Mini 0806 vs Mobius ActionCam - 4 May 2015

[Nigel]

Perhaps Nigel will chime in here to clarify but I believe what he was talking about is that the highest resolutions possible with the mini 0806 - 2304x1296p @ 30fps and 2560 x 1080 do not translate in those resolutions to most common sized computer monitors and media players at full screen and therefore the image gets re-sampled (down-sampled) when you attempt to view the video. Depending on the re-sampling method and resizing ratio a nice clear high resolution image has the potential to not only not be improved but it can even end up looking rather poor. A crude metaphor might be to imagine trying to squeeze a chessboard down to a smaller size and now some of its squares (pixels) have nowhere to go. You would need a 30 inch monitor capable of displaying 1600p to view 2304x1296p video at pixel for pixel reproduction.

This has got a bit complicated!

If you want the best licence plate readability from the 0806 then it is essential to use the 2560x1080 21:9 resolution since that resolution will place significantly more pixels on the license plate than any of the others; you then need to view it using a method which allows you to see all those pixels, ideally full screen on a monitor of the same resolution. That is actually one of the standard monitor sizes but most people have a 16:9 aspect ratio monitor so to see all the pixels they will need to zoom in unless they have a 4K monitor.

If you set the 0806 at 1920 x 1080 16:9 to match the Mobius resolution then it has a hard time even matching the licence plate readability of an 0801 due to it having a significantly wider angle lens thus less pixels per license plate; how it compares to the Mobius will depend on which lens the Mobius has but the Mobius is likely to win whichever. Switch over to 2560 x 1080 and the 0806 should easily win as long as the WDR doesn't cause issues, the Mobius can't manage such a high resolution.

If you are going to compare two cameras then I think you should use both cameras set to their best settings, and then compare them by examining the results at full resolution. Unfortunately the images we see above from the 0806 have been resized down to just 810 pixels high which is definitely not a fair comparison, as far as the comparison between cameras is concerned you might as well post them at 81 pixels high where you wouldn't even be able to see where the license plates are!

Maybe the problem with the resized images is due to this forum resizing them on upload?

I upload mine elsewhere and then link them in with the "Image" button and the result is full resolution mini 0806 images:

 

[Dashmellow]

This has got a bit complicated!

If you want the best licence plate readability from the 0806 then it is essential to use the 2560x1080 21:9 resolution since that resolution will place significantly more pixels on the license plate than any of the others; you then need to view it using a method which allows you to see all those pixels, ideally full screen on a monitor of the same resolution. That is actually one of the standard monitor sizes but most people have a 16:9 aspect ratio monitor so to see all the pixels they will need to zoom in unless they have a 4K monitor.

If you set the 0806 at 1920 x 1080 16:9 to match the Mobius resolution then it has a hard time even matching the licence plate readability of an 0801 due to it having a significantly wider angle lens thus less pixels per license plate; how it compares to the Mobius will depend on which lens the Mobius has but the Mobius is likely to win whichever. Switch over to 2560 x 1080 and the 0806 should easily win as long as the WDR doesn't cause issues, the Mobius can't manage such a high resolution.

If you are going to compare two cameras then I think you should use both cameras set to their best settings, and then compare them by examining the results at full resolution. Unfortunately the images we see above from the 0806 have been resized down to just 810 pixels high which is definitely not a fair comparison, as far as the comparison between cameras is concerned you might as well post them at 81 pixels high where you wouldn't even be able to see where the license plates are!

Maybe the problem with the resized images is due to this forum resizing them on upload?

I upload mine elsewhere and then link them in with the "Image" button and the result is full resolution mini 0806 images:

You obviously have no understanding of what I am talking about or referring to. I'm not talking about the particular cameras involved here or license plate recognition at all. So it goes.

 

[Dashmellow]

even though your monitor might not support it quite a few of the playback programs that have a screen capture option will still take a full res screenshot so no compression and no detail lost, doesn't aid with video comparisons when compressed but for still screenshots is fine

Not if you want to view the entire image at full resolution on a monitor that doesn't support it.

 

[jokiin]

Not if you want to view the entire image at full resolution on a monitor that doesn't support it.

