want GPS, shock senors, parking mode etc.

Not wanting much but a reasonable price point would be a huge bonus. If you could bring it in under $150 with the 'add-ons' costing a few $$ more then I reckon these would be a huge hit.
 

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I like the idea and form factor of Russian company Cansonic ( manufactured in Taiwan ) Cansonic cdv-800
If size would be slightly smaller and some technical specs better, then it would be dash cam choice of many buyers.

Video reviews, unboxing, videos etc :

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_q ... 5Xxj_UAo6I

For more info on specs and reviews on russian forums please Google and use Google translator

https://www.google.ie/webhp?source=sear ... =p&pdl=300
 

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sludgeguts

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I prefer the F70 over that cansonic. It can be mounted really close to the windscreen & the lens can be rotated to suit the angle.

Do people actually rate / use their G-sensor info? I just see it as more stuff for the camera to worry about.
 

niko

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F70 can rotate lens only vertically.
This one here rotates in all directions.
In Russia ( and for many other countries people ) it is very important to have horizontal rotating camera in case need to record discussion with policeman ( turn camera left or right ).
From all mini size dash cams I know that can rotate 360 degree, has display and with good specs, this is the smallest size, however size could be even smaller and some specs improved.
 

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The discussion will be picked up though. And a lot of coppers might take offence at being videoed, Even over here, there have been occasions when police have confiscated video equipment.

Just looking closer at the pic - it doesn't look like the camera will rotate sideways very well (if it stuck to the screen, that mount doesn't look like you will be able to point the lens through a side window. The 360 deg rotation only looks to be around the one axis (so lens facing forwards) ?
 

niko

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sludgeguts said:
The discussion will be picked up though. And a lot of coppers might take offence at being videoed, Even over here, there have been occasions when police have confiscated video equipment

There is a law in most modern democratic countries that you can film anything and anybody within your property ( car is your property ) or nearby and if you tell that person ( policeman who approaches you ) that you are recording him. It is the same as if you call to any financial institution and first you hear: " ... calls maybe recorded for training and quality purpose ". Same with your dash cam recordings, - you can record if it is not fully banned by law like recently Austria did.
 

jokiin

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(collectively) quite a lot of what we have planned has been covered in this thread, a couple of people are very on the money
 

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sludgeguts said:
Do people actually rate / use their G-sensor info? I just see it as more stuff for the camera to worry about.
For me, yes. When I needed it it was there & proved to the satisfaction of the Police I was at the time driving correctly.
If we are using these things to support our position in the event of an accident then why not have it available?
I appreciate some would rather not have GPS so optional is probably the best solution, as long as it was included in the design to avoid yet another bit stuck to the dash/screen(e.g. in the mounting)
 

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sofaspud said:
sludgeguts said:
Do people actually rate / use their G-sensor info? I just see it as more stuff for the camera to worry about.
For me, yes. When I needed it it was there & proved to the satisfaction of the Police I was at the time driving correctly.
If we are using these things to support our position in the event of an accident then why not have it available?
I appreciate some would rather not have GPS so optional is probably the best solution, as long as it was included in the design to avoid yet another bit stuck to the dash/screen(e.g. in the mounting)

Court will not accept gps, g-sensor, speed, etc readings from devices that are not certified by that country institutions. So those extras are more for you own self confidence to know you were right about speed / gps etc, but not for court.
 
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