Let's Start A Revolution... Today!

It will never happen - you can't have a fixed cost for something that could go on for an indeterminate period of time.

Yeah and all this obsession with the cloud tickles me. Why would anyone want to upload their most personal docs, including in this case dashcam footage, to someone else's server where it's far more vulnerable, and where that aside the server owner themself can view any footage / data?

No-one (in their right mind) is going to save anything other than the odd clip, and even then, most will delete the clip after it's served it's purpose. Only a clip of an involved accident is likely to sit on someone's pc indefinitely.

I know where I'd rather have my data. No-one is looking for a home pc as it's just an insignificant pc on a internet of billions of pc's and probably contains nothing of any real interest anyway. Behind a firewall with AV to protect from Trojans, it's relatively safe, although the biggest safety factor is it's anonymity / invisibility, from being small and insignificant. A large cloud server containing a lot of data is far more likely to spark someone's interest for a hacking or data mining attempt.
 
Why would anyone want to upload their most personal docs, including in this case dashcam footage, to someone else's server where it's far more vulnerable, and where that aside the server owner themself can view any footage / data?

I tend to agree but you need to keep in mind that the average person has little to no real knowledge of computer security and no personal server. When I first got online my tutor was one of the top IT guys in my state. He told me to use a free email from Yahoo or Hotmail (and later Gmail) like he does because they had better malware scanning and protection than I could buy updated more frequently. and that their computers (servers) were the best in the world so that it was far less likely that I'd lose anything there compared to what might happen to my machines. In short it's the best way possible for almost everybody without an unlimited budget ;)

Privacy is impossible to guarantee with anything which goes online so you put nothing sacred where there's any possible connectivity (stand-alone)- only then is your info truly safe. And unless you've got something interesting placed where it's possibly accessible then nobody will give it more than a cursory glance if they waste even that much time on it. The bad guys and snoops are out to catch big fish, not us tiny commercially worthless by-catch. If they find everything I've got they will have done better picking up beer cans by the roadside with the time they spent :ROFLMAO:

I wouldn't put anything vital on the cloud or my PC without back-up, and few things 'free' online remain that way forever. It's really not an advantage for most dashcam users, just another gimmick designed to sell cams :whistle:

Phil
 
I tend to agree but you need to keep in mind that the average person has little to no real knowledge of computer security and no personal server. When I first got online my tutor was one of the top IT guys in my state. He told me to use a free email from Yahoo or Hotmail (and later Gmail) like he does because they had better malware scanning and protection than I could buy updated more frequently. and that their computers (servers) were the best in the world so that it was far less likely that I'd lose anything there compared to what might happen to my machines. In short it's the best way possible for almost everybody without an unlimited budget ;)

Privacy is impossible to guarantee with anything which goes online so you put nothing sacred where there's any possible connectivity (stand-alone)- only then is your info truly safe. And unless you've got something interesting placed where it's possibly accessible then nobody will give it more than a cursory glance if they waste even that much time on it. The bad guys and snoops are out to catch big fish, not us tiny commercially worthless by-catch. If they find everything I've got they will have done better picking up beer cans by the roadside with the time they spent :ROFLMAO:

I wouldn't put anything vital on the cloud or my PC without back-up, and few things 'free' online remain that way forever. It's really not an advantage for most dashcam users, just another gimmick designed to sell cams :whistle:

Phil
Agree
 
It will never happen - you can't have a fixed cost for something that could go on for an indeterminate period of time.

There are web services too numerous to name that offer lifetime access for a one time fee/payment - especially small entities offering web services.
 
Yeah and all this obsession with the cloud tickles me. Why would anyone want to upload their most personal docs, including in this case dashcam footage, to someone else's server where it's far more vulnerable, and where that aside the server owner themself can view any footage / data?

No-one (in their right mind) is going to save anything other than the odd clip, and even then, most will delete the clip after it's served it's purpose. Only a clip of an involved accident is likely to sit on someone's pc indefinitely.

I know where I'd rather have my data. No-one is looking for a home pc as it's just an insignificant pc on a internet of billions of pc's and probably contains nothing of any real interest anyway. Behind a firewall with AV to protect from Trojans, it's relatively safe, although the biggest safety factor is it's anonymity / invisibility, from being small and insignificant. A large cloud server containing a lot of data is far more likely to spark someone's interest for a hacking or data mining attempt.