You can still view the image at full res but will have to scroll, won't be able to view it all at once of course

 

[Dashmellow]

You can still view the image at full res but will have to scroll, won't be able to view it all at once of course

That's not quite exactly what I was referring to in my earlier post. Having spent years working with and in the printing industry doing pre-press and photography and having received training at Agfa-Gevaert this was something that came up often. Unless an image matches the native resolution of an LCD monitor it will get interpolated. As an LCD display consists of a fixed raster, it cannot change resolution to match the signal being displayed and optimal display quality can be reached only when the input matches the native resolution. An image on a monitor where the number of pixels is the same as in the image source and where the pixels are perfectly aligned to the pixels in the source is said to be pixel perfect. So if you try to display a 2560x1080 or 2304x1296 image on say a 1900x1200 monitor it will not fit the number of pixels mathematically and will get interpolated and not be so "pixel perfect". Depending on the particular LCD monitor, graphics card and method of interpolation, results may be better or worse, sometimes much worse.

As Nigel mentions, depending on how you upload images to the internet creates a whole new set of factors. The only real way to evaluate image quality on that level is to upload raw full rez images to a server and then download them to your own computer for analysis.

So when you say that, "You can still view the image at full res but will have to scroll" you are basically correct and for most practical purposes this will be more than adequate but depending on how the particular equipment interpolates the image in terms of which near neighbor pixels get shifted or eliminated there are times when an image can be surprisingly degraded considering the high resolution. Of course, in the high end printing industry this stuff is mission critical and for evaluating dash cams on the internet less so but its good to have a basic understanding of how this works.

 

[jokiin]

yeah understand what you were meaning now, an example of this was highlighted when someone thought using a 4k monitor was suitable for setting focus on the 0806, matching resolution to pixels is the best way but I'd expect for most people not possible for resolutions beyond 1920 x 1080

with new solutions coming that can do native 3840 x 2160 expect I'll be needing a new monitor soon

 

[richcam]

Have been having problems viewing the site again in the evenings (UK time) so apologies for not posting sooner.

I recorded some more comparison video footage between the 0806 and the Mobius and have uploaded a few one minute clips onto Mega should you wish to view them. Each one minute clip is approx 130MB in size. Links are:

Mini 0806 - Clumber Park car park
https://mega.co.nz/#!9Vp2lSZD!-b8mPWa7iNH4nJ9dafTDU5orIJBmHXsgFsZbMypIUQE

Mobius - Clumber Park car park
https://mega.co.nz/#!RBI1AIRS!qSZRCc20lhoxqpKxSR4kvfYdvg-6kjqe6mcfprw9PGU

Mini 0806 - Impatient BMW driver overtaking on chevrons
https://mega.co.nz/#!EQhTlDCR!GdPl3as0XEI6Wknofp-pAzD2U20LvjkfjpD8cwKiyMs

Mobius - Impatient BMW driver overtaking on chevrons
https://mega.co.nz/#!JcZ1zDKJ!3n_ttP3qCffrBeYMzMcRFIu-RHxHHds6Xpfj9xs2AFo

Mini 0806 - BMW held up at roundabout
https://mega.co.nz/#!tIxgyRTC!-i6lZdU1zdTvfFPWwlt8ywROpg4dycOd1lNLu_HT_VA

Mobius - - BMW held up at roundabout
https://mega.co.nz/#!QBBE3TJJ!C1gDDxxswZ0m9-4j1ZOx14-_dELL8F1F7eJVVKUeBeU

Mini 0806 - Tesco van detail at roundabout
https://mega.co.nz/#!cIxgGZqK!HgTyJoIBzEb-B7Ib7wn7tmK3mr1lcZnvfCKoGH3CFtg

Mobius - Tesco van detail at roundabout
https://mega.co.nz/#!AV4nxTqA!lhzkmmapXvVfaPu-6m7xshvc3IOAEeZLFXdnP_Nxv80

Have enclosed a few screen grabs of the above videos for interest, BTW, the 0806 displays the time and date info in the bottom right of the screen whilst the Mobius displays the time and date in the bottom left of the screen:

 

[richcam]

Have noticed one anomaly which normally wouldn't get noticed except for the fact that the 0806 uses GPS for its time and date calibration so should be spot on, whilst the Mobius camera syncs its time and date off the computer, and that is the fact that the time displayed between the two cameras for identical footage can vary by several seconds or minutes. I think this is connected to when the Mobius card was synched.

Am I right in thinking that the MobiusManager app syncs the time and date when the 'Save Config' button is pressed rather than when the config file is first dragged over, and the time discrepancy will be the time taken between ejecting the card from the computer and re-inserting into the Mobius camera. Have been know to leave it lying on the desktop before refitting - oops!

