Is battery explosion a real concern? I can't seem to find conclusive evidence of it happening.

[Shaken]

Everyone seems to be really afraid of the whole explosion thing, but besides hearing about a gps or two from a long time ago, it seems that dash cams or gps's almost never have a problem. Is there a studied temperature for when these things would actually blow?

 

[USDashCamera]

my INNOVV C2 battery bloated and started leaking battery acid after getting too hot. i don't think they actually blow up like an explosion but popping with battery acid everywhere wouldnt be very nice.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

This has be discussed in the past but I can't find the nice thread that was going on awhile back.

Putting an "Action Cam" with a battery into a Green House effected hot car environment isn't good. I doubt it will "explode" but it will leak and ruin your electronics.

A true quality high end DashCam appliance will use a super capacitor rather than a battery to gracefully close recording files in progress should the main power get cut. They are designed for 24/7 parking mode operation and can take the heat.

 

[jokiin]

Everyone seems to be really afraid of the whole explosion thing, but besides hearing about a gps or two from a long time ago, it seems that dash cams or gps's almost never have a problem. Is there a studied temperature for when these things would actually blow?

If left in a hot environment most often they'll just swell and leak, if they're powered at the time though is when it becomes a fire risk, that's why parking mode/constant power is not recommend for models with a battery

 

[Nigel]

 

[Razer]

I know it's a real danger with flashlights as they will "vent with flame" from the cr123 lithium batteries from time to time. Not something you want to happen with a light in your pocket....

With flashlights it's common because if the two lithium batteries are not at the exact same level of charge then bad things happen. People forget and just drop in one battery, or grab two differing cells from a drawer and toss them in and the get a small boom later. In a light it will blow out the lens or tail cap hopefully, but you have a very robust metal container that will at time contain until it cannot and then pop more severely.

With a dash cam usually you only have one cell, but yes, it could happen. Odds are way against it of course, but it is a real danger. I prefer caps myself if at all possible and wish more cameras had the option from the factory for dash cams specifically. The bigger issue is the battery just not lasting in the heat and cold, lifespan is weakened severely. That will happen to them all, hopefully fires are much, much more rare.

 

[Pariah Zero]

Modern batteries for smartphones, cameras, tablets, laptop computers, etc. are a technology called Lithium Polymer batteries (or Lipo for short). Lipos batteries are pretty awesome: They're flat, hold a huge amount of power, they don't self-discharge, and they don't have 'charge memories'. They're also fragile, easy to damage, and very dangerous when mistreated.

If you like your device (or your car) , it's worth the trip back to your car to remove it on a hot day. Leaving Lipos in a hot car is dangerous.

Period.

• The odds of an explosion is almost zero. (at least an explosion more powerful than a party balloon popping)
• The odds of a chemical leak almost zero.
• The odds of collateral damage (ie. your car, or house) is moderate.
• The odds of your device being destroyed is high.
  
• Significantly shortening the life of the battery is certain.

If you want to see what happens when Lithium Polymer batteries overheat, Google image search for "Lipo Fire" - you'll probably get lots of pictures of radio-controlled vehicle batteries. Alternatively look at the results from a YouTube - search for "Lipo Fire".

• LiPo batteries blow up like balloons, vent from a corner, and catch fire.
• The smell is horrible, which is good because the smoke is also highly toxic.

A good quote from an Radio Controlled Hobby Forum:

LiPo cells will get damaged by external heat. Most manufacturers recommend keeping the cells under 60 deg C or 176 deg F. In my experience, a cell will start to balloon up and the layers start to delaminate once the temperature rises above 90 deg C (194 deg F). If the temperature is extremely severe – the cell will go into thermal runaway and you will have a flaming mess. The thermal volatility is directly related to the cell chemistry. LiCoO2 is the industry standard and unfortunately, the most volatile. LiFePO4 (used in most power tools) is the least volatile and LiMnO4 Spinel (used by Apogee) is somewhere in between. Many of the responsible LiPo manufacturers are using mixtures and additives to LiCoO2 to decrease volatility at the expense of voltage output. Unfortunately, most manufacturers still use pure LiCoO2 since it seems to make the most power.​

The quote talks about battery "balloon up". This is caused by the battery producing Hydrogen. The cell, normally flat and about 2-5mm thick, will puff up to several times its original thickness. The 'bag' the battery is in is pretty tough stuff. This doesn't work out well if the battery is housed in a tight container, such as the inside of the camera, or phone. It'll break the device at a minimum, and runs the risk of the Hydrogen venting and igniting.

