Looking for dash and action cams that you can use as a normal camera?

[Stev]

Hi, I'm interested in finding dash cams and action cams you can use as normal cameras. I've got an action camera here, by the controls are obtrusive. I am looking for one with good quality zoom lens with focus, or replacable lens, and good controls like camcorder settings, even manual controls? I can then use it for filming outside the car.

Thanks.

 

[thancam]

Best suit with your demanding:
https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/forums/mobius.38/

 

[Stev]

Thanks. I just checked it out, but a bit low spec. Pity they didn't go 4k.

 

[thancam]

Thanks. I just checked it out, but a bit low spec. Pity they didn't go 4k.

Do you want to zoom out image or something ?
almost every screen on laptop or phone or computer has 1080p resolution. When you play 4k footage on 1080p resolution screen, you cant see all details of 4k footage anyway.

 

[Stev]

Ahm, I am sure I have a SD CRT TV around, but I don't want to use it. You can get 4k for years for $399. Why would you buy a 65 inch+ uhd tv for $700 and only use fullHD on it. 8k is the limit for real good eyesight. At 4k the pixels seem to start blending, I think 8k is more objectionable, unless you are more under 21 with real good eyesight.

When you are doing normal shooting outside of the car, you want high bit rate, and to be able to set the zoom, focus, aperture and gain live hands on controls, and the shutter and 50/60p4k/fullhd, to make great images. So, somewhere down that path might be a camera with some of those features.

 

[Nigel]

Hi, I'm interested in finding dash cams and action cams you can use as normal cameras. I've got an action camera here, by the controls are obtrusive. I am looking for one with good quality zoom lens with focus, or replacable lens, and good controls like camcorder settings, even manual controls? I can then use it for filming outside the car.

Thanks.

By definition, an action camera has a fixed focus prime lens with fixed aperture, so your request is not possible!

Dashcams are the same.

 

[Nigel]

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/forums/git3.212/

 

[Stev]

I saw either an action or dash the other day with zoom (pretty useless for 3rd party shooting without). Unfortunately I neglected to write it down, but it led me to come back and post here. Already one older type cam hasBen suggested.

I don't really want to buy a YI 4k+ back out its lens system install a lens mount and hack the firmware to do the something like 170mb/s-220mb/s it's chipset can really do. Too much hassle better to find something more affordable than a $1000 phone to do it (and less restricted compression than a small point and shoot). If anybody can point to good cams that have that extra bit with modern performance, that would be appreciated?

 

[Stev]

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/forums/git3.212/

Yes, beautiful Nigel, thanks. I found this thread there:

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/gitup-g3-video-thread.29971/

Normally you don't get that quality from normal cams.

At least it gets up to fullhdp60.

 

[thancam]

8k is the limit for real good eyesight. At 4k the pixels seem to start blending

depeding on size of screen you want to watch and the distace from screen to eyes. Almost ppl cant notice diffirent between 2k and 1080p on phone screen. But in 32 inch screen, it's easy to do in short distance.

 

[Nigel]

depeding on size of screen you want to watch and the distace from screen to eyes. Almost ppl cant notice diffirent between 2k and 1080p on phone screen. But in 32 inch screen, it's easy to do in short distance.

FHD (1080) is supposed to match the resolution of the average eye, if you can see the difference between 2K and 4K then you are sitting too close to the screen, or your screen is too big for your viewing location. To get the best image quality I think it is still best to buy a really good quality FHD screen than a similar price UHD screen, just make sure that it is the correct size for the location you are going to place it.

 

[Nigel]

Yes, beautiful Nigel, thanks. I found this thread there:

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/gitup-g3-video-thread.29971/

Normally you don't get that quality from normal cams.

At least it gets up to fullhdp60.

Take a look at the photo thread too.

The digital zoom is very limited compared to a full size optical zoom camera, but if you use your legs to get closer you can still get some great photos, and videos.

There are things that action cameras can do that normal cameras can't, and the other way around, they are very different tools.

As for your Yi 4K+ suggestion, it is higher resolution for video than the Gitup G3 and it's 4K frame grabs look really good, but using the G3 at 1080 resolution 60fps with digital zoom and stabilisation that the Yi can't manage has some advantages, it would have been very hard to match this frame grab with the Yi due to it's lower colour resolution, and the professional photographer in my frame grab got a much less interesting photo due to his narrow angle and the fact that he only had 3 photos to choose from while I recorded 60 per second so got the timing perfect:

 

[thancam]

FHD (1080) is supposed to match the resolution of the average eye, if you can see the difference between 2K and 4K then you are sitting too close to the screen, or your screen is too big for your viewing location. To get the best image quality I think it is still best to buy a really good quality FHD screen than a similar price UHD screen, just make sure that it is the correct size for the location you are going to place it.

i think: it's depending on what do you want.
If i want to play 4k video game in my room. I am gonna buy a 2k or 4k resolution screen or 2 or 3 FHD screens and connecting them as one to get a wider view. Then i will sit near the screen with suitable volume speakers.
But if i want to watch HBO with family, then FHD screen is good enough.
And filming: when you have to anwer the question: firming for who ? and they watch it on what ?
If you want to made a pro video for bussiness, 2K is must have and 4k is great. For youtube uploading and family purpose, i think 1080p is good enough.

