Lens APERTURE F1.6 vs F2.8 ? Mobius vs LS300W vs Panorama2 Panorama II

niko

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I will spread my thread posts into 4 messages due to a lot of pictures. ( max. 10 pictures can be added in one post )

This thread is about understanding of Lens Aperture on Dash Cameras.

Full understanding of lens aperture you can find from Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aperture

Generally the lens aperture number on dash cameras shows how good will be recording at night.

F3.0, F3.5 - is son-so ( nothing special )
F2.5, F2.6 - is OK
F2.0, F2.2 - getting better
F1.8 - good nigh vision recording
F1.6 - very good night vision recording
F1.4 - excellent ! ( there are no mass-production dash cams yet with this aperture )

Another words: The larger the aperture - the smaller is "F"- number, - the better night vision / recording ... OR IS IT ??!

Actually there are much more to this in dash cameras, than just looking to the aperture "F"-number.
For good night vision recording is not enough to have lens with large aperture, - there are many other factors that affect night recording:

- lens quality
- CMOS type / brand
- CMOS size
- CPU quality
- "other" hardware
- FIRMWARE

Only a perfect combination of all dash camera components will decide on how good it will perform at night or day.

For example:
You can have two dash cameras with exactly the same specifications "on the paper", but for some reason one dash camera can perform much better at night than the other. Why ?
Because that other dash camera has much higher quality components and better firmware.

In this thread I will share my side by side tests with 4 dash cameras:

- Mobius, approx 65-70usd
- LS300W, approx 140-150usd, - same dash GT300W dash cam approx 103-108 usd
- GT450W, approx 103-108 usd
- Panorama2 ( Powerucc ), approx 180-185 usd.

NB!
Please do not jump into making harsh judgement between those dash cameras on what is good and what is bad. This thread is about understanding of aperture.
All those dash cameras perform very well in their own price range.
It is unfair to make full judgement on product which are in different price-range.

Aperture on tested dash cameras:

Mobius, LS300W, GT450W, - they all have very large lens aperture of F1.6, - this is considered to be one of the best figures in present days dash cameras, so majority of buyers "chasing" for dash cameras with larger "F"-number in order to get best night vision video recording. In most cases dash camera with larger aperture, truly perform better than other dash cameras with lower aperture, but as mentioned above, - there are much more to this.

Panorama2 has lens aperture ( you do not believe this ), - its F2.8 ! So, by looking into common rules of aperture, F2.8 is not that great. I must say "on the paper" its below average, so most buyers start thinking that night video recording on this device will be below average. Wrong ! ( read below and watch videos / pictures )

I bought Panorama2 dash camera about half year ago without knowing that it had such a "bad" aperture number. If I would new back then about its aperture, - I would not bought it for sure, because back then I still thought ( like many of you think now ): the larger dash camera lens aperture, - the better night video recording.

Despite such a huge difference in aperture nubmers, Panorama2 is more sensitive at night. It's all due to having much better CMOS sensor ( Sony Exmor ), much higher quality lenses and much better firmware which is tailored to the best possible result.

NB!, - again I want to repeat myself: - don't get me wrong, I am not trying to muck down other dash cameras tested, - this would be wrong from me. Those other dash cameras are also very good in their own price range and I truly can recommend them as well.
It's all about price !
For people with limited budget I can recommend LS300W, or it's neutral brand GT300W ( approx 103-108 usd ). They are performing very well and have been proven to be reliable dash cameras.

For those who need to get more out of night video recording, - then of course need to pay much more. Many well known dash cameras which have Sony Exmor CMOS might perform at night as good as Panorama2 ( Lukas LK-7900 etc. ) and others that are using SOny Exmor CMOS, - I can not say, - never tested them all. I can judge only by those dash cameras I had in hand.

From my tests below you can see that Panorama2 delivers more background details at night, but background in most places is bluish-violet colour, not that cinema-looking as other dash cameras, however you can see on Panorama2: houses, trees, electric poles, fences, bushes, people road sign posts, and all other objects, etc., that are not shown on other dash cams and which might be a vital information in case you need to solve some "situation" in court or police station to prove something.
So it's up to individual dash camera buyer to chose to have dash camera that shows more details at night, but slightly "wrong" background colours ( instead of nice back it shows bluish-violet colour), or have correct background colours, but with less or no details.