90 C is pretty hot, but if your camera is in the sun, and sealed in a hot car, it's not unreasonable to reach 60-70 C. Repeated exposure (ie. every single day in the sun) permanently damages the battery. Charging or discharging the battery also increases its internal temperature.

If you get the internal temperature of the battery above 187 C (which is probably not attainable in a hot car), it'll start a runaway thermal reaction. Like thermite, it can't be put out. Like thermite, it's hot enough to melt metal.

One final note: Radio Controlled vehicles are extreme examples. Consumer electronics have charge, discharge, and temperature circuitry to 'protect' the battery. Radio Controlled batteries have none of that - it's just the battery.

 

[Dashmellow]

Lithium-ion (and Li-Po) Safety Concerns

 

[road_rascal]

I think most phones, laptops, etc use Lithium Ion batteries. I have yet to see a commercial application for Lithium Polymer (Lipo) batteries. I use lipos in my RC planes and trucks and have yet to experience a catastrophic failure. I've gone so far as charging a faulty lipo pack then shooting it with a .22 long rifle round. Never had a flame shoot from one but lots of very toxic smoke. Most lipo fires occur due to mischarging them.

 

[Dashmellow]

I think most phones, laptops, etc use Lithium Ion batteries. I have yet to see a commercial application for Lithium Polymer (Lipo) batteries. I use lipos in my RC planes and trucks and have yet to experience a catastrophic failure. I've gone so far as charging a faulty lipo pack then shooting it with a .22 long rifle round. Never had a flame shoot from one but lots of very toxic smoke. Most lipo fires occur due to mischarging them.

Lithium Polymer batteries are Lithium-ion batteries, only in pouch format. There are many commercial applications for LiPos. For example, Lithium Polymer is what is used in the iPad.

 

[Pariah Zero]

Every cell phone I've owned had a Lipo battery. Every tablet I know of has a Lipo battery. MacBooks have had Lipos for years (my 2007 macbook has lipos, (I've pulled apart old batteries).

Dashmellow is right: A lipo cell is a rectangular, flat, pouch. A lithium ion cell is in a familiar cylinder.

 

[Nigel]

Lithium Polymer batteries are Lithium-ion batteries, only in pouch format. There are many commercial applications for LiPos. For example, Lithium Polymer is what is used in the iPad.

Unfortunately the term LiPo is often used to indicate the format of the packaging, not the contents. So a battery referred to as a LiPo is not necessarily a Lithium Polymer battery!

 

[Dashmellow]

Unfortunately the term LiPo is often used to indicate the format of the packaging, not the contents. So a battery referred to as a LiPo is not necessarily a Lithium Polymer battery!

I'm not sure what you mean here. What other commonly available battery type comes packaged in pouch/prismatic format other than Li-polymer? Do you have any specific examples of a pouch/prismatic type battery being referred to as LiPo that is not a LiPo?

 

[Nigel]

I'm not sure what you mean here. What other commonly available battery type comes packaged in pouch/prismatic format other than Li-polymer? Do you have any specific examples of a pouch/prismatic type battery being referred to as LiPo that is not a LiPo?

Wikipedia:

some manufacturers started applying the "polymer" denomination to lithium-ion cells in pouch format. This is the most extended use nowadays, where "polymer" went from indicating a "polymer electrolyte" to mean a "polymer casing", that is, the soft, external pouch. While the design is usually flat, and lightweight, it is not a true polymer cell, as the electrolyte is still in liquid form, albeit it may be "plasticized" or "gelled" through a polymer additive. These cells are sometimes known as "LiPo", however, from the technological point of view, they are the same as the ones marketed simply as "Li-ion", as the underlying electrochemistry is the same.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery

 

[kamkar]

Lipo battery dont explode as i undestand explosion, but it will swell up and make a pop sound if its confined in somthing strong.
Normally it will just swell up and then leak some foul smelling smoke, a small battery like the ones used in dashcams should not be a problem, especially if the dashcam are made with flame retardent plastic and the camera is mountes on the windscreen some distance from flameable material in the car.

Last week me and my friend was out practicing our "sniper" skills with our pcp air-rifles, and we had a couple of dead lipo batteries with us to shoot on, we where both disserpointed how Little smoke they released, one 3 cell dident even smoke - a 2 cell smoked a Little but not more than it could have filled a glove compartment - the 2 1 cell batteries ( 5200 mah and the smallest of the bunch ) hardly smoked either.

We did videotape the batteries while we shot them, but it was so sad we both have deleted our footage.

PS. after the shooting of the batteries we let then fizz out for 4 hours, then we put them in a lipo charge back and took them home for proper disposal, witch was done the day after.

