M2 Discussion

There's an odd thing about the M2. It's not that it lacks optical sharpness, it often lacks acuity. Photographically speaking, there is a difference.
 
their core hardware components are fine, not what I would have chosen personally for this type of device, but fine nonetheless, the problems are elsewhere
 
Whatever the reason, I don't think anyone will disagree that the progress is going slow. In my business the whole of the picture requires numerous different skills and abilities. I can now do every one of them; some I am good at and some I'm not. Some I like doing and some I don't. My customers don't really care who does the work as long as its done well in good time with no need for them to become worried about anything. So I farm out those things I'm not good at instead of trying to do them myself, just the same as everyone else in my business does. This is the best business approach :)

If my business were a hobby it wouldn't matter nearly as much, and I think that is what is going wrong with Mobius2. While being a hobbyist offers better insight to what is needed and wanted in that area, you can easily lose yourself in playing with the details that intrigue you while the rest of the things involved pass you by unnoticed :(

So yeah, Mobius are hobbyist cams designed and built by a hobbyist or two, and that is what makes them so good in that role. But even as a hobbyist, there are advantages to having someone skilled in the processes you are working one being there with you to help you find your way through them faster and better. And if this is indeed a hobby then cost/profit becomes secondary anyway ;)

IMHO the bottom line is that Mobius is losing in that which is possible for themselves and for those of us who would dearly to love to see them get to where they and us both would like them to be, so it's time to take a different approach. Go ahead with the learning process, but put that effort into an M2A or an M3 and let this cam get the help it needs to succeed. I hate to see such wasted potential :oops:

Phil
 
their core hardware components are fine, not what I would have chosen personally for this type of device, but fine nonetheless, the problems are elsewhere
Interesting, would you please elaborate further?

Whatever the reason, I don't think anyone will disagree that the progress is going slow. .....

IMHO the bottom line is that Mobius is losing in that which is possible for themselves and for those of us who would dearly to love to see them get to where they and us both would like them to be, so it's time to take a different approach. Go ahead with the learning process, but put that effort into an M2A or an M3 and let this cam get the help it needs to succeed. I hate to see such wasted potential :oops:
Phil

When Mobius 1 came out, there was nothing comparable in term of price/quality/dimension.
Even its form was groundbreaking. Back then there was the time to have a long development firmware cycle.
Situation is pretty different right now.
And we have to remember the big issue with M2 is because of its linux firmware and the delay it had caused for the camera to be released.
 
I think the idea of open sourcing the software is a good idea, it can only help at this stage.

I think mobius have something going for them - I like the form factor and the fact that (on the whole) the cameras seem to be reliable.
Only the joovuu is as compact and even the popular A119S seems to have a fair number of issues and faults and I'm not keen on the mounting.

I've looked around and I don't really see a camera that fits what I want, roughly speaking a mobius with the A119S video quality/performance would fit the bill just fine.
 
I've looked around and I don't really see a camera that fits what I want, roughly speaking a mobius with the A119S video quality/performance would fit the bill just fine.

Such cameras do indeed exist but unfortunately virtually all of them are optimized for RC/FPV use rather than dash cam use with the exception of the Shimano which is optimized for cycling and fishing.

Mobius deserves a lot of credit for essentially creating the "Matchbox" format action cam product category. And the heritage for these cameras really dates back to the original 808 key chain FOB cameras in which they were also instrumental.

All it would really take is for one or more of the many current developers/manufacturers who are building these highly specialized cameras to realize that they could open up a significant new market for themselves by basically modifying their firmware for dash cam use (looping & external power/shut-down) and offering a super-capacitor option. To date, Mobius and JooVuu have been the only developers to do this. (currently)

In a way it is quite remarkable to note just how many cameras are now on the market in this form factor. And this doesn't even take into consideration the Innovv C2/C3 and a few others that are no longer available.

Shimano-1.jpg firefly.jpg foxeerL.jpg
foxeer1.jpg runcam2.png
runcam2.jpgoneopaa.jpg ChunYuk.jpg
innovvc3.jpg dimika.jpg
 
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Looks like i have some reading to do, maybe one of those will fit the bill, thanks!
 
Looks like i have some reading to do, maybe one of those will fit the bill, thanks!

