It's 2020. I want a 4K60FPS dashcam!

Omega-TI

Member
Joined
May 6, 2019
Messages
96
Reaction score
30
Country
United States
Dash Cam
BlackVue DR900S-2CH
Real life and video are different as well. Now the truth is most people can detect a difference between 30fps and 60fps if the video is played back in slow motion, but at regular speeds most people will not notice the difference. Another thing comes into play as well... your monitor refresh rate. There is not much point in recording at a higher rate than what your monitor can display.

Size of the video file is also a factor some need to take into account as well as ones Internet speed. Some people have slower Internet speeds due to cost or locality, which prevents them from watching 4K video files at 60fps without irritating pauses. Also uploading a huge video file can take HOURS if ones upload speeds are throttled.
 
Last edited:

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,555
Reaction score
15,073
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
monitor refresh rate

Indeed the same go for gaming, when i played a lot i played with lowered graphics and 200 FPS in the game, and the monitor set to a resolution that had no problem handling 200 Hz refresh rate.
My current monitor ( my first ever flat screen ) can go up to 144 Hz if need be, but it is still only 1080p
In the old days watching my friends play the same game as i played but on old school 60Hz LCD screens i was like " how can you play on this garbage and not get a headache"
 

SawMaster

Well-Known Member
Joined
Apr 10, 2015
Messages
7,343
Reaction score
6,466
Location
SC
Country
United States
Dash Cam
G1W-S, G1W-HC, G1W clone, B1W, K2S, B2W, (ex N2Pro & Mobius)
60FPS can have advantages if there's enough light- the same can be said about 4K :) But our problem is that we also need night-time footage and these both fare less well then :(

With the current SOC approach to dashcams, any progress will be incremental and slow; nothing will be ever close to cutting-edge :cautious: So it's going to be a couple more years before 4K gets well sorted out for dashcams, and that will probably take a next-generation processor better able to deal with the data-load without overheating.

Phil
 

Ormy

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
33
Reaction score
19
Location
UK
Country
United Kingdom
30fps is good enough for the limitations of the human eye, in fact most movies display at only 24fps

Speak for yourself. I use frame interpolation software (link) to interpolate frames and output smooth 60fps video from 24/30fps input. I love it. I couldn't go back to watching films without it. And I can tell instantly if it's not working for some reason. The difference between 30 and 60fps is very obvious when you know what to look for.

May not be particularly relevant to dashcams but I thought I'd point it out anyway.
 

Nigel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
12,258
Reaction score
6,224
Location
Devon
Country
United Kingdom
Dash Cam
Gitup F1, A129, B1W, B2W
Speak for yourself. I use frame interpolation software (link) to interpolate frames and output smooth 60fps video from 24/30fps input. I love it. I couldn't go back to watching films without it. And I can tell instantly if it's not working for some reason. The difference between 30 and 60fps is very obvious when you know what to look for.

May not be particularly relevant to dashcams but I thought I'd point it out anyway.
So why do you need to record in 60fps if you can watch 30fps video in great 60fps anyway?

I do sometimes convert my 30fps dashcam video to 60fps using frame interpolation, gives good results. Also if I have some slow motion, 30fps slowed down to 15fps and then interpolated back to 30fps looks much better than the 15fps.

In this example I had some timelapse which looks much better at 60fps, so I interpolated everything else to 60fps as well:
 

Shiwarrior

Member
Joined
Nov 23, 2019
Messages
32
Reaction score
12
Location
Oxfordshire
Country
United Kingdom
so why does my monitor now do 144 Hz / 100 + fps = much smoother than it was at 60 fps
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,555
Reaction score
15,073
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
It is also smoother to look at. though most people will probably not notice this, and it is of course also a big advantage when playing competitive on the computer, when i played single player i had the GFX settings as high as i could to make the game look good, but for multiplayer they was way down.
But you cant obsess too much about these things or you will have problems watching TV or going to a movie, as these often still run at very basic frame rates.
 

Ormy

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
33
Reaction score
19
Location
UK
Country
United Kingdom
So why do you need to record in 60fps if you can watch 30fps video in great 60fps anyway?

The frame interpolation I use for TV/films only gives the illusion of smoothness, it is an excellent and convincing illusion but obviously it cannot recover lost information anymore than re-encoding a low bitrate mp3 to a higher bitrate can recover lost information, it just interpolates.

If I'm trying to pick out a number plate of a fast moving vehicle in the distance on dashcam footage, frame interpolation would not be any help. I carefully move the footage forward frame by frame trying to read a moving numberplate. If the plate is right on the edge of being borderline readable, I find it is often pot-luck if a particular frame happens to be slightly less blurry and makes the plate just about readable. If the camera recorded in twice the framerate then; a) because the exposure time for each frame is halved there should be less motion blur in each frame, and b) I'd have twice as many chances to get lucky and find a less-blurry frame (assuming the optics can gather enough light in half the time).
 

Nigel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
12,258
Reaction score
6,224
Location
Devon
Country
United Kingdom
Dash Cam
Gitup F1, A129, B1W, B2W
If the camera recorded in twice the framerate then because the exposure time for each frame is halved there should be less motion blur in each frame,
That is not how it works, exposure time is independent of frame rate.
 

Ormy

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
33
Reaction score
19
Location
UK
Country
United Kingdom
That is not how it works, exposure time is independent of frame rate.

