LiFePO4 and LTO power bank for dash camera fully manufactured in the UK (Europe)

-Pizdys-

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Dash Cam
better than yours....
From April 2020 I'm testing LiFePO4 and LTO power bank fully manufactured in the UK, Manufacturer planning to open a second manufacturing line in Germany (there will be stamp "Made in Germany").
I have received two battery versions for testing purposes (based on LTO and LFP Cells).

Power bank will be available in Q1-Q2 2021, manufacturer also declares that the prices will be in around:
£169 for the LiFePO4 (6200mAh@12.8V)
£109
for the extended LiFePO4 battery pack (12000mAh@12.8V)
£199
for the LTO version (LTO has a lower capacity 4500mAh but battery charging time is just 10minutes!!)

Here is some pictures of the product and specification:

LiFePO4 power bank specs:
- Rated Capacity: 6200mAh@12.8V (measured capacity is 6342mAh with the Viofo A129 DUO 2CH)
- Combination: 4S LiFePO4 Cells (Cylindrical with pressure valve)
- Charging time: 1h 20 minutes via cigar lighter plug
- Compatible with 12V (<15V) and 24V (<30V) (works with standard cars and also with lorries, busses...)
- low voltage protection cut-off (if the input voltage is lower than 12V power bank will stop charging also RED light will appear)
- Battery cycle life 5000+ 80% DOD (13years every day charge / discharge)
- 12V output and ACC +12V (for the dash cams with parking mode)
- Build-in 5V efficient step-down converter (Monolithic Power Systems from USA) less than 1% energy loses on conversion.
- 10Sec delay start charging (easy to start the engine in wintertime)
- based on 4 large Lifepo4 Cells (means low risk of damage power bank compared to the Cellink NEO6 which uses 16 cells, if one cell is damaged all power bank is not working completely).
- Full aluminum body
- Extended connection to another dedicated LiFePO4 battery (extra 12000mAh for less than £109)
- Easy installation with spring connector, no soldering required, no screwdriver, just press the orange button and put the unshielded cable inside (connector secure wire very well)
- Power bank use a smart LTC charging controller (Smart charging chip made in USA)

Safety Features:
- OTP - Over-Temperature Protection (60C or more = STOP charging & RED Light )
- SCP - Short Circuit Protection (RED Light & STOP charging)
- RVP - Reverse Voltage Protection (RED Light & STOP charging)
- OCP - Overcharge Protection (Internal BMS with CV,CC)
- 10sec soft-start charging delay
- no fire, no explosion thanks to the LiFePO4 cells (4S)

Dash Cam running times on a single charge (1h:20min):
Viofo A119 V3: 50h
Viofo A129 DUO: 31h
Viofo A129 DUO 4K: 25h
Viofo A129 (1ch): 49h
Blackvue DR750S 2CH: 22h
Blackvue DR900S 2CH: 16h
Thinkware F800 PRO 2CH: 23h (Parking mode: Motion detection)
Thinkware Q800 PRO 2CH: 22h (Parking mode: Motion detection)

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Nice size and looks to be well done :) but having a plug with the push-button output wire connections seems redundant; just put those on the unit itself and save a possible point of failure. Liking the LTO option- that technology is still a bit new and costly but the rapidity of charging is unequaled and that sometimes matters a lot.

Best wishes for their success as this part of the dashcam world needs more selection and competition :cool:

Phil
 
Nice.
Thats also about the size i was expecting / hoping the main unit on remote systems would be, at least i would not mind if they was that size.
Maybe some day someone will combine power pack and dashcam in 1 unit.
 
This is great news, I was going to buy a seperate LifePO4 battery at some point, but COVID has made me hold off on that as I am still not sure how much the car will be used when everything is back to normal. I'd be really interested in this, we need more competition in this area.