The OnePaa X2000 is an intriguing camera in that it is the only FPV camera that specifically offers dash cam capability. The problem is there is no super-capacitor option plus the mount and WiFi features seem poorly implemented.
At least they recognize the possibility for dash cam use but for the most part it seems to be a specialized FPV camera with looping added and it will take a bit more than that to achieve a viable dashboard camera.

http://onepaa.com/x2000-fpv-camera/
 
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@Dashmellow - Once again your vast knowledge and willingness in sharing it are priceless to the rest of us :D Should we ever meet, your preferred drink is on me ;) I wasn't aware of most of these cams existence, and their taking up of the Mobius form-factor proves that it has great merit and usefulness.

I fear that while Mobius is fumbling around, somebody else will see the opportunity here, grab the ball, and run away with it leaving Mobius far behind :eek: For the average person seeking a dashcam in this form-factor it will not matter who makes it, but for those of us who like the openness to input and thorough development Mobius has displayed in the past that will be a shameful day :(

I may be far down the list of those with deep knowledge here, but I can clearly see what is going on around me and thus know what is possible. Mobius can do better, even if they have to change their approach to do that with this cam. I truly want to be loyal here but with every day that passes showing little sign of real progress happening it's getting harder for me :oops:

Phil
 
but why someone should develop nowadays a Matchbox form factor for dashcam use?
It made sense back then when there was no decent quality and small dimension dashcam dedicated camera.
Now it doesn't make much sense, there are soo many tiny specialized dashcam which fit pretty most of bills (a119/8, Mini series...)
 
This form-factor has much usefulness in side and rear cam applications, in use as an action cam, and for interior recording. Plus for some of us it works as well as anything else for a front cam. My older van has almost no tinting above the A1 line and no 'frit' to help hide a wedge cam which would be far more conspicuous in my case. The little Mobius draws almost no attention and when it does few recognize it as a being cam until that is pointed out to them :D

Having a choice is always good ;)
Phil
 
@Dashmellow - Once again your vast knowledge and willingness in sharing it are priceless to the rest of us :D Should we ever meet, your preferred drink is on me ;) I wasn't aware of most of these cams existence, and their taking up of the Mobius form-factor proves that it has great merit and usefulness.

I fear that while Mobius is fumbling around, somebody else will see the opportunity here, grab the ball, and run away with it leaving Mobius far behind :eek: For the average person seeking a dashcam in this form-factor it will not matter who makes it, but for those of us who like the openness to input and thorough development Mobius has displayed in the past that will be a shameful day :(

I may be far down the list of those with deep knowledge here, but I can clearly see what is going on around me and thus know what is possible. Mobius can do better, even if they have to change their approach to do that with this cam. I truly want to be loyal here but with every day that passes showing little sign of real progress happening it's getting harder for me :oops:

Phil

Thanks for your kind remarks @SawMaster. It would be great to meet you one day, especially over a tasty libation and I do hope it comes to pass sometime.

I pretty much share the same sentiments about Mobius. The original Mobius cam was/is truly lightning in a bottle and this kind of thing could only come from dedicated, talented enthusiast developers who have not been in this for a quick profit and who were willing to put in the time and extraordinary effort into wringing every last bit of performance out of the chosen components. Even now, more than three and a half years after the release of the M0bius in June 2013 they are still adding new lens options and offer full support of the camera, including spare parts. For me the Mobius 1 has been perhaps one of the most useful, practical, interesting, versatile and fun cameras I have ever owned. I have used it in more unexpected ways that I can count, far beyond the excellent very stealthy dash cam that it has proven to be and the reason I bought my first one. It has been a stealthy temporary surveillance camera out on my property, a worthy pocket still and video cam, a voice memo recorder, an action cam, a time lapse camera, a remote lens camera, a fantastic stealth wildlife observation camera and as one of my personal favorites a precisely focusable macro cam for shooting close-up bug videos with kids at the local environmental center. I have absolutely loved watching the power this camera has over kids as an exciting educational tool and motivator both in teaching them to explore the world around us and in introducing them to aspects of computers and videography in ways they were not expecting.

Since the day it was finally released to the public after a long gestation period after it was first announced, the M2 has had a troubled introduction. And the longer this introductory "development" phase continues with the promises of this camera remaining unfulfilled the more troubling it becomes. I am still hanging in there and keeping the faith but I too feel that what seems like a stumble for Mobius could become a fall. Let's hope not. I think I speak for many others who had been anticipating a worthy successor to Mobius 1 who are now finding the Mobius 2 to be anything but. It could be they will have to go back to the drawing board and rework the whole project from scratch...or maybe they will find a way to pull a rabbit out of a hat. Either way, you won't keep a talented bunch of guys like this down for long and I expect great things to come eventually, maybe in the form of a Mobius 3.
 