If an important video that helps to establish liability and identity can be saved to the cloud before the camera itself can be disconnected/destroyed - then having that third-party server becomes important.

Home PCs sitting behind "firewalls" are the training grounds for would-be Hackers. They go after them all the time port sniffing and port scanning. If your home PC is set up as a video server then that means you have opened a port on that box that is exposed to the outside world. There are things you can do to mask that port, but a port nonetheless will still be open. You can put the box inside a DMZ, but that's less safe if not done correctly and most don't set-up DMZs correctly to begin with - then wonder how or why they got hacked.

Your Home spun box is not "invisible" if has an IP address and communicates with any other node on the net. Even with a commercial grade hardware firewall behind your ISPs router there are still vulnerabilities that can be heavily exploited and you will find most of the inbound attacks coming from IP addresses in China, Korea, Russia and Eastern Europe. The Ukrainians are particularly good at it - I don't know why they are that good but I've sat and watched them come up with some interesting probes just for kicks.

There is also some interesting probing activity that routinely comes off the Eastern Seaboard area of the United States. And, you might want to someday check your IP traffic leaving (outbound) the United States with any destination across the Mid Atlantic. You will find that it might (possibly) route through a place having the same general location as several British MI6 offices. Yep. And, the same is true for inbound IP traffic coming to the East Coast of the United States from almost anywhere in Africa and East of Africa. Lots of IP traffic from that region tends to route through the exact same locations where known British MI6 offices are established. Do the research on your own.

The Anonymous Web is a myth. It is like the Loch Ness Monster in many respects. At other times, it is just like the Easter Bunny - sometimes even better, like Santa Claus.
 
If an important video that helps to establish liability and identity can be saved to the cloud before the camera itself can be disconnected/destroyed - then having that third-party server becomes important.

uploading that fast (in time/reliably/affordably) would be a huge challenge to say the least
 
There are web services too numerous to name that offer lifetime access for a one time fee/payment - especially small entities offering web services.
Yes, and they generally work well for the lifetime of the web service, once it stops working that lifetime is over.
 
If an important video that helps to establish liability and identity can be saved to the cloud before the camera itself can be disconnected/destroyed - then having that third-party server becomes important.

It's highly unlikely your dashcam is going to get destroyed before you have time to get home. This isn't Independence Day! (the film).

Home PCs sitting behind "firewalls" are the training grounds for would-be Hackers. They go after them all the time port sniffing and port scanning.

Which is why any decently configured router / pc doesn't respond to pings and why most home routers also block sniffing attempts. They might not be industrial strength, but they don't need to be.

Very few home PC's out of billions out there ever get hacked. Those that do, are usually the victims of trojans with that being IUE (Idiot User Error) for downloading a dodgy file from a dodgy website. There's probably more chance of you winning the lottery jackpot than getting hacked as a home user without downloading a Trojan 1st. Then, if you are a lottery winner, are they really going to steal you incar videos? Far more likely they'll steal Card details, Passwords and important docs, not incar driving clips.

As for a video server, why do you need a video server? You're making this far too complicated. I simply have a pc with a folder labelled "InCarVideo" and any video I want, is simply cut and pasted into it. Quite simply, no servers involved.

If I want to share said video, I upload to Youtube, Facebook or Vimeo, after editing out anything I don't want to be seen. No drama, no servers, no complication, no cost and I have complete control over what is seen and what isn't.

I agree with your calls to make dashcams better, but adding Cloud communication is just an un-needed feature that will cost an arm and a leg to implement automatically, and therefore actually detract in the quality of the final camera as money spent on implementing cloud features is money that could be spent elsewhere. If you just propose having a separate cloud, then really no advantage over putting the file on your pc and uploading to the cloud compared to Youtube.
 
