Linus tech tips on dashcams.

[Nigel]

Thanks

I do run a couple of ad and tracker blockers plus a browser that also has a built in blocker.

Opera, Privacy Badger and uBlock Origin

I'm not convinced that these blockers are actually of overall benefit to you. If you do a google search for something, in a lot of cases it can definitely return better results if it knows more about you. In general, they are going to avoid doing anything negative since they want to keep you about. Likewise if you are watching Youtube, it can give you far better recommendations for what to watch if it knows more about you. I definitely don't want to watch random Youtube adverts, but some adverts are useful, and if it can target them well then why block them, you can always skip the ones that are of no interest anyway, and then it learns not to use those again, unless you block/turn off the tracking. It is the adverts that pay for most of the content, without them we would need to pay subscriptions to Google/Youtube/etc., if we want them to exist, and there are a number of channels on Youtube that I definitely do want to exist. Presumably the same goes for this forum, it is paid for by the adverts, so if you want it to exist then you shouldn't block them, although if you contribute content to the forum, as you have just done, then you don't get them anyway. On the other hand, if like Kamkar you don't trust Google, then maybe it is better to block everything, or maybe to succeed in staying private actually requires you to not go near a computer/phone/connected device of any sort!

 

[Skylar132]

That's a fair time to perform the initial review, then highlight any failings as they happen. You can't beat long term owner reviews.

How many Amazon reviews follow the pattern - "arrived on time yesterday, 5 stars"

There are a few posts here for one manufacturer showing burst dashcam cases, presumably heat related and expanding internals.

I got my first V3 about 3 months after release and it's still going strong.

bit off topic but it really annoys me when someone writes "havent used it yet but it looks good 5 stars"

 

[Kremmen]

If you want to see a constant stream of silly nonsense, often one word comments, look at what people post for Google Home in the Google Play store. Hundreds a day.

I just don't understand these posters.

 

[DT MI]

bit off topic but it really annoys me when someone writes "havent used it yet but it looks good 5 stars"

My 'favorite' is: "Ordered the wrong thing and had to return it - 1 Star".

 

[mentadent]

Targetted adverts just seem thoughtful and a way to fund web sites like mine. I think the
oh who cares just think what you think

 

[Dashmellow]

Thanks

I do run a couple of ad and tracker blockers plus a browser that also has a built in blocker.

Opera, Privacy Badger and uBlock Origin

uBlock Origin is an excellent tool for enhancing online privacy, increasing security and thwarting targeted advertising.

Among its various features and capabilities, it uses a wide array of user selectable filter lists from many sources to block behavioral marketing firms, malware and advertising. Of the three items you listed, uBlock is probably the primary tool that is protecting you from seeing any targeted advertisements.

Another good way to way to preserve your privacy is to use a privacy oriented search engine rather than Google. DuckDuckGo and Startpage are good but there are other interesting search engines worth exploring as well.


uBlock Origin filter lists:

 

[Vortex Radar]

So I've been thinking about the video all week and planning on doing a followup video. I think he had a lot of great points like how many dashcams stink in terms of video quality and how many dashcams rely on similar hardware.

He didn't seem to appreciate the benefits of 4K dashcams and how can sometimes give you an edge in picking up plates a little farther away, something especially beneficial for dashcams with wide angle lenses.

GoPros do sometimes offer better video quality, but even with their newer sensors and tech, they also can't reliably capture plates all the time.

Freeze framing action is tough, regardless of how much you pay or if you're using a dashcam or a GoPro. This is especially true at dusk or at night. It's easier in the daytime, but how the manufacturer optimizes shutter speeds in bright conditions plays a big factor too and isn't something you'll necessarily see reflected in cost or resolution.

I've been running 5 dashcams the past couple days (U1000, DR900X+, A229, A119 v3, and GoPro Hero 9) collecting sample footage and I've been finding good examples of sometimes when higher end dashcams show a benefit and other times when the lower end ones may do a better job at freezing plates.

Either way I think it's a good idea to have realistic expectations of what dashcams are and aren't capable of.

Something that I wasn't expecting to see was that while shooting a GoPro in 5K did help with overall clarity beyond 2K and 4K dashcams, even it struggled in certain conditions too so while it's true that many current dashcams rely on processors and SoC's that are several years old now, it's not like the newer tech will automatically solve some of the issues he addressed. In fact I thought it was gonna do a little better until I did some testing this week, lol.