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As I mentioned to someone else earlier today, there is no point in fighting unwinnable wars. If Mobius can't do what it wants to with this one, maybe they should start on an M3 with an approach they can handle better then just do whatever they can manage with this one. I'm really not a fan of that approach due to experiences I had with a different 'world-beater' new design which was sort of forgotten when new ideas came to the developer's mind. Still, it might be necessary here or it might not- I'm not in a position to know that.

There seems to be plenty of potential here but if it us not used then that doesn't really matter. Wars are lost both when they are unwinnable from the start, as well as when the effort needed to win isn't properly exercised ;) From an outsiders point of view the results are the same either way.

I'm still hanging on and wishing I was able to do more to help create a win because that is well-deserved here :)
Phil
 
I am wondering when the mobius FW guys figure this out, if that knowledge will then be scale-able with stronger hardware in a possible mobius 3, or if they have to start all over again with that.
I can see the good things if you are able to do your own and not having to wait for SDK updates before you might be able to do somethings you want to do.
 
This form-factor has much usefulness in side and rear cam applications, in use as an action cam, and for interior recording. Plus for some of us it works as well as anything else for a front cam. My older van has almost no tinting above the A1 line and no 'frit' to help hide a wedge cam which would be far more conspicuous in my case. The little Mobius draws almost no attention and when it does few recognize it as a being cam until that is pointed out to them :D
Having a choice is always good ;)
Phil
Don't get me wrong ( I have 3 mobius 1+ 1mini) and I did use the mobius as dashcam (now replaced with a A118C). While I travel on rental car, I still use Mobius doubling as action cam + dashcam).
But having said that, this is not the main use for a matchbox camera, thus while It might be useful to have a camera which could be ALSO used as a dashcam,this is not a feature which should be a priority, due to the fact there are excellent (and cheap) dashcamera now.
I don't think there is a market for this, at least worth the effort for developing with those features in mind. They could be added as bonus...you have small form factor + heat dissipation issues as processing power needs grows for improved resolution (60fps, 2.7-4k).
Mobius mini is an example, great camera which cannot be used as a dashcam due to overheating.
A car environment is rather hot compared to a drone or an action camera scenario...
 
I know from previous research that the Runcam 2 has a very good reputation. Unsure what it's like at night though as RC cameras are rarely tested for low light. There's also now the Runcam 3 which is a small cube with an optional small cage casing for GoPro style mounting, and supposed to be an action cam so may be more versatile. Haven't seen any reviews though. It would be nice to see some of the ruggedness of these, translate into dashcam casings though as constant removal and refitting is not the friendliest thing for these cameras.
 
I know from previous research that the Runcam 2 has a very good reputation. Unsure what it's like at night though as RC cameras are rarely tested for low light.

It would be nice to see some of the ruggedness of them, translate into dashcam casings though as constant removal and refitting is not the friendliest thing for these cameras.

Good God! We're back to that now! :rolleyes:

I've installed and removed my Mobius cams so many times over the last three years I couldn't count. These days I do that on a daily basis with one or more Mobi that I've been beta testing and occasionally one or more of the other three in my vehicle and it is simply no big deal. I simply slide them out of their cradles or unscrew them from the tripod mount. And I don't drop them either.

@c4rc4m, I do appreciate the problems you seem to have here but I just don't agree that the fault is with the camera.
 
From the Runcam 3
manual..........."Never use Runcam3 as a dashcam, this may damage the camera battery and create a safety hazard."
 
I'm a professional trucker and I've had 2 mobius cam's (private car and truck) running for 5 days a week, 3 years in a row (battery version) before they failed. And the truck Mobius was installed / deinstalled EVERY SINGLE WORKDAY......

THAT'S A GOOD FIGURE!

Matchbox form factor is the best for many car owners, because of the low frontal visibility. And for me especially since I need to carry it with me in my work bag, and should be as small and lightweight as possible.

I have still 2 mobius and a Joovuu X, and honestly, I don't really needed the JooVuu after all, since the recording quality of the Mobius is still so d@mn very good.... Not bad for a 4 year old technology eh...
 
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