Also you may see that Panorama2 videos are slightly noisier than other, due to having average 12Mbps bit-rate, others have 15Mbps, however slightly lower video bit-rate does not affect much on overall crutial info reading on Panorama2, - it's just visually comparing two videos side by side on the big screen, you can see slight noise on Panorama2 videos.
So there are pros and cons if choosing between different dash cameras and each person has to decide what is best for him / her.

YouTube Videos below ( select 1080p from bottom right corner of the video settings )

NB!, - my car windscreen is not in perfect conditions, has some tiny stone chips, so in some video places you can some see glare from windscreen, - it is due to imperfections of car windscreen ( need to change it soon ).

Mobius vs LS300W vs Panorama2. Night.


LS300W vs GT450W vs Panorama 2. Night.


As we all know, YouTube is not the best place to judge videos quality due to data compression, I have uploaded same videos individual RAW files here:

Panorama2 Night ( vs LS300W vs Mobius ) (3).MP4 (255.3 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!rRJ12A5L!Ycfbgg93rSJ5mPMENHPGRG5uNglykRiScIClnG_NMZI

Panorama2 Night ( vs LS300W vs Mobius ) (2).MP4 (255.1 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!vZJRhDaL!HU-2Pis_inkNvVIavFHy8WUDpx8T6BpOdzncSsnG3CY

Panorama2 Night ( vs LS300W vs Mobius ) (1).MP4 (255.2 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!yExXCBjK!Jd8X3C5pNvb0wcBAYRzZcTt6FzsaVvHqmH9i_hxx6yY

Panorama2 Day ( vs LS300W vs Mobius ) (3).MP4 (255.2 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!zFIz3JhI!BldTQHIy1YO9-bfERBzEoSYei9AdA228hbiE5BjpDSs

Panorama2 Day ( vs LS300W vs Mobius ) (2).MP4 (255.1 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!TURFxIpJ!WqljcFaMrKRs-w09xntsgEH1osAGMbOEcx8UNa_mGiM

Panorama2 Day ( vs LS300W vs Mobius ) (1).MP4 (255.2 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!jAQhwLjK!BMjHbDwxvqQOQTR_dBNgn1hw_Wc1QOpZMATW0BduKtw

Mobius Night ( vs LS300W vs Panorama 2 ) (3).MOV (396.1 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!ncIA3ByL!aZeUkBfcuq0fh_kv-M4dQQMfjaM-WFrMXZjuGOccJ0s

Mobius Night ( vs LS300W vs Panorama 2 ) (2).MOV (396.3 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!ecI3gRDS!XkKmDFsf0vHR6-xgJSHwAWIoQ_lZ5Du_vKK-p3jsBOo

Mobius Night ( vs LS300W vs Panorama 2 ) (1).MOV (396.1 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!jNJVXQAD!frJz_z0xMtAJiKJlJVZIPlAMQWwTLVQ7S5Hr_wm1nSw

Mobius Day ( vs LS300W vs Panorama2 ) (3).MOV (396.3 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!6dYHxZ5a!XeUR8nB5WEceDhE3ZyYhzh_631kpK8hOdCBPMCzmJEs

Mobius Day ( vs LS300W vs Panorama2 ) (2).MOV (396.1 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!fRRWzaxI!Tz5IV3uZcXC3TWAIy-Rd8EC8PkNq58BUi1kPe_xVTRk

Mobius Day ( vs LS300W vs Panorama2 ) (1).MOV (395.8 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!CZxR2ZzQ!fm_zEEimQFNdaczopY7BbRK1UEkDQxmPUAcUJPRsLEM

LS300W Night ( vs Mobius vs Panorama 2 ) (3).MOV (355.2 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!6MJSVSqS!b44t_z4myYOde13bGnIrTlUj6HM21w0pyPXSn2sLV98

LS300W Night ( vs Mobius vs Panorama 2 ) (2).MOV (355.0 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!vNxWBDDS!aU-3oyZWSsJ416rAbgm4CEWam2IiVI1ZOEfhLBpn5gw