 

[Skylar132]

My 'favorite' is: "Ordered the wrong thing and had to return it - 1 Star".

seen one saying "has to be plugged in while driving, 1 star" some people have more money than brains

 

[Lothar]

You are also paying by buying the products that are advertised by Google related advertising on YouTube, Google Searches, mobile apps, etc. The adverts being targeted based on your interests and life history, including what you have searched for in Google and in YouTube, plus what channels you are subscribed to in YouTube, how many minutes you have spent watching the Linus Dashcam Review, where you live, when you last moved home, when you last had a death/birth/wedding in the family, where your sister went on holiday last year and what holidays she has searched for recently, etc...

Not necessarily a bad thing, in fact accurate targeting of advertising can be very useful to you, possibly saving you a lot of time and money, but there is also the potential to use the information in negative ways, and it is very easy for them to invade your privacy, and very easy for them to control your interests and thus life in certain ways, you maybe don't want that information getting into the hands of a political organisation!

With Google, that will never happen.
Facebook and Google operate on very different advertising models.

Facebook gives your information, demographics, location, likes, and interests directly to the advertiser to run their campaigns and those advertisers target you directly.
Google keeps all the data to itself and runs the campaign. The advertiser will never know your information, demographics, location, likes, and interests. After all, if Google gives all this information to the advertiser company, why should they come back for a second campaign with Google now that they have the information? For Facebook, they are not worried about such a thing because they are the biggest network with billions of users so the advertisers will always have more potential and reach...People always supply their information willy-nilly ("in a relationship" status, "religion", "political party", "favorite TV shows", "favorite movies", "which high school you went to", and other crap are things that Facebook's billions of users voluntarily supply) to both Facebook and it's advertisers.

Some call Google a monopoly because it collects all the data, keeps it to itself, and does not share anything with 3rd parties. No doubt that they advertise the privacy angle as the reason for not sharing user data, but no reason that it can't also be a financial angle/motive for them as well.

Two very different advertising models being run by 2 different companies that have proven to be very effective and are successful in their own ways.
I'm slightly more okay with the Google model in that my information does not get passed down to the advertiser and remains solely with Google...Unlike Facebook. The negative is that only makes them stronger.
Apple is also headed in the Google direction as well which is why they have gutted ad tracking in the latest iOS updates and implemented transparency because they would like serve as the point of contact between it's users and the advertising company to defend their users privacy...and no doubt take 30% of ad revenue as well.

I'm not convinced that these blockers are actually of overall benefit to you. If you do a google search for something, in a lot of cases it can definitely return better results if it knows more about you. In general, they are going to avoid doing anything negative since they want to keep you about. Likewise if you are watching Youtube, it can give you far better recommendations for what to watch if it knows more about you. I definitely don't want to watch random Youtube adverts, but some adverts are useful, and if it can target them well then why block them, you can always skip the ones that are of no interest anyway, and then it learns not to use those again, unless you block/turn off the tracking. It is the adverts that pay for most of the content, without them we would need to pay subscriptions to Google/Youtube/etc., if we want them to exist, and there are a number of channels on Youtube that I definitely do want to exist. Presumably the same goes for this forum, it is paid for by the adverts, so if you want it to exist then you shouldn't block them, although if you contribute content to the forum, as you have just done, then you don't get them anyway. On the other hand, if like Kamkar you don't trust Google, then maybe it is better to block everything, or maybe to succeed in staying private actually requires you to not go near a computer/phone/connected device of any sort!

I will always prefer paying to get rid of tracking if possible.
Ex: When Google came out with Google Play Music All-access about a decade ago, I got in at the early $7.99 launch deal because in addition to the lower price it had the benefit of getting rid of YouTube ads for free. There is no viable music streaming service that cost anywhere near that price today, nor is there one that gets rid of YouTube ads as a benefit. I saw value there and I am grandfathered in that plan. I don't see myself canceling anytime soon.

I use Chrome, Ghostery, and uBlock Origin...I'm still a bit suspicious of ad blocking tools because at the end of the day some random ad company is going to buy them out or they will sell themselves to the highest bidder (see: AdBlock vs AdBlock Plus debacle...or uBlock vs uBlock Origin debacle), but I do still use them.
DuckDuckGo does not give good search results at all from my experience, and they block everything except trackers from Microsoft because even they do not have the power to bite the hand that feeds them.
You're better of just using either Startpage or just Google itself with Ghostery and uBlock Origin.