 

[richcam]

OK then, have been recording video footage using both the 0806 with Nigel's firmware improvement versus the Mobius Dashcam and have to say that they are very very similar in terms of video quality, the Mobius is better at recording number-plates of oncoming vehicles which I think is very important, yet the footage seems far darker than the 0806, so potentially more detail is lost in the shadows, yet you can see the faces of the drivers of the oncoming vehicles just as well when you compare the snapshots I've taken from the video footage.

Have included some screengrabs of the video footage so you can compare, if you require the video footage I can upload the video files onto Mega.



Both the 0806 and the Mobius can record to 64GB and 128GB class 10 micro SD cards and I've been testing both cameras with these larger cards without any problems so far.

The Mobius totally outclasses the 0806 when it comes to actual usability, it's mounting options of the Mobius are far superior and the actual design of the mount is much better than the 0806. The Mobius can be ejected from the windscreen mount with little effort whilst the 0806 sits stubbornly in it's mount when new almost to the point where you think it is jammed in.

The Mobius comes with a battery lasting well over one hour so can be used outside of the car, perhaps on a helmet mount for a bicycle, it's just so versatile.

When the Mobius is used as a dash cam it's actual footprint area when viewed head-on is so small compared to the 0806 which is in itself very tiny compared to other dash cams that it totally blends in with the rear view mirror.

The 0806 does offer twin SD card slots but the advantage is nullified when you consider that it doesn't actually allow recording of 2 x 128GB cards unless in a continuous record, so for example if you pull up and stop the car it will stop recording and shut down, then when the card in slot B is full it will overwrite it, instead of recording new footage on to the card in slot A. Makes the 2nd card slot pointless.

The 0806 does have a tiny LCD video screen which is great for initial set-up, but after that is not required so gains little advantage on the Mobius.

The 0806 does have GPS which is actually very useful, it allows the time and date to auto set (though you do need to set the time difference for BST) and it also allows speed to be displayed in MPH or KPH which is good.

The major question to be asked is which is the better camera to buy and that is a tough one to answer because both the 0806 and Mobius offer excellent video quality which far surpasses many more expensive and far larger dash cameras on the market today.

Bottom line after having used and compared both the 0806 and Mobius for several weeks now is that I personally favour the Mobius because it's extremely well made, has a better track record in terms of reliability, and it's just more practical in terms of usage and the mount is far better when switching between cars.

And crucially, the Mobius is substantially cheaper than the 0806.

In terms of where to buy from, I purchased my Mobius direct from the manufacturers ebay page and it was delivered direct from Hong Kong to my home in 7 days.

 

[jokiin]

The Mobius punches well above its weight

 

[richcam]

Since the last update I've downloaded and installed the latest firmware for the Mobius which is v2.37, this update seems to have improved the video quality in overcast situations and the recorded video footage is far less dark than before.

Having compared video between the 0806 and the Mobius I still think the 0806 is a little sharper and the images in the shadows are more visible, the image quality of the Mobius seems to be a little softer, however this may be down to the focus of the Mobius lens which may well need a small amount of adjustment which at least is possible to do. Please note I have been adjusting the focus to find its sweet spot.

Where the Mobius totally outclasses the 0806 is it's ability to record far sharper and less blurred number-plates of approaching vehicles even though the overall image quality seems to be softer.

The video quality and sharpness of the 0806 at low speeds and stationary is in my opinion slightly better than the Mobius, but at speed the Mobius is definitely better.

One thing the 0806 has is the GPS mount which provides accurate speed and time/date info but that's about it.

The twin SD card advantage of the 0806 is rendered null and void because the it doesn't currently have the ability to record to the 2nd card unless set to continuous record, as in no breaks or shutdowns, so to most users is pointless. I expected the 0806 to record to the 1st card till full, then record to the 2nd card till full, then overwrite the earliest video on the 1st card - this simply doesn't happen with the current firmware so don't waste your money if you are expecting this to happen.

Once again, the deciding factor may well be that the Mobius costs £56 with the windscreen mount and cables, etc, which is considerably less than the 0806 costing £110, and it is certainly proving itself to be far more reliable judging by the posts made on here and from my own experiences.

 

[Prog]

Thanks for the comparison. I'm looking at either getting a second 0806 or a Mobius for the rear of my car so this has been very useful.

 

[richcam]

Thanks for the comparison. I'm looking at either getting a second 0806 or a Mobius for the rear of my car so this has been very useful.

No worries, am pleased that the info was of use to you. Both are astonishingly good cameras in terms of video quality.

The next question will of course be who to buy from? - I'm based in the UK.