LS300W Night ( vs Mobius vs Panorama 2 ) (1).MOV (355.0 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!rQQzFQ5T!evtkuRFPBVPh1sQEpwr2cmx-58ZVaw3t9_Np_NPfipA

LS300W Day ( vs Pan2 & Mobius) (3).MOV (355.0 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!rJh1zLzL!P_md_BmxMb6-Fr4uesNZfWacdZVqwy-6k6aiZm-PnHs

LS300W Day ( vs Pan2 & Mobius) (2).MOV (355.1 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!HEoUUKLA!ehS5IGpTiil_ai7Lwg2UiFqdycQhGHGCTiLFRNilkMU

LS300W Day ( vs Pan2 & Mobius) (1).MOV (355.0 MB)
https://mega.co.nz/#!eA5j3KiC!GH9NtzBtw7ToVCjVS9SN_wryrLMqD7lkqtu-z1sQlN8
 
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It's better to watch pictures on home PC / Laptop ( big screen ) in darker room, so can see better background areas / details of dash cameras videos. I tried to watch them on my smartphone and they were smaller and darker with less background displayed. So the best way for videos / pictures viewing is to use your PC / Laptop in darker room.

Mobius vs DPD LS300W vs Panorama2 ( Powerucc )

Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (1).jpg


Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (2).jpg


Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (3).jpg


Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (4).jpg
Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (5).jpg


Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (6).jpg
Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (7).jpg


Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (8).jpg
Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (9).jpg


Mobius LS300W Panorama2 (10).jpg
 
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In some places ( below photos ) Panorama2 did not had that bluish-violet background colour, it was same plain black colour as other dash cameras. I assume Panorama2 firmware changes background colours in videos depending on situation and sensitivity where needed to adjust to show background details or not depending on background details.

c1.jpg

c2.jpg

c3.jpg

c4.jpg

c6.jpg

c7.jpg
 
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Great stuff niko, much respect for the time & effort it must have taken to put this together.

Is a 'Mobius vs LS300W vs Panorama2. Day' video available? I downloaded the 3 'Mobius Day' videos but they weren't quite what I anticipated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD
 
Great stuff niko, much respect for the time & effort it must have taken to put this together.

Is a 'Mobius vs LS300W vs Panorama2. Day' video available? I downloaded the 3 'Mobius Day' videos but they weren't quite what I anticipated.


Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk HD

You are welcome.
Yes, I do have day time of those 3 dash cams face to face comparison videos, but its a cloudy day. I hope to put together on weekend and share.
 
If you want a clear picture of what is in front on you then the 300w is the clear winner, if you want to see blurred nature strip then Panorama2 is the winner. For me the I will take 300w any day.
 
If you want a clear picture of what is in front on you then the 300w is the clear winner, if you want to see blurred nature strip then Panorama2 is the winner. For me the I will take 300w any day.

Wrong. They both have sharp image. Check Panorama2 and Dod Ls300w threads, i have posted there direct links to download RAW video files. You see those both dash cams have clear and sharp image.

Dont know what makes you say about "blurred nature strip"? Have you own both, have you tested yourself both of them side by side?
 
Wrong. They both have sharp image. Check Panorama2 and Dod Ls300w threads, i have posted there direct links to download RAW video files. You see those both dash cams have clear and sharp image.

Dont know what makes you say about "blurred nature strip"? Have you own both, have you tested yourself both of them side by side?

Yes, as I said I will take the 300w before the Panorama2
 
If you want a clear picture of what is in front on you then the 300w is the clear winner, if you want to see blurred nature strip then Panorama2 is the winner. For me the I will take 300w any day.

If you want a clear picture of what is in front of you then any of the three cameras will suffice, if you want to see more of the environment then the Panorama2 will produce this along with better lighting/visibility.

Thanks for the time and effort Niko, thats taken some time to produce!
 
If you want a clear picture of what is in front on you then the 300w is the clear winner, if you want to see blurred nature strip then Panorama2 is the winner. For me the I will take 300w any day.

Select 1080p from youtube video clip bottom right corner.