I like Startpage's moto:

You can’t beat Google when it comes to online search. So we’re paying them to use their brilliant search results in order to remove all trackers and logs. The result: The world’s best and most private search engine. Only now you can search without ads following you around, recommending products you’ve already bought. And no more data mining by companies with dubious intentions. We want you to dance like nobody’s watching and search like nobody’s watching.

 

[Lothar]

So I've been thinking about the video all week and planning on doing a followup video. I think he had a lot of great points like how many dashcams stink in terms of video quality and how many dashcams rely on similar hardware.

He didn't seem to appreciate the benefits of 4K dashcams and how can sometimes give you an edge in picking up plates a little farther away, something especially beneficial for dashcams with wide angle lenses.

GoPros do sometimes offer better video quality, but even with their newer sensors and tech, they also can't reliably capture plates all the time.

Freeze framing action is tough, regardless of how much you pay or if you're using a dashcam or a GoPro. This is especially true at dusk or at night. It's easier in the daytime, but how the manufacturer optimizes shutter speeds in bright conditions plays a big factor too and isn't something you'll necessarily see reflected in cost or resolution.

I've been running 5 dashcams the past couple days (U1000, DR900X+, A229, A119 v3, and GoPro Hero 9) collecting sample footage and I've been finding good examples of sometimes when higher end dashcams show a benefit and other times when the lower end ones may do a better job at freezing plates.

Either way I think it's a good idea to have realistic expectations of what dashcams are and aren't capable of.

Something that I wasn't expecting to see was that while shooting a GoPro in 5K did help with overall clarity beyond 2K and 4K dashcams, even it struggled in certain conditions too so while it's true that many current dashcams rely on processors and SoC's that are several years old now, it's not like the newer tech will automatically solve some of the issues he addressed. In fact I thought it was gonna do a little better until I did some testing this week, lol.

A lot of those supposed higher-end dashcams from BlackVue and Thinkware run at much lower bitrates than dashcam models from Viofo and Street Guardian.
It would not surprise me to see that your A229 or A119 V3 outperforms them in many situations.

The higher up that you go in resolution, the more bitrate that you will need to display those higher resolutions.
The A129 Pro is the only 4K dashcam so far today that gets it right with it's 60Mbps bitrate for the front, but even it will be inferior to a 2K dashcam at night. Perhaps a new Viofo 4K dashcam with "Starvis 2" sensor will change this in the future, and hopefully resolve the heat issue as well (which 4K cams are known for and does not really make them viable for continuous low-bitrate parking mode).
One should not pick a 4K dashcam just because it ticks the 4K checkbox. There are other things that come into play when it comes to viewing license plate details.

 

[Nigel]

We want you to dance like nobody’s watching and search like nobody’s watching.

Nobody ever is watching, only machines!

 

[Nigel]

Something that I wasn't expecting to see was that while shooting a GoPro in 5K did help with overall clarity beyond 2K and 4K dashcams, even it struggled in certain conditions too so while it's true that many current dashcams rely on processors and SoC's that are several years old now, it's not like the newer tech will automatically solve some of the issues he addressed. In fact I thought it was gonna do a little better until I did some testing this week, lol.

GoPros really are not designed to record plates for highest readability in freeze frame, they are designed to make action movies where some amount of blur to smooth the transition between frames is desirable, especially at lower frame rates. They also want to use exposure settings (contrast, brightness, gamma, WDR) that make an impressive movie, they have no interested in making sure that the bicycle hidden in the shadows is visible in all lighting conditions. So unless an action camera has a "dashcam" exposure setting/mode, it should not be expected to do as well as a dashcam, except maybe in ideal lighting conditions. It should also have a lens with a less than ideal field of view for dashcam use.

He didn't seem to appreciate the benefits of 4K dashcams and how can sometimes give you an edge in picking up plates a little farther away, something especially beneficial for dashcams with wide angle lenses.

Yes, he was concentrating on readability of plates and signs, so should have commented on resolution differences, but I think he was just keeping things simple, it is the readability that mattered, not what resolution the camera was, and in reality the 4K Blackvue doesn't record more resolution than a 2K Viofo A119 V3 while you are actually moving, it has less bitrate than the Viofo, so doesn't have a chance to store enough resolution unless you are parked!