My only question would be does it have any low temperature cutoff (like below 0deg C) or does it have some other type of low temp mitigation for this (like a built in heater)
 
My only question would be does it have any low temperature cutoff (like below 0deg C) or does it have some other type of low temp mitigation for this (like a built in heater)
LiFePO4 and LTO are more cold-tolerant than LiIon, but you still have a lower limit for charging. Discharging is lower than that. Not many of these batteries advertise low-temp protection no matter who makes them at any price level, and most which do advertise it actually don't have it! :eek:

In cold weather, most cars will be warmed above freezing quickly (which is close to these limits based on battery type) and I've never heard of any problems in this save for extremely cold climates, so I would not worry about it ;) Over-temp is our usual problem and this claims to be protected for that (although again advertising and reality occasionally differ but not very often :cautious:).

It is a very good question though, as anyone using this kind of thing needs to understand how to treat them because abuse can have large unwanted consequences.

Phil
 
LiFePO4 and LTO are more cold-tolerant than LiIon,
They should still not be charged below freezing, unless they have built in heaters:

When it comes to recharging lithium-ion batteries, however, there’s one hard and fast rule: to prevent irreversible damage to the battery, don’t charge them when the temperature falls below freezing (0°C or 32°F) without reducing the charge current.

They can explode or catch fire if charged quickly below freezing.

LTO seems to be -10 for charging, so better than the other lithium types.
 
The charging below zero is actually not an issue for me as my temperature controlled relay that I installed last year is still going strong (y)

So the minute they come available for sale I'd probably buy one anyway :D

I haven't heard any disaster stories about charging LifePO4 below freezing but I think it was Nigel that actually alerted me about this last year, hence my safe approach to this.
 
I haven't heard any disaster stories about charging LifePO4 below freezing but I think it was Nigel that actually alerted me about this last year, hence my safe approach to this.
There don't seem to be many examples of disaster, but it is widely reported on the solar power forums that capacity is severely damaged whenever charged below freezing unless done very slowly.

One example of disaster:

And why you should be careful, although the cause of this is not known:
 
Those guys filming, should not have been there when me and my friend went into hero mode when "our" fireworks factory went up in smoke.
At least not without a 1000 MM tele lens :)
Though when we did get the few 100 M from my friend place to the factory it was clear that,,,,,,,, NOPE dont get too close, but still had to help people staggering out of the inferno.
2 people died that day, and we knew that before the fire department and police got there as the boss our good fireworks connection was one of the guys we helped out of there.

Actually the press photo of the year ( 1996 ) was from that event, showing one of the guys with burns getting dowsed with water.
 
LTO and LiFePO4 are more cold tolerant in their discharge temps. I NEVER said they could be charged below freezing- in fact I did say they do have a lower limit (in other words do not charge below this number) for charging which every rechargable battery also does.

If you're going to quote people you should include the entire relevant statement, not just chopped-put parts which lose their context.

Phil
 
if that's retail then the price is competitive

Yes, that's a retail price.

[...] My only question would be does it have any low temperature cutoff (like below 0deg C) or does it have some other type of low temp mitigation for this (like a built in heater)

According to my conversation with the manufacturer today:
Yes, Power Bank has Low-temperature protection (0C or less) and high-temperature protection (60C or more) both versions LiFePO4 and LTO.
If power bank temperature reach 0 degree Celsius or less, power bank will not start charge itself (RED +BLUE LED will turn ON once when we will try to charge it),
Output power is still ON (even if temperature is below 0C), so the dash camera will be still powered (eg. winter when car will be parked).

If temperature will be again in range 1C - 59C power bank will start charge itself normally and RED LED fault will disappear...

I have checked this now:
I have placed power bank in fridge for 4 hours, and I have checked current consumption (oscillated between 0.0 - 0.1A - indeed not charging):

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Regarding High-Temperature protection:
If temperature reach 60C -> and we will attempt to charge power bank -> RED LED will turn ON, and power bank will not start charge itself until power bank will cool down (similar like in Low-Temp scenario),
output power is still ON, but this time until temperature reach <70C, and if temperature is higher than 70C all power outputs will be cut out (dash cam will turn off).
Everything will back to normal once when temperature will be again in range 1C - 59C.