Collection of Panorama2 RAW video files:
http://webfile.ru/folder?id=25211

Collection of DOD LS300W RAE video files:
http://webfile.ru/folder?id=25118

You can see they both have nice clear and sharp video day or night, so your "blurred nature" suggestions is wrong.
 
Yes, as I said I will take the 300w before the Panorama2

Here I agree with you, ls300w is a good choice. Best would be gt300w because of its much cheaper price.
Also can be recommended gt550w and gt680w, - they are all the winners in their own price range.
 
If you want a clear picture of what is in front of you then any of the three cameras will suffice, if you want to see more of the environment then the Panorama2 will produce this along with better lighting/visibility.

Thanks for the time and effort Niko, thats taken some time to produce!

You are welcome.
Yes, those kind of reports taking huge time. Made those tests month ago but only now finally finished whole review.
Most important if this info will help others to understand tricks which can be hidden behind aperture value of dash cameras. Not always good camera have "on the paper" a good aperture listed, but in real life performance could be much better than those other dash cams which have better aperture figures. So I encourage buyers not to judge dash cams only by looking "on the paper" specs.
 
Not always good camera have "on the paper" a good aperture listed, but in real life performance could be much better than those other dash cams which have better aperture figures. So I encourage buyers not to judge dash cams only by looking "on the paper" specs.

+1.

Having large f-number is one factor of producing bright clear image, but having a good image processor is equally important. For example if you have an aperture of f/1 lens but with crappy image processor, it still going to produce crappy pictures.
 
+1.

Having large f-number is one factor of producing bright clear image, but having a good image processor is equally important. For example if you have an aperture of f/1 lens but with crappy image processor, it still going to produce crappy pictures.

Agree 100%.
Here I can draw parallel with Matego mg300w which is almost same model as Panorama2. Matego is Chinese developer, using same hardware, same Coach 12p CPU, same based firmware, same 6+1 glass lens, but with huge difference in sensor. Matego mg300w uses OV2710, Korean Panorama2 has Sony Exmor CMOS. Video difference result ( especially at night ) is huge between those two dash cams. Also Powerucc firmware developers custom tailored they firmware to a possible maximum perfect result for cpu and cmos to produce high quality image.
Of course all this comes at a much higher price compared to 100usd vs 180usd. ( gt300w vs Panorama2 ).

Still I think Ls300w, gt300w, and other dash cams from same "family" are delivering very good video quality results and its very hard to find other competitors within same price range.
 
Niko, I just had a bit of time viewing through those pictures you posted above, I can see you have red arrows pointed in some of Panorama2 pictures indicating the background buildings and cloud you can see which you cannot see in LS300W, GT450W and Mobius. I am wondering if it is becaue Panorama2 somehow crank up the exposure value thus its images appear overall brighter? I am wondering if there is exposure setting in LS300W/GT450W/Mobius that you can change i.e. +1 or +2, and see if their images will turn out as bright as Panorama2?
 
Niko, I just had a bit of time viewing through those pictures you posted above, I can see you have red arrows pointed in some of Panorama2 pictures indicating the background buildings and cloud you can see which you cannot see in LS300W, GT450W and Mobius. I am wondering if it is becaue Panorama2 somehow crank up the exposure value thus its images appear overall brighter? I am wondering if there is exposure setting in LS300W/GT450W/Mobius that you can change i.e. +1 or +2, and see if their images will turn out as bright as Panorama2?

EV value on all of them was 0.
 
EV value on all of them was 0.

Yes I am guessing that.

What I am wondering is if you change the EV on LS300W and GT450W to +2, and EV on Mobius to +3 (if it allows you since its image is the darkest), will you get similarly bright pictures like Panorama2 on EV 0?
 
What I am wondering is if you change the EV on LS300W and GT450W to +2, and EV on Mobius to +3 (if it allows you since its image is the darkest), will you get similarly bright pictures like Panorama2 on EV 0?

there's quite a good chance you could play with the EV and brightness levels to get them to produce similar night results, what you need to keep in mind though is that you would then end up with a different result during the day, yes you could improve the night results but then if using those settings during the day the picture would be over exposed and would lose detail so again the Panorama would have an advantage, I think the guts of it is that the Panorama has a hardware advantage and they've tailored the firmware accordingly to get the best all round results
 
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