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There are web services too numerous to name that offer lifetime access for a one time fee/payment - especially small entities offering web services.
Key is 'lifetime'. Once the company goes under for lack of money their lifetime is over. :(

Idealism is wonderful but it has to be tempered with a healthy dose of reality and fiscal responsibility.
 
uploading that fast (in time/reliably/affordably) would be a huge challenge to say the least


Which is precisely my point about Blackvue and its lackluster Cloud speeds. There are seven (7) components to an effective mobile cloud cam solution:

1) The camera's ability to remain connected to the mobile hotspot
2) The camera's ability to upstream its recorded video
3) The hotspot's ability to remain connected to its network and deliver 'true' 4G LTE speeds (bit rate and bandwidth dependent)
4) The receiving mobile device's ability to remain connected to its network at 'true' 4G LTE speeds or better (same dependencies)
5) The ability of the application installed on the receiving mobile device to play hi-res streaming video content
6) The reliability of a continuous power source for all hardware involved
7) The Build Quality, Maintenance, Optimization and Network Speed (throughput & bandwidth) of the Cloud Server itself

Frankly, I think the majority of the problem with Blackvue is in their Cloud Server host selection (not that they don't have other problems). For example, they are not using a dedicated server from someone like RackSpace, as just one example. They are using AWS which probably guarantees they are not only on a shared box using a Type-I Hypervisor, but they are also most probably sharing network bandwidth with their neighbors (other AWS customers). And, there is no doubt that Amazon is attempting to maximize their leased space as much as possible - as all hosting companies do, can't blame them.

If Blackvue were using their own dedicated server then they'd have to manage it, which apparently they don't want to do. So, they hand it off to AWS. Unfortunately, they cannot control AWS pricing or resource allocation scheme, so Blackvue gets what everyone else gets - slow performance under load - unless they go Dedicated with a big enough pipe and storage parameters to accommodate what Blackvue is trying to sell to the public, a real-world Cloud Cam that's actually usable most of the time and not a slow pain and frustration to the majority of its customers.

I don't have anything against T-1 Hypervisors and I use one in my own business. However, I have no customers and I have no commitments in service delivery. Iuse the T1H for private business transactions that I am responsible for securing and it works well for me. For a company that does have customers and an SLA (whether written or implied), it really should at the very least be on a fully Dedicated Server with likewise Dedicated IP addresses for both inbound and outbound traffic.

Blackvue could build this out in-house and deliver much faster service. However, given that they are in Korea, and sell their cams all over the world, they would by necessity also have to build out a Distributed Datacenter complete with logistical planning to minimize IP traffic connection routes while maximizing network speeds experienced by customers.

There is an answer for this, but I doubt Blackvue is truly interested in doing it the right way.
 
Privacy is impossible to guarantee with anything which goes online

Indeed also why i keep as much as i can offline.

A 19 YO kid was just busted here trying to buy a H&K ( MP5 i think ) and 550 pices of ammo over the dark web, only problem was the seller was some undisclosed foreign intelligence agency.

Sadly baiting are not allowed here, such a nice and simple way to get rid of people with unwanted tendencies.
 
It's highly unlikely your dashcam is going to get destroyed before you have time to get home. This isn't Independence Day! (the film).

If the prep breaks in, you receive notification and then you upload to the cloud before the perp destroys all evidence - including your cam. You've got the perp on video, hopefully a description (unless they were wearing a mask - certainly possible) and you now have law enforcement at least something to go on. In the world of law enforcement, they often go after the lowest hanging fruit because its quite frankly easier to resolve. The more you give them the easier it gets for them to solve the case.

But, beyond any of that - I could merely be browsing my Cloud Cam one day to find someone engaging in Grand Theft of my vehicle and/or Vandalism. I can also make a Citizens Arrest and I can do so at gun point if necessary until the Police arrive and the perp is remanded. Out where I live, grand theft instantly qualifies for citizens arrest and vandalism qualifies if the damages are estimated to be in excess of $2,500 (at last check). Any violent criminal act instantly qualifies as well.


Which is why any decently configured router / pc doesn't respond to pings and why most home routers also block sniffing attempts. They might not be industrial strength, but they don't need to be.

Depends entirely on what you are doing with the box - ping response might be entirely necessary and sniffing is only one way to detect port vulnerabilities. My post was not to be a comprehensive treatise on network security and access control. I used to work in the DC of the largest RDBMS developer at its world wide headquarters many moons ago doing a number of things over the years while I was there, including running the Ops Center which used to sit below the main floor before they shipped everything out to the suburbs. I only mention it because I have some background in it.


Very few home PC's out of billions out there ever get hacked.

My box sees attempted intruder activity every single day of the week. A lot coming from Korea lately - what's up with that, I will never know. Hmmmmm. Blackvue is in Korea. Mere coincidence? I don't know.