If Power Bank temperature reach 85C or more - power bank will permanently switch OFF itself, and internal protection circuit prevent device to turn ON again, even if temperature will back to normal (power bank will be permanently "death").
in worst case scenario:
if any battery cell by some reason will be physically damaged or extremely overheated (in fire?) internal LiFePO4 cells have pleasure valve (2.5MPA) which will open to prevent battery cell to explode,
it will not catch a fire due to battery chemistry (LiFePO4) and cylindrical battery construction, also whole aluminium case prevent device to catch a fire, additionally internal PCB is covered by special ESD potting compound which is fire resistant and cover PCB against wet/moisture.

[sample picture]

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Long time ago I have removed 2 battery Cells from the Cellink B battery (Cellink B also uses Cylindrical LiFePo4 cells with pleasure valve),
I have tried to damage those cells to see what really can happen (battery cells was already fully charged to 3.6V),
and.... nothing.... nothing really happen, one pleasure valve indeed was open but I didn't see any smoke or noise when that happened, I didn't even see this at the first time when I was hold batteries in my hands,
I just saw this later when I was inspected batteries at home, when I was checked pictures on my smartphone.

This is how battery cells looks like after my attempts to destroy:
to be honest, Yes, there was a moment when batteries was really warm, I forgot to take my laser thermometer, but I'm sure temp was below water boil point because I was still able to hold batteries it in my hands (something around 80C?).

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Here is some useful videos where other people truing to damage LiFePO4 cells:


Electric short circuit:


LTO technology is indeed very impressive, hope will be more popular:

 
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If Power Bank temperature reach 85C or more - power bank will permanently switch OFF itself, and internal protection circuit prevent device to turn ON again, even if temperature will back to normal (power bank will be permanently "death").
in worst case scenario:
would need to be careful where it's mounted, have seen higher temps than 85°C inside the car in summer in Australia, unlikely to be a problem in the UK though I guess
 
would need to be careful where it's mounted, have seen higher temps than 85°C inside the car in summer in Australia, unlikely to be a problem in the UK though I guess
If the temperature of the battery cells is higher than 85°C, isn't the camera going to stop recording anyway? Especially if the camera is windscreen mounted.

How high can the SG cameras keep recording?
 
In my opinion, if power bank is not exposed on direct sunlight temperature shouldn't reach 70C, especially if is placed under car seat or even somewhere in car boot, definitely not in Europe...

Higher temperature than 80C will damage internal LifePo4 battery cells anyway.

...according to the other information, even 70C could cause some battery cell degradation if exposed for long time:


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@-Pizdys-
That's a very good protection scheme and extra-good that you actually tested it (y)Too many fake claims in the world and so nice to see this doing what it should do in every regard.

Phil
 
@-Pizdys-
That's a very good protection scheme and extra-good that you actually tested it (y)Too many fake claims in the world and so nice to see this doing what it should do in every regard.

Phil
Agreed, seems to have been done properly which is always good to see.

Only improvement would be a heater, but I think that is hard to do that properly since it will take a while for the heat to soak into the cells, and by then your commute to work is likely to be almost over! Like Joe384, I have a temperature cut off relay for my lipo powerbank, set at 3° C, it is surprising how often it doesn't charge in the winter even though I'm not in a particularly cold place.
 
I think as long as you slow charge, the cameras should heat them self up and "soon" be ready to receive the full charge rate.
Just charging my 18650 batteries with 1 A, they do get warm, add to that the heat of the car if it is installed in a place where cabin heater reach, and we should be fine.
 
Heaters may be worse than no heater. One poor soul thought his off-grid hunting cabin system would be OK because the batteries were heated, but it went colder longer than he expected, so when they went empty the heat went away as did about $4K worth of batteries :eek: With no heaters you know what to expect :geek:

Save for the harshest climates I don't think it will be much of an issue here.

Phil
 
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