In good light conditions, yes. But I thought exposure time was limited by the frame rate in low light conditions for small sensors such as those is dashcams and phones?
 

Nigel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
12,258
Reaction score
6,224
Location
Devon
Country
United Kingdom
Dash Cam
Gitup F1, A129, B1W, B2W
In good light conditions, yes. But I thought exposure time was limited by the frame rate in low light conditions for small sensors such as those is dashcams and phones?
If there is enough light to get a good exposure at the faster frame rate then there is no need for a longer exposure at slower frame rates, so why would the camera use a slower exposure? If there isn't enough light for a good exposure at the faster frame rate then you don't want to use the faster frame rate because you won't be able to see!
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,555
Reaction score
15,073
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
If you are filming 30 FPS, then your camera can not go slower exposures than 1:30 second to capture 30 frames in a second, so if you change to 60 FPS the camera can not use a slower exposure then 1:60 second, and thats a 50% difference in exposure speed so your footage will get darker cuz the camera are probably already at the highest ISO setting and aperture are fixed so you cant change that to let more light into the sensor.

Now if a camera had a ISO overhead or a option to let even more light in then sure 60 FPS would probably be just as good and maybe a little better, but that is not the case in dashcams, and they will hit that 1:30 second exposure time long before it get pitch black.
My experimenting with 2 similar dashcams over several weeks with one on 30 FPS and the other on 60 FPS was at best marginal the 60 FPS camera was better at capturing plates.
So my idea all those years ago ( that 60 FPS just got to have to be the best in dashcams ) well i had to shelf that.
Of course 60 FPS let you slow down action 50% but really i can not be bothered with that in my uploads, and if it was a option in the footage i have shared with police now and then, they can bloody slow it down if they want to.
 

Ormy

Member
Joined
May 16, 2019
Messages
33
Reaction score
19
Location
UK
Country
United Kingdom
If there is enough light to get a good exposure at the faster frame rate then there is no need for a longer exposure at slower frame rates, so why would the camera use a slower exposure? If there isn't enough light for a good exposure at the faster frame rate then you don't want to use the faster frame rate because you won't be able to see!

I see. If the manufacturers went to 60fps (for marketing reasons) that would force them to use a bigger sensor to get more light which would result in better quality over all, right?
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,555
Reaction score
15,073
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
Even on a splendid summer day with clear skies and the sun beating down, drive into the shade of trees or buildings, and BOOM the plates you was capturing out in the sun just before are a blur now.
And thats in the middle of the day though in shade, at night it get even worse.
 

Nigel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
12,258
Reaction score
6,224
Location
Devon
Country
United Kingdom
Dash Cam
Gitup F1, A129, B1W, B2W
I see. If the manufacturers went to 60fps (for marketing reasons) that would force them to use a bigger sensor to get more light which would result in better quality over all, right?
More likely they increase the ISO and end up with noisy images, and then add noise reduction producing blurry images.
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,555
Reaction score
15,073
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
you can see it in this video around 1:10, there are 2 cars captures in the shade, and those 2 plates are a mess, other ones are okay though others are also a bit in the shade.
Green trees at the side of the road also fool camera to drop exposure timing.

 

Nigel

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2014
Messages
12,258
Reaction score
6,224
Location
Devon
Country
United Kingdom
Dash Cam
Gitup F1, A129, B1W, B2W
I find it is often pot-luck if a particular frame happens to be slightly less blurry and makes the plate just about readable.
If you upgrade your 1080 camera to 4K then it can see twice the distance, and at that distance you get far more time to read the plates, not just 2x, and thus do not need the faster frame rate. The 4K cameras struggle a bit in low light, currently the best compromise seems to be at 2K.
 

LeJerk

New Member
Joined
Apr 7, 2014
Messages
25
Reaction score
9
Country
United States
There is no need for 60fps in a dashcam,

That's your opinion. Some people would like the option of smoother video. Don't say something isn't necessary, it removes features from other people that may want them. That's like saying there's no need for power windows in car.
 

kamkar

Well-Known Member
Joined
Oct 11, 2013
Messages
26,555
Reaction score
15,073
Country
Denmark
Dash Cam
10 years, many dashcams
There is no need for power windows in a car, or ABS - TRC - ATC and whatever they put in nowadays, but that is of course just my personal opinion, and sadly i can not buy a car with all that stuff and save a little money and weight.
Aircon i do like, not least when summer once in a while hit Denmark good, but my car dont have it, as when i got it in 2012 it was a expensive extra, but FF a few years and it was the norm and my car was actually a lot cheaper too :cry:

As you can guess, i am also not a guy that have or want a smart home, i can tweak my heating manual just fine and what ever they have to offer up as smart these days.
Very old school on some stuff, and on other tech stuff i am very much on the ball.
I HATE smart phones, but ATM i do carry one, for the sake of my dear old mother, i do think when she are gone so will my phone, already from the late 90ties and about 10 years on i was with no cellphone and it was no problem at all.
 

RaybanRJ

Active Member
Joined
Aug 3, 2018
Messages
128
Reaction score
32
Country
Canada
All I want is a smaller one with motion detection that is budget priced like my aging RSC Nano with at least 1080 p and that is getting harder to find.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
D General Dash Cam Discussion 9
Top