Lipos are a nono with temperatures over 60 deg C, and a car get to that temperature on a hot summer day, Capasitor cameras are the way to go at least if you live between the polar circles

There are some videos of ppl killing lipo batteries on youtube, a strong charge current can make Things interesting for sure but the small 1 cell dashcam batteries and the moderate charge rates i assume they get should not be a explosive mix.

 

[Dashmellow]

Wikipedia:

some manufacturers started applying the "polymer" denomination to lithium-ion cells in pouch format. This is the most extended use nowadays, where "polymer" went from indicating a "polymer electrolyte" to mean a "polymer casing", that is, the soft, external pouch. While the design is usually flat, and lightweight, it is not a true polymer cell, as the electrolyte is still in liquid form, albeit it may be "plasticized" or "gelled" through a polymer additive. These cells are sometimes known as "LiPo", however, from the technological point of view, they are the same as the ones marketed simply as "Li-ion", as the underlying electrochemistry is the same.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_polymer_battery

My post asked for examples of "commonly available" pouch type batteries other than LiPos but it's true, what are commonly referred to today as lithium polymer are not actually that and the chemistry was never actually brought to market. For better or worse we are stuck with the term lithium polymer to refer to soft envelope packaged lithium which brings us back to the statement that they are are essentially the same thing as lithium-ion cells. As @kamkar1 mentions they tend to swell rather than blow up. The cylindrical lithium-ions have had a greater tendency to "explode" because they are encased in a hard "shell" but the newer designs have vents that can release expanding gases for greater safety and both batteries types more often than previously include built in improved protection circuits that help with overcharging, short circuits, reverse polarity and I believe some of the latest ones even have thermistor controlled overheating protection (disconnect).

 

[kamkar]

There is cases of tablets and laptops more or less blowing up or spew out flames, but these things are allso fitted with much larger batteries, and in the case of many laptop faliures its my undestanding they often happen when the user is on the machine and charging it at the same time.

Allso remember the staggering amount of devises out there witch is powered by these batteries, the catastrophic faliure rate is pretty small.

Its not just for fun there have been laptop coolers around for allmost as long as laptops, they are more or less a foundation with a couple of fans that blow up onto the laptop.

I have no idea what kind of hardware there is in my HTC 8S smartphone, but just surfing on it for 15 - 20 minutes make it a lot hotter.

There might allso be better batteries in the pipeline, i recently read about som new technology witch would half the weight and duble the capacity of batteries.

As with most things aside for politics, things move forward at a staggering pace, just a fjew hours ago i was reading on the net and remembered when 2 billion transistors in a CPU was mindboggeling awsome.

The round AA style lipo batteries for my insane HID torch have build in discharge protection, and i assume it allso cover the charging as the chager seem pretty mondane compared to the charger i use for my RC lipo batteries, and allso the batteries for the torch dont have a balancer plug like on my RC batteries.

 

[jokiin]

do they explode, no, I think explode is a bit of an over exaggeration, can they catch fire though, yes, it can happen

I'd say that most vehicles don't have fire proof interiors so the risk really if the thing were to suffer a meltdown is the collateral damage that could occur to whatever is nearby, eg; this thread https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/givoe-and-jerome-zhan.7246/

 

[Dashmellow]

do they explode, no, I think explode is a bit of an over exaggeration, can they catch fire though, yes, it can happen

I'd say that most vehicles don't have fire proof interiors so the risk really if the thing were to suffer a meltdown is the collateral damage that could occur to whatever is nearby, eg; this thread https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/givoe-and-jerome-zhan.7246/

I think you are right about explosions being an exaggeration. Usually, there is a runaway electrochemical reaction in a battery that vents forcefully and catches fire. If this happens fast enough it can "pop" with a good deal of heat and force but it's not actually an explosion in the true sense. This is especially true of the foil packaged li-polymers, compared to the cylindrical batteries which can have more of a tendency to build up pressure inside before failing. Many of the reports of lithium-ion explosions have been in situations where batteries have vented inside tightly enclosed devices like flashlights, where the device actually explodes from the pressure building up inside rather than the batteries themselves actually exploding.

 

[mrebay10]

So as an a118/b40 owner would you recommend that the dash cam not be left in place in the car full-time? Would it be best to store it in the glove box when not being used for a few days or completely remove it from the car?

 

[Dionic90]

leaving it in the glove box would be sure to heat it up more, unless you have an air conditioned glove box.

if you are in doubt, the only safe way is to fully remove the unit from the vehicle.