 

[thancam]

[QUOTE="Nigel

[/QUOTE]
the resolution is not as importan as sensor. A better sensor made the diffirent.
Even a DSLR with only 1080p mode can made a better footage than any action cam.

 

[Stev]

The sensor stuff Sony has coming, is spectacular.

I don't think I have ever heard it suggested that fullHD matched average vision. But this is where respecting the audience comes in. It doesn't matter what we can see, or tv we have or prefer, it's what others can see, what they will legitimately prefer or will but in the future.

Now, everybody that complains they can't see the difference between 4k and fullHD, has poor eyesight, same as the person I saw that claimed that DVD resolution was good enough for theatres. The second issue, is people that sit too far away. There are a few wide feild zones around human vision. The widest is where we have I keep looking around to see things, the second we can just sit there. The inner one is your old CRT TV like scenario, and sitting up the back of the theatre. In THX home certification, the preferred screen size in between 120-200 or so inches. Most excellent size for extreme sports.

Now, most of the population will see 4k or below, and as it gets more difficult to discern 4k seems a happy medium. 8k might be 10-20% of the population who should be happy with 4k instead. So unless you are making a teenage or younger action movie, there might be little point. At 4k most everybody should be happy.

Now, the old formular was 2400 dots per inch monochrome maximum eye resolution, halve to 1200dpi for color, halve again for an emissive screen (I wonder if more for HDR) and I think for some reason or so half again. Anyway gets to around 4k for color pixels filling up your central.wife feild of vision.

Now, another issue. For large poster prints, 4k is not that much, it avertising posters, saying extreme sports. Now, another useful feature is to be able to reframe, refocus and relight an image. Very useful in sports, action. So if we use 2k as a minimum, 4k only allows two screen length, 8k four. But, if you were filming your freinds, or kids, soccer match 16k+ might be desirable (set and forget, then frame at will during playback or editing, same with car video). But, that is only fullHD framing, double or quadruple, for 4k or 8k frames (looks like the sort of tech needed for this is coming). Then sit in front of your 120 inch+ hdr rec2020 modular led TV with your freinds and watch it.


Thancam, I would be hard-pressed to tell the difference between 2k and fullHD on a phone screen too. But when I was well I could see the lines between the pixels in the best cinema screen in town (smaller than 4k) and I know somebody with better vision than that which can pick between pixels on Apple handheld screens. There are people that can see moons around Jupiter and the rings of Saturn.

 

[Dashmellow]

Take a look at the photo thread too.

The digital zoom is very limited compared to a full size optical zoom camera, but if you use your legs to get closer you can still get some great photos, and videos.

There are things that action cameras can do that normal cameras can't, and the other way around, they are very different tools.

As for your Yi 4K+ suggestion, it is higher resolution for video than the Gitup G3 and it's 4K frame grabs look really good, but using the G3 at 1080 resolution 60fps with digital zoom and stabilisation that the Yi can't manage has some advantages, it would have been very hard to match this frame grab with the Yi due to it's lower colour resolution, and the professional photographer in my frame grab got a much less interesting photo due to his narrow angle and the fact that he only had 3 photos to choose from while I recorded 60 per second so got the timing perfect:

@Nigel, I'm curious to know more about this screen capture. The image looks good in some respects but it also appears to suffer from serious oversharpening and the clouds in the sky appear to have some sort of macro-blocking effect which can result from removing a random amount of data from a video file.

Has the image been subjected to a lot of post processing, or is this the image that came directly from the camera?

Oversharpening halos.


Macroblocking

 

[Stev]

Nigel, if they made a 4kp50 version to my liking, I would be happy. Have a look at all the sensor technologies they are about to run out at Sony. Check the industry sensors, like the one that low light bullet cam xiacom did. They now have 4k versions up to 4/3rds in size, and 60p, and HDR video (30p).

 

[Stev]

@Dashmellow Also from insufficent source data rate. The clouds also look shaped. I also would like to know what configuration this came from?

 

[Dashmellow]

@Dashmellow Also from insufficent source data rate. The clouds also look shaped. I also would like to know what configuration this came from?

Yeah, I get your point. I guess "removing a random amount of data from a video file" and "insufficient source data rate" are coming from opposite directions but result in the same thing. The question is "what is the camera doing with the data going in vs the data coming out?"

 

[Nigel]

Nigel, if they made a 4kp50 version to my liking, I would be happy. Have a look at all the sensor technologies they are about to run out at Sony. Check the industry sensors, like the one that low light bullet cam xiacom did. They now have 4k versions up to 4/3rds in size, and 60p, and HDR video (30p).

A couple of years ago we got the first 1080 60fps action cameras with stabilisation, this year we have the first 4K 30fps action cameras with stabilisation, next year we will get the first 4K 60fps cameras with stabilisation. But if you really want to watch on your 120" hdr rec2020 TV and have a perfect HDR image then it will be several more years before you don't need a $30,000 professional camera! A lot of professionals are still using FHD cameras so you have to get used to lower quality video anyway.

Seems the macro-blocking in my frame-grab came mainly from the video decoder. I used VSDC to grab the frame because that lets me easily step through individual frames one at a time and then press the frame-grab button. Playing the video in Windows Media Player and pressing the PrtScn button makes it far less obvious, but very hard to get the same frame! If you want to see faults then there will always be some available to be seen.