Those that do, are usually the victims of trojans with that being ISE (Idiot User Error) for downloading a dodgy file from a dodgy website. There's probably more chance of you winning the lottery jackpot than getting hacked as a home user without downloading a Trojan 1st. Then, if you are a lottery winner, are they really going to steal you incar videos? Far more likely they'll steal Card details, Passwords and important docs, not incar driving clips.

Again, this depends entirely on what you are running on your box and what it is susceptible to once your firewall has been penetrated - again, not a massively difficult thing to do if you know how to toss exploits around. I grew up (literally) working in a corporate DC. Before I learned anything about relational databases, 3-dimensional cubes, data analytics, data integration, data mining, ETL, data storage and the applications that used all that, I was schooled in corporate on real-world network engineering, first.

This was long before I learned OOP and before Linux was being used ubiquitously with acceptance in most corporate environments and when the big three (3) Unix flavors were still dominant in many corporate DCs (HP-UX, IBM-AIX and Sun Solaris). I could 'grep' out of 'etc/hosts' before I could 'dim a variable', which I think is the way that most younger people should get involved in computer tech these days. I think beginning with the Network itself (the backbone of all computing world wide), should be the basis of all Computer Science education.


As for a video server, why do you need a video server?

For some of the reasons I outline above and for some that I did not. Primarily and as a strict matter of systems design protocol (emphasis on the word: Protocol) it would be a simple matter of dissimilar and dislocated storage redundancy should there happen to be a failure in the primary storage unit or the primary capture unit. I'm more comfortable flying multiple engines as opposed to just one. More to manage, maintain, repair and expense? Sure. That's the nature of redundancy, unfortunately. But, I think the benefits outweigh the headaches in most cases.


You're making this far too complicated.

That's what systems engineers do - they make things more complicate to those who want things more easy. Easy buttons only exist at the surface. Underneath is often times a bit more complexity than what might seem necessary at first glance. Being a engineering architect, I know this to be true most of the time. The easier you want it, the more "push button automated" you desire it, the more it will take some engineering to push the limits of his/her creativity to solve underlying problems that the surface will not show.


I simply have a pc with a folder labelled "InCarVideo" and any video I want, is simply cut and pasted into it. Quite simply, no servers involved.

Seems practical on the surface. I don't have a problem with that approach. However, right now, I might want to know precisely where my vehicle is located and who might be standing around it. Cut and paste won't show me that in real-time. That solution requires implementing some tech that works.

I am not going to attempt to redirect my Blackvue video to my own personal Cloud server. I promise. I just want Blackvue to make that work more consistently and clean up the video quality so that it is more representative of the real Sony EXMOR-R family if image processors. That's all I'm asking for. I paid the money for that - I should not now have to go out and re-build (re-engineer) what Blackvue created. However, I will support Tinkware or Apple, if they decide to do it right.


I agree with your calls to make dashcams better, but adding Cloud communication is just an un-needed feature that will cost an arm and a leg to implement automatically, and therefore actually detract in the quality of the final camera as money spent on implementing cloud features is money that could be spent elsewhere. If you just propose having a separate cloud, then really no advantage over putting the file on your pc and uploading to the cloud compared to Youtube.

For me, I got into this thing because the Cloud was being promoted as ready for prime time. I've got other 'items' that I'd like to cover with remote video surveillance as well, not just my vehicles. I had other plans for this camera concept that go beyond automobiles. There are other good and necessary applications for this kind of tech that would by necessity need Cloud functionality.

So, for me - this was something of a POC purchase and attempt to establish that it works to a level and degree that is acceptable. Right now, at least Blackvue is failing at proving that to me. Having said that, Blackvue (right now) is the only Retail/Consumer game in town for Cloud functional cams which don't take much time to install. However, there are other direct applications that I had in mind as well.

There is nothing new about Cloud Cams. They've been around for a while now in a fixed/attached installation running through a bulky DVR. Plenty of those around. But, the mobile nature of this is what intrigues me and causes me to think about doing other things with it. For that, the Cloud is not only desirable but integral.
 
Key is 'lifetime'. Once the company goes under for lack of money their lifetime is over. :(

Idealism is wonderful but it has to be tempered with a healthy dose of reality and fiscal responsibility.