I purchased the Mobius direct from the manufacturer via their ebay shop and believe it was shipped from Hong Kong. It took 7 days to arrive which was mighty impressive. Just remember this is an action cam so you will need to order the windscreen mount, 3mtr power cable, plus the USB/cigarette adapter. They also sell the super capacitor but don't list it on the website so you will need to contact them.
Ebay seller page is: http://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/eletoponline365/m.html?_nkw=&_armrs=1&_ipg=&_from=

I purchased the 0806 from Combi who are based in Leicestershire, they have a proper landline to contact them on to order or if you have a problem, I spoke to Lee before placing my order who was certainly very knowledgeable about the 0806, and replaced the first unit very quickly when it malfunctioned, they also sell the 0801 and 0805 dash cams as well as a load of accessories including additional mounts, hard-wire kits, SD cards and the magnetic Circular Polarizing Lens Filter for use with the 0806, etc. so well worth a visit.
Website link is http://www.combi.org.uk/categories/6/Mini-0801-DVR

 

[Prog]

I bought my 0806 from an eBay seller that was recommended on the Mini section of the forum. I'd definitely buy from him again as the deal is unbeatable and includes the hardwire kit and a memory card.

I'm still looking at Mobius prices but they seem to be about the same as the 0806 once all the gubbins are added.

 

[richcam]

The Mobius prices may be cheaper than the 0806 when purchased direct from the manufacturer in China who is selling on ebay. The manufacturer has an excellent reputation so wouldn't hesitate to recommend them.

I have to say I was very impressed with the low light performance of the 0806 which totally outclassed the Mobius when the gamma levels were lifted in VLC. What I found was that the 0806 video footage contained far more useable information in the clips than could normally be seen.

 

[richcam]

Thought I would post an update on here for any visitors considering purchasing either the 0806 or the Mobius because both of these cameras have worked flawlessly to date.

The Mobius is using the latest firmware which is v2.37 using the lens A which I thought would be better for reading number-plates of cars and it does that job supremely well.

The 0806 is the 2nd generation and is running the firmware developed by Nigel which has improved the video quality quite substantially.

Most of my driving is in the daytime so I can't really comment on the night-time video qualities of either camera, though will say the 0806 seems to provide much better detail in shadows.

Despite my best efforts to tweak the Mobius it still can't quite manage the sharpness of the 0806 in normal daylight conditions, though in it's defence, the Mobius manages to record number-plates of oncoming cars at higher speeds whilst the 0806 tends to blur them.

In terms of ease of use, the 0806 is almost fit and forget, you just put the card in, plug it in and you're sorted. There is a small LCD screen on the back of the unit which you can use to adjust the position easily and adjust the settings, but once you have done this a few times you really do forget it is there. The footprint is extremely small compared to other dashcams so it can hardly be seen from outside.

The Mobius needs to be initially set-up for use as a dash cam using the MobiusManager app which can be downloaded and ought to say a little bit more work is involved, if you're new to this then take a look at the Mobius forum on here which provides all the info you will ever need. There is no rear LCD screen so it is best guess, but just so long as it is pointing straight ahead and a little bit downwards towards the bonnet instead of skywards to the moon you should be fine. Because of the design of the mounting system it does tend to stand out more when stuck to the windscreen than the 0806, but note that many users on here have designed far more subtle designs, plus the lens can be detached and fixed with a little bit of ingenuity.

You will need to format any cards before they can be used reliably, cards up to and including 32GB can be formatted using the camera software, if you plan on using 64GB or 128GB or larger then you will need to use external software to format FAT32, or if you have a Mac desktop or laptop use the 'Disk Utility' app to format FAT32 which is shown as MS-DOS (FAT) from the format options.

I still think the 0806 is fractionally better in terms of video sharpness and quality of detail in the shadows, now if only Nigel could fix the blurring effect of number-plates of oncoming cars at higher speeds it would be perfect

These two cameras really do embarrass some of the far more expensive and better advertised dash cameras on the market because the quality of the videos they produce is just so good. Am well chuffed with the performance of both the 0806 and the Mobius which have recorded almost seven days a week since my last post on this thread without any problems whatsoever.

Have enclosed a few snapshots comparing both the 0806 and the Mobius so you can make your own minds up, the quality may be a little degraded because of the jpg format used for the snapshots, but at least give you a like-for-like comparison. NOTE: The Mobius shows the time and date info in the bottom left of the pics whilst the 0806 shows the time and date info in the bottom right of the pic.

 

[Dashmellow]

Good post! Owning both cameras as well I hope you don't mind my adding a few thoughts.

