Is there such a thing as a dashcam with a true Collision Avoidance System (CAS)?

blackjackel

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I've seen some cameras out there that claim to have a front collision avoidance system, but what I've seen from the youtube videos they don't work by sensing how fast the car is coming at you... they only work by sensing that a car is too close... Meaning that if you are in traffic it will annoyingly keep beeping at you, or annoyingly beep at you when someone switches lanes in front of you...etc.

Are there any cameras that warn you based on how fast a car is approaching ahead of you? If it exists, which is the best dashcam that does this? I'm going to disregard all other features so it doesn't matter what else I want to use it fot, let's say for the sake of argument that I'm ONLY looking for front collision detection.
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
There are collision warning systems that work ok, that's all they do though, the ones built into dashcams are a gimmick at best
 

Gibson99

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There are collision warning systems that work ok, that's all they do though, the ones built into dashcams are a gimmick at best
as are the "lane departure warning systems". they don't know you're signaling or simply turning left/right, so they'll yell at you any time you turn the wheel. thanks, i'll pass.
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
as are the "lane departure warning systems". they don't know you're signaling or simply turning left/right, so they'll yell at you any time you turn the wheel. thanks, i'll pass.
If it's integrated into the vehicle and has input from the ECU, VSS, brakes, indicators etc then sure, it could be useful

As an aftermarket accessory though forget about it, with current technology it's just a poorly thought out marketing gimmick
 

ddnut

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The technology is not there and besides this is the wrong product for your need. A dashcam is just that - a camera. A true collision avoidance system needs to be integrated into the car - brakes and steering. To properly judge distance, you would actually need dual front-facing cameras to achieve stereo vision.

With the current crop of dashcams the best you will get is a warning that you are 1) following too closely and you should slow down, or 2) drifted into the next lane but we have rumble strips for that.

I am surprised that the dashcam makers would want to open themselves up for the liability. Some idiot will come along and claim that the faulty "collision avoidance system" failed to notify them in time. After all, we have to use coffee cups that say "CAUTION: Contents are HOT" o_O
 

Sabe

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Get real guys,
if volvo can't do it with millions of dollars,
how some small chinese 30$ camera maker could.

Better keep your eyes open and leave facebook and twitter to home.
 

Dashmellow

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There are collision warning systems that work ok, that's all they do though, the ones built into dashcams are a gimmick at best
You raise a good point, but who is really responsible for the "gimmickry". These dash cam collision warning systems and lane departure systems are available in dash cams only because this capability is built into (for example) the most recent line of Ambarella A7LA automotive DSPs. Ambarella is a company not generally known for indulging such research and development efforts into "gimmicks" when they build such sophisticated products.........Or maybe they are?

Certainly, if the technology already exists in the supplied chips, it doesn't seem surprising that some dash cam manufacturers would go ahead and deploy it if it is readily available to them.
 
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Dashmellow

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Get real guys,
if volvo can't do it with millions of dollars,
how some small chinese 30$ camera maker could.
As I mentioned in my previous post, it's not the small Chinese dash cam manufacturers who developed this technology, it is the chip manufacturers like Ambarella. That still doesn't mean it is a worthwhile technology for dash cams, it just means the Chinese dash cam manufacturers are not really the ones to blame if it doesn't work so well.

Anyway, I don't know about Volvo but my understanding is that Mercedes along with a number of other car manufacturers have this technology working pretty reliably. There is a rating system from 1-6. Some vehicles do poorly and others perform quite well.

I try to maintain some perspective when I see stuff on the internet. A single YouTube video of a failed test doesn't necessarily mean the technology isn't viable.
 
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Nigel

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Get real guys,
if volvo can't do it with millions of dollars,
how some small chinese 30$ camera maker could.

Better keep your eyes open and leave facebook and twitter to home.
That wasn't the best choice of car maker!

Do you realise that Volvo is a small Chinese owned car maker?
 

Nigel

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You raise a good point, but who is really responsible for the "gimmickery". ...
NCAP, mainly Euro-NCAP is responsible for it all since to get 5 stars in the NCAP award scheme, the automakers now need to fit this gimmickery. Not obtaining the maximum 5 stars can loose them a lot of sales and also reduce what they can sell their cars for thus reducing profits.

In some ways, it is an alternative to making their cars safer in more useful ways.
 

Dashmellow

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NCAP, mainly Euro-NCAP is responsible for it all since to get 5 stars in the NCAP award scheme, the automakers now need to fit this gimmickery. Not obtaining the maximum 5 stars can loose them a lot of sales and also reduce what they can sell their cars for thus reducing profits.