Which is a function of risk at the time of purchase and accepted as such by the buyer. I just bought a new vehicle and purchased some lifetime warranty items along with it. If the company "goes under" for any reason - their lifetime is over and so are my paid for warranty items. That's the inherent risk of doing business with an entity offering a lifetime warranty. It has little to do with the efficacy of the underlying technology in question. One has nothing to do with the other.
 
Which is a function of risk at the time of purchase and accepted as such by the buyer...
But the risk of failure is much higher when the 'promise' is lifetime service for a fixed cost vs. lifetime service on a subscription basis. I'd much rather pay the recurring cost on the assumption that on ongoing revenue stream will greatly enhance the possibility of ongoing service. The other option is assuming the service provider will keep attracting sufficient new business to support the old customers as well as the new. There's a name for this - Ponzi scheme.
 
There is an answer for this, but I doubt Blackvue is truly interested in doing it the right way.
personally I don't see their cloud offering as being much more than a marketing gimmick, Thinkware are said to be releasing something as well but I suspect it won't be much better

rather than these patchy services they probably would have been better to allow a custom option for people to set events to upload to the server of their choice, Dropbox, Googledrive, private server etc, still has gimmick value at this stage though I think
 
Lets focus on solid state storage in dashcams, and that can then be encrypted to your hearts contend, and if need buried deep in your car.
 
CessnaCj4, I don't agree on the home hack risk, but we'll leave it at that other than to say if the Koreans are allegedly interested in your pc you must have nuclear secrets or a comedy film of a famous world leader on there!

As for wireless cameras, even wireless CCTV cameras don't attain the same quality of picture as there wired counterparts, so I don't hold out much hope of you achieving this incar, and most CCTV cameras use bit rates under 9mbs (because there's no real movement in the picture). A dashcam might get away with this stationary, but I doubt you'll get a good picture that's artefact free with less than 9mbs on the move.

I see where you're coming from when parked, that wasn't clear above. However, dashcams generally don't get stolen (although this is a concern for myself), but if they did, the answer is as Kamkar said and as the police do, and that's to have have camera on the dash and the recorder in the boot locked away.
 
Indeed also why i keep as much as i can offline.

A 19 YO kid was just busted here trying to buy a H&K ( MP5 i think ) and 550 pices of ammo over the dark web, only problem was the seller was some undisclosed foreign intelligence agency.

Sadly baiting are not allowed here, such a nice and simple way to get rid of people with unwanted tendencies.


If it was an H&K then at least he had good taste and a sense of quality engineering, functionality and design. Probably should spank him for being so stupid, but also check and validate (somewhere down the road) his insight and intuition (maybe when he gets out of jail or juve).

H&K is like Ferrari in the sense that they don't get a whole lot better.
 
But the risk of failure is much higher when the 'promise' is lifetime service for a fixed cost vs. lifetime service on a subscription basis.

Higher risk for which entity, the customer or the seller?


I'd much rather pay the recurring cost on the assumption that on ongoing revenue stream will greatly enhance the possibility of ongoing service.

You mean incentivizing the company. I recently paid Verizon to handle my Hotspot service. They messed it up so bad that I vowed never to do business with Verizon again. They probably have millions of customers adding to their revenue stream with month reoccurring payments. I'm not convinced that will keep a company in business or give them the desire to produce a better product long term.


The other option is assuming the service provider will keep attracting sufficient new business to support the old customers as well as the new. There's a name for this - Ponzi scheme.

Which would basically turn Boeing and Airbus (just to name a few that I am familiar with) into a giant Ponzi agent. I don't get it. A one time fixed payment to a company for providing both Hardware and Services for life, is not a new business model concept. It has been done before and very successfully without resolving or dissolving into a Ponzi Scheme.

A reoccurring monthly payment is not a problem for me personally. However, I prefer one fixed payment for the simple fact that it reduces my overall expenditures as a customer long term. Better for the consumer. Businesses come to an end all the time for reasons having to do with poor customer service and poor quality, far more than they do for a lack of revenue due to having a fixed/lifetime payment model.

Truth is - I'll pay Apple/Sony/Samsung/HTC/etc., whatever they want (within reason) if they can delivery reliable hardware, software and services that work according to specifications. I just want something that finally does what the box (website) says it is supposed to do. I'm not really asking for much more than that. The current crop of cam makers don't seem to be able to deliver on that very well.
 
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