In the examples above, I believe if the Mobius were tilted down to include the same amount of sky in the image as the 0806 it would open up the shadow details and better match the good exposure performance we see in the 0806 images. You can see the Mobius is attempting to more properly expose the sky whereas the 0806 is exposing more for the cars and road surroundings. (Of course, the frame is a different format with the 0806 apparently set to "Cinema mode", so there would be much more dashboard in the FOV after tilting.)

As for aiming the Mobius to match the 0806 sky coverage, I'm always rather particular about such things so I use the supplied AV cable and a small battery powered 7 inch LCD TV which has RCA inputs. Since my Mobi run on capacitors I use a battery bank to run the cameras during aiming.

 

[richcam]

Good post! Owning both cameras as well I hope you don't mind my adding a few thoughts.

In the examples above, I believe if the Mobius were tilted down to include the same amount of sky in the image as the 0806 it would open up the shadow details and better match the good exposure performance we see in the 0806 images. You can see the Mobius is attempting to more properly expose the sky whereas the 0806 is exposing more for the cars and road surroundings. (Of course, the frame is a different format with the 0806 apparently set to "Cinema mode", so there would be much more dashboard in the FOV after tilting.)

As for aiming the Mobius to match the 0806 sky coverage, I'm always rather particular about such things so I use the supplied AV cable and a small battery powered 7 inch LCD TV which has RCA inputs. Since my Mobi run on capacitors I use a battery bank to run the cameras during aiming.

Cheers Dashmellow, and yes I totally agree with what you have said about the Mobius should be pointing down a little more, the thing is that I use the Mobius in more than one car and the windscreen rake is different on all of them so the inevitable happens occasionally when moving it between vehicles, and with not having an LCD screen to line it up, it tends to be best guess. I tend to be rushing around in the morning so don't have much time for perfect alignment!

BTW, is a good tip about using the small LCD TV with RCA inputs, will have a look to see what Amazon and Maplin have on offer.

Incidentally I was going to upload a few more comparison photographs last night but unfortunately the forum software or server hung after uploading just two or three pics so I gave up, it's not like the jpg files are particularly large so they shouldn't have caused a problem, perhaps the webmaster might investigate what is going on because this isn't the first time this has happened.

 

[Nigel]

...the Mobius should be pointing down a little more...

While that would help a bit, it will only be a bit. The 0806 does use WDR to bring out the detail in the shadows which is what causes the extra blurring of plates at speed, there is a compromise to be made and the 0806 is set up to be a dashcam so in general will do a better job when used as a dashcam. Also the 0806 calculates the exposure based on the area covered by the road and ignores the sky, happy to let it be over exposed, while the Mobius will try to include the sky, again the 0806 is better configured for use as a dashcam than the Mobius.

Good post anyway, they both do a good job, and which one is best will depend on the situation and conditions.

 

[richcam]

While that would help a bit, it will only be a bit. The 0806 does use WDR to bring out the detail in the shadows which is what causes the extra blurring of plates at speed, there is a compromise to be made and the 0806 is set up to be a dashcam so in general will do a better job when used as a dashcam. Also the 0806 calculates the exposure based on the area covered by the road and ignores the sky, happy to let it be over exposed, while the Mobius will try to include the sky, again the 0806 is better configured for use as a dashcam than the Mobius.

Good post anyway, they both do a good job, and which one is best will depend on the situation and conditions.

Nigel, when I compare the snapshots of the 0806 and the Mobius I note that your firmware update has made one hell of an improvement in terms of sharpness and detail in the shadows compared to the standard firmware. As a bonus, when I compared the current video footage of the 0806 to the Mobius I noticed that not only was it a little sharper but also the depth of field was noticeably better.

I've no wish to knock the Mobius because the video quality is still far better than dash cams costing hundreds of pounds more, but using the A lens it is still not quite as good, and realistically I'm keen for it to match the 0806 just so to keep everyone on their toes

I replied to another user on here and was comparing bit rates of video footage recorded using your firmware, and noticed that the bit rate on the 0806 is considerably higher than that of the Mobius, as are the file sizes, but I'm not too bothered about larger file sizes, am very interested in improving the quality of the recorded video footage.

So to anyone interested in comparisons and number-crunching I compared the video footage of both cameras recorded in the last few days and the results are shown below:

Mini 0806 MK2 using Nigel's firmware: 3 minute video: Bit rate: 24,116, File size: 545.5 MB
Mobius using v2.37 firmware: 3 minute video: Video data rate HIGH, Bit rate: 18,204, File size: 415.4 MB