In some ways, it is an alternative to making their cars safer in more useful ways.
@Nigel, I'm afraid you seem to be confusing a couple of things here. My post about who is responsible for any "gimmickry" was in response to @jokiin's remark that "the ones built into dashcams are a gimmick at best" but you seem to be equating the term gimmickry and my post using that word with the technology as it applies to the automobiles themselves. If you read my post again more carefully you will note that I am specifically referring to Ambarella, the developer of the chips used in dash cams that include collision warning systems. In no way was I talking about the government agencies that regulate this capability as a core technology in motor vehicles. Collision avoidance system technology in automobiles is hardly a gimmick at this point, even if it may be so in dash cams. One day it will likely be a standard is all vehicles but at least here in the US that is a long way off.

Unlike in Europe with the NCAP, here in the US such matters are governed by the NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION. There is no government approved "award scheme" here and the rating system I mentioned and linked to is from the insurance industry. Vehicles here simply must comply with the current regulations. As of this time, collision avoidance warning systems are being evaluated but there is no requirement or government incentive to deploy "gimmickry". There is a section of the standards for "Crash Avoidance" (part 571) but as of right now this primarily has to do with brakes, tires, wipers, accelerator control (cruise) etc., etc. There is a regulation regarding "warning systems" but that is mostly all about brake lights and turn signals.

Edit: Apparently, quite recently, on January 22nd, 2015 the Secretary of the US NHTSA announced a "Plan to Add Two Automatic Emergency Braking Systems" to the list of recommended advanced safety features that have been under evaluation. These two new additions include Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) (Collision Warning & Avoidance) and Vehicle-to-Vehicle Communications (V2V). These technologies come under the same safety standards that include air bags, electronic stability and braking systems, (like anti-lock brakes)....and seat belts!
 
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Sabe

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Personally i think that if one needs collision warning systems or whatever he or she should not drive any kind of vehicle on public roads.
Seriously.
 

Dashmellow

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Personally i think that if one needs collision warning systems or whatever he or she should not drive any kind of vehicle on public roads.
Seriously.
I guess I would agree. But then again.......

Some time ago I was driving along a rural two lane paved road near my house and I saw a small burgundy colored car coming towards me from the opposite direction in the other lane. Just as our two cars were about to pass each other I saw something that made my jaw drop and put my heart in my mouth. The driver was a teenage girl. She had the rear view mirror tilted down so she could see herself in it while primping her hair with her right hand. With her left hand she was holding a cell phone to her ear. So, she was not in any way watching the road in front of or behind her vehicle and she had neither hand on the steering wheel!

I'm not so sure a collision avoidance system would help someone like her but it might have helped me! Realistically, I think the value of such systems may be in helping to avoid accidents when someone, even an otherwise good driver gets unexpectedly distracted for some reason like happens to so many so called soccer moms with a car full of unruly kids or perhaps when something suddenly comes into the path of one's vehicle before one can otherwise react.
 

Sabe

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I can see many problems in situation you mentioned.

1. You should keep your eyes open and then you see and understand that situation like you did, then you have time to correct it.

2. Lets say you have collision warning system, it cannot be paranoid so it probably informs you quite late, then you should first look front and try to understand what that warning was for and then you should decide what to do, i think all this takes too much time and all is over once you get in to this situation.

3. Lets say you have collision warning system and some kind of active steering or braking system, then we face problems like how strongly car turns steering wheel and what if you hang on steering wheel by instinct and when computer stops steering will you turn wheel to opposite direction. Or if car is only using brakes then how strongly it uses brakes and when to release brake, what will do cars driving behind you.

I'm not against computer aided systems, but i try to understand problems that comes with them in real life situations, it is quite difficult situation if only half of cars are computer aided and other half not, that is very difficult to handle if some cars have reaction time of 1.0 second and other car 0.01 second.
Therefore i think these warning systems as gimmick too.
 

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i think its a neat feature but in the end pointless. if the collision avoidance system isnt directly connected to your car and able to brake for you what is the point? if you aren't paying attention, by the time it warns you, you will likely not be able to reach in time anyways.

when I was testing the LDWS on the finevu cr-2000g it seemed like it warned me after I already moved lanes, besides the fact that it warns you everytime you move lanes since it doesn't know you are signaling. i would rather dashcam companies put this processing power or work into something more useful.
 