 

[Vortex Radar]

GoPros really are not designed to record plates for highest readability in freeze frame, they are designed to make action movies where some amount of blur to smooth the transition between frames is desirable, especially at lower frame rates. They also want to use exposure settings (contrast, brightness, gamma, WDR) that make an impressive movie, they have no interested in making sure that the bicycle hidden in the shadows is visible in all lighting conditions. So unless an action camera has a "dashcam" exposure setting/mode, it should not be expected to do as well as a dashcam, except maybe in ideal lighting conditions. It should also have a lens with a less than ideal field of view for dashcam use.

I just did some testing yesterday and today and am surprised how poorly my GoPro managed to freeze frame action.

Even in bright sunlight with the manual shutter speed setting set to the fastest option (1/480th), 5K30, and the bitrate set to high (100 Mbps), street signs were clear, but license plates on cars driving the other direction were still blurry.

Also going to 5K does give a sliiiight edge in being able to read plates a little farther away, but you're not gonna read plates 100' away or anything, lol.
From Linus' video you get the impression that all dashcams use the same old tech and so they suck, but given the testing I'm doing even with newer tech, it's not the dramatic improvement I was expecting.

GoPro 9's and 10's use the Sony IMX677 which uses a 23.9 MP sensor which is a dramatic jump over 5-8 MP sensors, but it's still not as mindblowing as I was expecting, both stationary or when moving.

 

[Nigel]

GoPro 9's and 10's use the Sony IMX677 which uses a 23.9 MP sensor which is a dramatic jump over 5-8 MP sensors, but it's still not as mindblowing as I was expecting, both stationary or when moving.

4K video contains 8MP, so you only need an 8MP sensor to get full resolution. OK, a 32MP would be perfect, but you are not going to see much improvement above 8MP. The 23.9 MP sensor does allow the GoPro to have a choice of fields of view while still having high quality 4K, and also allows for the image stabilisation without losing sharpness, but dashcams don't need to worry about such things. Meanwhile its pixels are only 31% the size of the Viofo A119 V3 pixels, which makes it very hard for the GoPro to compete in low light. Have you turned image stabilisation off?

I just did some testing yesterday and today and am surprised how poorly my GoPro managed to freeze frame action.

Almost nobody freeze frames GoPro footage, so it isn't trying to do a good job, more important to include some motion blur to avoid visible stepping between frames. People do want smooth footage, that is why they keep asking for 60fps dashcams, but smooth footage and sharp freeze frames don't go together.

Even in bright sunlight with the manual shutter speed setting set to the fastest option (1/480th),

I think that is quite slow, in bright sunshine I expect the A119 V3 is using 1/2000th, maybe faster.


I think you need to include a phone, preferably an iPhone 11 or later, there seem to be a huge number of people that think their phone will do a better job than the proper dashcams, but I'm sure that is far from the case. I did test an iPhone 11 in the dark once, it does a fantastic job with handheld photos in the dark, but used as a dashcam - not good at all!


There are also a lot of comments on that Linus video with people saying they will make their own dashcam with a Raspberry Pi, and it will do a much better job than the normal dashcams. There have been a few people say the same on this forum, but I've never seen the results from one! I'm not suggesting you try, but it would be interesting to hear from someone who knows what is possible... I suspect not much.

 

[Vortex Radar]

4K video contains 8MP, so you only need an 8MP sensor to get full resolution. OK, a 32MP would be perfect, but you are not going to see much improvement above 8MP. The 23.9 MP sensor does allow the GoPro to have a choice of fields of view while still having high quality 4K, and also allows for the image stabilisation without losing sharpness, but dashcams don't need to worry about such things. Meanwhile its pixels are only 31% the size of the Viofo A119 V3 pixels, which makes it very hard for the GoPro to compete in low light. Have you turned image stabilisation off?

Good points. I just got back and am offloading nighttime footage. I ran GoPro 9 vs. A229 and am about to start comparing footage. I did IS off the whole time and tested auto exposure, fastest shutter speed (1/480), ISO 1600 (default max), ISO 6400 (max available), driving vs. parked recording, and more.

Almost nobody freeze frames GoPro footage, so it isn't trying to do a good job, more important to include some motion blur to avoid visible stepping between frames. People do want smooth footage, that is why they keep asking for 60fps dashcams, but smooth footage and sharp freeze frames don't go together.

