JooVuu X2: New Feature: Light Sensor

[JooVuu]

Well we have certainly been quiet, and that’s completely on purpose. We don’t want to announce things that aren’t ready and over hyped, but I also understand that people are genuinely interested in the product and want to know. I was a little bit foolish in ‘teasing’ on DCT about a new feature but I believe we are ready to announce something that is new.

Our next camera will have a light sensor.

Yep – a bit anti-climatic, how is that going to be good? What does that even do?

Well it’s not revolutionary but evolutionary. Image quality is Queen and that’s what our next camera is focused towards. The light sensor allows us an unprecedented tool for changing and altering the image quality quickly and accurately. We can take averages, spot metering’s, further readings, and so much information and as such we have implemented a system that tweaks, contrast, saturation, white balance, RGB, ISO, sharpness and all literally within microseconds.

However, why we introduced the light sensor was for one simple reason. The Timed Mode needs an upgrade, and as such our timed mode will become automatic (if you choose it to be). This means it will detect when conditions are dark and switch to the best settings. It can now distinguish between dark city and dark country (no lights). Before people raise the issue of tunnels, we have anticipated this problem and put redundancies in place, these redundancies will need to be thoroughly tested which is where our beta testers come into play.

There are so many possibilities we have for a light sensor that we want to do, but we won’t be announcing these features until they are implemented and full tested. I understand this is not a huge feature, but I hope it gives you an idea on what we are working on.

As soon as we can announce new features we will J

Kind regards,



Dan

 

[Yooshaw]

Sounds interesting, looking forward to seeing it's implementation.

 

[lacibaci]

I wonder if the same functionality could be achieved with just software. You already have a light sensor - it is the lens. By analyzing image and ISO it should be easy to determine the light conditions. Of course, a dedicated sensor makes it simpler...

 

[CRS 123]

Release date?
CRS

 

[kamkar]

I am wondering if the camera will also be able to go into B&W mode like cctv cameras do with dwindling light.
Not sure but maybe just having to work with shades in between white and black ( a lot of degrees of grey ) might make low light recordings better.

And i agree, better not jump the gun with final release.

 

[jokiin]

I am wondering if the camera will also be able to go into B&W mode like cctv cameras do with dwindling light.
Not sure but maybe just having to work with shades in between white and black ( a lot of degrees of grey ) might make low light recordings better.
.

that's what Shadow do with their model that has the light sensor, not so sure for their implementation that it's that beneficial

 

[OCD Tronic]

Looking forward to seeing how it works.

 

[TonyM]

I wonder if the same functionality could be achieved with just software. You already have a light sensor - it is the lens. By analyzing image and ISO it should be easy to determine the light conditions. Of course, a dedicated sensor makes it simpler...

Digital SLRs have separate image and metering sensors. The metering sensor can have larger extra-sensitive pixels.

 

[Hombré]

@JooVuu............ Gidday Dan, could you take some time to address some of the issues on your forum, once a week would be better than none.

Are you still working on firmware for the current X

 

[c4rc4m]

I am wondering if the camera will also be able to go into B&W mode like cctv cameras do with dwindling light.
Not sure but maybe just having to work with shades in between white and black ( a lot of degrees of grey ) might make low light recordings better.

And i agree, better not jump the gun with final release.

TBH a bit of an old fashioned solution given the increased sensitivity of modern sensors. Also, B&W mode it often in CCTV because of the use of IR illuminators as IR only effectively sees in B&W (it does actually see in colour, but the spectrum is completely different rendering the picture nice for artistic effect but useless for most other purposes). eg:

As you can see, IR filtered to B&W produces a superb image whilst IR in colour leaves a lot to be desired.

Some carcams have tried IR illumination without much success. I think the issue is one of illumination range and also back reflection from the windscreen.

 

[kamkar]

The IMX 185 based IP camera i have also want to jump into B&W mode and start IR lights, that's default for it, so i had to go into settings to force it to stay in color mode at night.
And also it are just a camera core, so no housing for it or IR light, but if they was there and connected the camera would default try and use them.
And they don't come much more light sensitive than the IMX 185 that is 1 up from the IMX 291.
If only i had a longer network cable i could move that camera to the kitchen window and see how it worked with the IR light off my PTZ camera on the balcony door.
But i am pretty sure it would work well letting it disengage its IR cut filter and change into B&W mode.

So this ( B&W dashcam ) would take a active IR filter and a camera geared to enter B&W in low light.

Im still not sure it would be any benefit for a camera like dashcam, but if it did have a better result that's what i would want, not that i in no way thing a camera in such a mode would capture plates at night then, cuz even in B&W mode i am quite sure the cameras also use pretty slow exposure timings.
No doubt cars passing by down on the street at night still have a lot of motion blue on the IMX 185 camera.

And say such a camera could keep the slowest exposure to 1:120 second, that's a lot faster exposure than 1:30, but i an not sure if it would mean anything for the footage.