Dashmellow

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i think its a neat feature but in the end pointless. if the collision avoidance system isnt directly connected to your car and able to brake for you what is the point?
Yes, that is one of the things these systems are at least supposed to do, stop your vehicle before you hit something, if you don't do it first. I'm talking car systems here, not dash cams.
 

Dashmellow

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I can see many problems in situation you mentioned.

1. You should keep your eyes open and then you see and understand that situation like you did, then you have time to correct it.

2. Lets say you have collision warning system, it cannot be paranoid so it probably informs you quite late, then you should first look front and try to understand what that warning was for and then you should decide what to do, i think all this takes too much time and all is over once you get in to this situation.

3. Lets say you have collision warning system and some kind of active steering or braking system, then we face problems like how strongly car turns steering wheel and what if you hang on steering wheel by instinct and when computer stops steering will you turn wheel to opposite direction. Or if car is only using brakes then how strongly it uses brakes and when to release brake, what will do cars driving behind you.

I'm not against computer aided systems, but i try to understand problems that comes with them in real life situations, it is quite difficult situation if only half of cars are computer aided and other half not, that is very difficult to handle if some cars have reaction time of 1.0 second and other car 0.01 second.
Therefore i think these warning systems as gimmick too.
You raise some good points. On the other hand, these systems are supposed to be "smart". In other words they will eventually be able to decide how much braking to apply or how much and where to turn the wheel. I guess we'll all have to wait and see what happens when these things evolve and become more common place.

I think this stuff is interesting but I'm not an advocate.
 
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The more tech you cram in, the higher the chance it will go wrong.
Dashcams need to be left well alone. Develop it purely as a device for recording best possible video & decent audio. That is all it needs to do.
 

Dashmellow

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The more tech you cram in, the higher the chance it will go wrong.
Dashcams need to be left well alone. Develop it purely as a device for recording best possible video & decent audio. That is all it needs to do.
Yes, I agree! This is one reason I like the Mobius platform so much.
 

Nigel

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@Nigel, I'm afraid you seem to be confusing a couple of things here. My post about who is responsible for any "gimmickry" was in response to @jokiin's remark that "the ones built into dashcams are a gimmick at best" but you seem to be equating the term gimmickry and my post using that word with the technology as it applies to the automobiles themselves. If you read my post again more carefully you will note that I am specifically referring to Ambarella, the developer of the chips used in dash cams that include collision warning systems. In no way was I talking about the government agencies that regulate this capability as a core technology in motor vehicles. Collision avoidance system technology in automobiles is hardly a gimmick at this point, even if it may be so in dash cams. One day it will likely be a standard is all vehicles but at least here in the US that is a long way off.

Unlike in Europe with the NCAP, here in the US such matters are governed by the NATIONAL HIGHWAY TRAFFIC SAFETY ADMINISTRATION. There is no government approved "award scheme" here and the rating system I mentioned and linked to is from the insurance industry. Vehicles here simply must comply with the current regulations. As of this time, collision avoidance warning systems are being evaluated but there is no requirement or government incentive to deploy "gimmickry". There is a section of the standards for "Crash Avoidance" (part 571) but as of right now this primarily has to do with brakes, tires, wipers, accelerator control (cruise) etc., etc. There is a regulation regarding "warning systems" but that is mostly all about brake lights and turn signals.

Edit: Apparently, quite recently, on January 22nd, 2015 the Secretary of the US NHTSA announced a "Plan to Add Two Automatic Emergency Braking Systems" to the list of recommended advanced safety features that have been under evaluation. These two new additions include Automatic Emergency Braking (AEB) (Collision Warning & Avoidance) and Vehicle-to-Vehicle Communications (V2V). These technologies come under the same safety standards that include air bags, electronic stability and braking systems, (like anti-lock brakes)....and seat belts!
Euro NCAP is not a government scheme, like C-NCAP (China), ANCAP (Australasia) and I assume most of the other systems based on it, it is supposedly independent and the people who run it keep themselves in jobs by pushing for continuously improving safety which these days is mainly in the form of electronic gimmickry. It was originally set up by the UK Department for Transport, Transport Research Laboratory to improve safety standards but it is independent and not mandatory. We do have mandatory government standards and tests which cars have to pass before they can be sold but E-NCAP is nothing to do with them.

I don't think we would be seeing LDWS and the like built into dashcams if it wasn't already build into the processors/firmware because of the potentially massively profitable sales to the automotive market because of the extra star points for E-NCAP and the like.
 
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