That's an interesting point, given the priority for video... Yeah at 60 fps, you'd want 1/120th as your go-to shutter speed. At 30 fps, you'd aim for 1/60th.

I think that is quite slow, in bright sunshine I expect the A119 V3 is using 1/2000th, maybe faster.

Very likely. 1/480th really isn't cutting it.

I think you need to include a phone, preferably an iPhone 11 or later, there seem to be a huge number of people that think their phone will do a better job than the proper dashcams, but I'm sure that is far from the case. I did test an iPhone 11 in the dark once, it does a fantastic job with handheld photos in the dark, but used as a dashcam - not good at all!

ooh I didn't think of that! Yeah I can go back out and do phone vs. GoPro vs. dashcam, lol. I'm hoping to get the video done tomorrow and I've only got a few hours and lot to do so maybe I should save phone comparisons for another dedicated video, haha.

 

[Nigel]

Yeah at 60 fps, you'd want 1/120th as your go-to shutter speed. At 30 fps, you'd aim for 1/60th.

That is what the movie makers would choose, the magic formula, and maybe the reason your maximum manual setting is 1/480th, so that it will allow the movie makers to record at the maximum 1/240fps and still use their magic formula? Personally I would normally choose faster than the magic formula for an action camera because otherwise vibrations cause too much motion blur, which EIS stabilisation can't correct, the rule should be a rough guide anyway rather than a exact rule, it works well for tripod mounting, but that is not how you are supposed to use an action camera!

Very likely. 1/480th really isn't cutting it.

1/480th is what I would hope for in night footage! Don't think the current generation of dashcams are succeeding, hopefully the new Starvis 2 sensors will.


Having found that GoPro can't beat a Viofo, next challenge should be something like Blueskysea's B4K, a cheap but genuine 4K dashcam. I think the B4K would win fairly convincingly, although it is not the sharpest 4K dashcam, and it does struggle a bit with motion blur at night.

 

[Vortex Radar]

The B4K

Don't think the current generation of dashcams are succeeding, hopefully the new Starvis 2 sensors will.

What dashcams on the market use the Starvis 2 sensors?

Having found that GoPro can't beat a Viofo, next challenge should be something like Blueskysea's B4K, a cheap but genuine 4K dashcam. I think the B4K would win fairly convincingly, although it is not the sharpest 4K dashcam, and it does struggle a bit with motion blur at night.

So I bought one a while ago and have been wanting to do some testing. 4K and buffered parking recording for $100 sounds awesome, plus you can add an optional rear cam (though you drop down to 24 fps instead of 30). However the codec they use has compatibility issues with my video editor (FinalCut) so I'm not able to do my typical testing and review with it unless I want to manually convert each video to another file type. I've run it briefly and looked at video footage in VLC and the footage looks okay. Maybe one day they'll update their codec to one that I can use without having to convert the video files first which is tedious and degrades video quality.

 

[Nigel]

What dashcams on the market use the Starvis 2 sensors?

I don't think any are yet, not sure that Sony are even in mass production yet, of the dashcam suitable sensors anyway. They are on their way though.

 

[Lothar]

I'm expecting a 2K Dashcam with Starvis 2 sensor using IMX675 to be released first before a 4K one.
I don't even see any 4K Starvis 2 sensor that is 1/2.8 listed...Sure, there is 1/1.8 and 1/1.2 but those will be much more expensive.





Sony did a paper launch of IMX675 last month with expected sample ship date August 2022. I'm sure that we will see one about 2 years from now sometime in 2024 once all the engineering and testing from Viofo and others have come into place.
If you read the link below, you will also see that Sony is comparing IMX675 to IMX335, meaning this is essentially it's replacement or Starvis 2 equivalent.

Sony Semiconductor Solutions to Release Industry's First*1 CMOS Image Sensor for Security Cameras That Simultaneously Delivers Full-Pixel Output of Captured Images and High-Speed Output of Regions of Interest

<p>Sony Semiconductor Solutions Corporation (SSS) today announced the upcoming release of the IMX675, a 1/3-type CMOS image sensor for security cameras with approximately 5.12 megapixels*2 that...</p>

www.sony.com

 

[kamkar]

I did take a couple of drives with my dji Osmo action camera in the windscreen, and as i recall its 4K and at least 2 X higher bitrate did not make me faint in awe of its plate capturing powers.

I have hopes for starvis 2, though they are probably higher than the sensor will be able to honor.