I guess i could test this with my Dslr on moving objects one day. keep Aperture and ISO the same and just change exposure timing ( assuming dashcam are at highest ISO setting at this time anyway )
Might not translate 1:1 comparing my Nikon Dslr to a dashcam sensor, but if it really gave better photos with the Nikon, then the same faster exposure on a dashcam sensor should also mean better footage for it.

But that little gap i do think its marginal, but it is after all a 4 X faster exposure.

 

[c4rc4m]

Well shutter speed is possibly part of the crux. So far as I'm aware, carcams don't adjust shutter speed, rather have a fixed speed based on their frame rate, which in my opinion, is possibly part of the failing - they're limited by the FPS setting even if the light would support a faster shutter speed. Upping the FPS setting eg to 120 fps to address this, then causes problems with the amount of data to be both written and stored as doubling the number of pictures captured means double the data to be processed and twice as many frames to be stored on the SD card. The flip side, is the limitation on shutter speed, does prevent jerky video from having too high a shutter speed in the day and dark video from having too high a shutter speed in low light.

eg Just consider an SLR user. No SLR user in their right mind would set a shutter speed below 1/250th of a second for motor sports and I'd suggest that many would us between 1/500th and 1/1,000. Yet I believe the suggestion is that even on 60fps, the shutter speed on a dashcam is probably around 1/60th (I'd guess a bit less to allow for time between captures). However, translate that into the photographic world, and 1/60th is often problematic for hand held portrait shots not sports!

I believe another part of the issue is also fixed aperture. A wide aperture that lets in lots of light for night use, produces a shallow depth of field which then limits readable plate range in the day as the sharpness falls away from the focus point. It has to be said though that aperture conflicts with shutter speed in so far as the smaller the aperture, the less light entering the camera and thus the slower the available shutter speed.

As I mentioned above, a few companies have stuck IR illuminating LED's on the front of their dashcams. However, I've yet to see a report that suggests any advantage to this. The issues are I think are probably that the IR lacks sufficient range. On this point do we really want to be blasted with high power IR from oncoming vehicles at night if that is the solution to lack of range? Also, if the iR illuminator is mounted internally, then I can see issues with back reflection off the windscreen. I think in the CCTV world, IR illumination has proven effective - an IR illuminator to an IR sensitive camera is like a floodlight is to a daylight sensitive camera, probably more so which may be why you see it employed rather than visible light.

Just my opinions.

 

[Nigel]

...Im still not sure it would be any benefit for a camera like dashcam,...

Big problem is that cars are not normally painted in IR colours, even the white ones, so being able to see IR doesn't help see cars, also roads come out dark.

The things it does help with are the vegetation, hedges, trees, grass which are bright in IR and the reflective number plates which it makes always over exposed.

 

[dirkzelf]

I am wondering if the camera will also be able to go into B&W mode like cctv cameras do with dwindling light.
Not sure but maybe just having to work with shades in between white and black ( a lot of degrees of grey ) might make low light recordings better.

you must be a mind reader...

 

[dirkzelf]

@JooVuu............ Gidday Dan, could you take some time to address some of the issues on your forum, once a week would be better than none.

Are you still working on firmware for the current X

yeah..... it's been too long since .....

 

[dirkzelf]

just in case you guys missed it:

Sometime ago I bought me a CCTV 12mm lens with F1.8 aperture and focal length of 3.6mm without IR filter, and a separate IR filter and d.i.y.'d it to the lens cap, so I can take it of easy, just to see the difference in night recording with and without the IR filter, judge for yourself. Any comments very welcome! A real traffic at night test is yet to come, stay tuned.

 

[dirkzelf]

ok here's 27 minute night ride with mobius wide lens and NO IR filter

The lens is not an original Mobius lens. WITH filter it performs about the same as the original C2 lens in daylight and by night though. This lens is F2.0 and I bought it on Aliexpress, can't find the page anymore, but here's the description:

"GWFEYE Metal M12 3.0MP Megapixel 2.1MM 1/2.5 CCTV Lens For HD IP Camera CCTV Cameras F2.0 Fixed Iris". Set me back about 6 bucs.

It is close to this one (but 3MP istead of 5mp):

https://www.aliexpress.com/item/VIV...lgo_pvid=e75afe61-1af1-47ad-93cb-4bf3e25edc11

and here's parts of it in B/W (by Moviemaker)....

 

[Kip]

Interesting experiment! I notice you have another Mobius sitting there, any chance of some above and below side-by-side footage? I like that you included completely unlit narrow roads too, that's a real test of how much and how far you can see.

 

[dirkzelf]

Thanks, I was just curious.... Hahaha

I don't think this would change anything overnight, but it is indeed interesting to see how much light the ir filter takes away at night.

The other camera is an A-lens version, that would lead to wrong conclusions comparing these 2.... Sorry bud.

 

[dirkzelf]

Have you seen the small part where I took the headlights down (7:35 into the clip)? The only lights were the parking lights.

If it floats your boat, I'd be happy to put up some A lens part from the ride. However, it would be a false compare as the wide C2 lens much brighter than the A version.

I do have to say it's very tempting to take out the IR filter from my C2 lens, just for the heck of it, what 'd you guys think?