Mobius Maxi F1.5 2.7k

Dashmellow

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I agree about the graininess. Upping the EV value seems to crank the gain too much.
 
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TonyM

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And so how does the change in EV setting affect the daytime imagery?
I was looking primarily at night time exposure. Do these cameras use exposure tables such that adjustments can be made to a range of brightness levels?

Anyway, since you asked, I did record daytime at EV+1 which is over-exposed as you can see:


Personally I'm happy with the current night time exposure, but some users have commented that it could, or should, be brighter. So I decided a short test could show whether there is potential for improvement. I tend to agree that there is too much noise when the EV is increased at night.
 
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Dashmellow

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I was looking primarily at night time exposure. Do these cameras use exposure tables such that adjustments can be made to a range of brightness levels?

Anyway, since you asked, I did record daytime at EV+1 which is over-exposed as you can see:


Personally I'm happy with the current night time exposure, but some users have commented that it could, or should, be brighter. So I decided a short test could show whether there is potential for improvement. I tend to agree that there is too much noise when the EV is increased at night.
Thanks for posting the daytime video! Well, the results are just what I suspected. In all likelihood the image would be acutely blown out on a bright sunny day with the EV set to +1.

One of my primary complaints about the Maxi is that the image adjustments (sharpness, contrast, exposure, etc.) are in increments that are far too severe and therefore utterly useless. For example, on the Maxi, a one click increase in sharpness is way too much and is enough to literally ruin the image quality with over-sharpening. The same is seen here with the EV values where EV +1 is too far too much during the day and at night is enough to cause significant noise due to too much gain.

One of the hallmarks of the Mobius 1 compared to any other action or dash camera on the market is the remarkably fine grained and extensive adjustments the user can use to tweak the image. With the use of these settings I regularly achieve daytime results from my Mobius 1 cameras that far exceeds the image quality of anything I've been able to evoke from the Maxi even with its superior dynamic range and exposure capabilities and even its higher resolutions. As with the Mobius 2, this aspect of the Maxi feels like a step backwards; a dropped ball, if you will. What's the point of a "new and improved" successor to the Mobius 1 if you lose the primary features that made the camera such a unique success in the first place?

I've been patiently waiting for a new firmware version in the hopes of seeing the return of some of the Mobius 1's basic feature set with the Advanced Image Settings the primary area of interest. Instead we got WiFi which for some of us may be highly desirable but for some of us a relatively low priority feature.
 

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I've been patiently waiting for a new firmware version in the hopes of seeing the return of some of the Mobius 1's basic feature set with the Advanced Image Settings the primary area of interest. Instead we got WiFi which for some of us may be highly desirable but for some of us a relatively low priority feature.
think they'd be doing everything you could want and more if they stuck with the Novatek platform, not sure what their incentive was in changing but I think they've made the wrong decision again unfortunately
 

Dashmellow

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think they'd be doing everything you could want and more if they stuck with the Novatek platform, not sure what their incentive was in changing but I think they've made the wrong decision again unfortunately
You bring up a good point as I've been wondering if the lack of fine increments of adjustment is processor dependent. I've been hoping that Mobius might at least be able to come up with something more useful than what we've got with the Maxi as it stands now as it makes the camera quite useless in many instances. For example, when I've experimented using the Maxi as a side facing camera shooting through tinted glass like I do with the Mobius 1 I am limited to six levels of exposure adjustment plus or minus compared with the 128 steps of exposure adjustment plus or minus on the Mobius 1. The result is a rough compromise with the Maxi compared with the precise exposure compensation for the tinted glass I can achieve with the Mobius 1.

With the Novatek DSP in the Mobius 1 we are provided with the full 8 bit range of adjustments (256 levels) all across the board with sharpness, exposure, contrast and saturation along with the full 8 bits of R-G-B control. In many ways, at least for me, this is the KEY feature that makes the Mobius such an amazing little camera. It is literally a photographic tool. I could never have achieved such exciting and unique results with my 2.8 - 12mm Infra-Red varifocal or such tack sharp images with such carefully tuned-in contrast, saturation or exposure as I have with the 6-22mm varifocal. It's been the same with every other project or dash cam footage from the M1. While the Maxi has a lot going for it with excellent dynamic range, good suppression of motion blur and other merits I find it kind of underwhelming. It's not that it's a bad camera but I find it hard to get really excited by the Maxi.

Still, the Maxi seems like it has a lot of potential. Let's hope it gets there.
 

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there's no knowing what they have planned, what's possible, or what limitations they may have to deal with, what I do know is that what they had in place in the Mobius 1 would have been very easy to port to the 96660 or 96663 chipset, not sure why they didn't go that way but there must be some reason behind their decisions to go elsewhere
 

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Somewhere in these pages I once speculated that maybe the Mobius 1 might turn out to be true a "lightning-in-a-bottle" product, the likes of which we may never really see achieved again. That was during the darker days of the M2 when I reached the conclusion that the camera was a lost cause. Certain stalwart "insiders" like @Isoprop offered protests to the contrary but history has validated my assertion.

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/original-mobius-night-recording-with-4mm-f1-2-lens.31145/post-368637

lost_causeM2.jpg


The Maxi is an interesting follow-up to the M2. It is much closer in spirit to the Mobius 1 and has many interesting features and from what I can see, it really does have much potential. The issue for me is that the imaging quality, although decent and serviceable falls flat in some ways. After spending a frustrating and discouraging 10 months testing the M2 and then waiting all this time I was hoping to have a "Maxi" sort of experience with the new Maxi but my reaction has been kind of "meh". I mean, aside from the postives I see in the Mobius Maxi we have a camera that produces 1080p footage that can't hold even a candle to the acuity produced by the Mobius 1, or any other 1080p camera! How is it that we have a brand new, state of the art Mobius camera that has such crappy 1080p performance?

I know, I know, if you crank it up to 2.7K you'll achieve better image quality, but as I've tried to explain so many times here on DCT, as someone who has experienced this first hand, many, many parties you may have to hand off 2.7K footage to, such as law enforcement, prosecutors, attorneys, courts of law, insurance company personnel and other random bureaucrats often have to rely on older computers and older software that won't properly play 2.7K video. Many of these folks wouldn't even know what you are talking about if you mention the term "2.7K"! I have leaned the hard way that it is vital that you hand off video (including and especially the all important raw footage you may be required to supply as evidence) that is as absolutely easy and idiot proof for anyone in the evidentiary chain of custody to view. You often won't get a second chance if they can't. If say, an insurance adjuster runs into too much trouble attempting to view your 2.7K footage, they'll move on to the next case. For this reason, I have become a strong advocate for the requirement that a good dash cam needs to be able to record high quality native 1080p footage. And the Maxi falls short on that score. My practice nowadays is to record 1080 dash cam footage and nothing else unless it is an ancillary camera in support of a main camera.


As for porting the Mobius firmware to the 96660 or 96663 chipset, that sounds brilliant @jokiin and I would love to see it happen!
 
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Dashmellow

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doable if they ever go back to the Novatek platform
I assume that the Mobius guys must also have known this to be doable all along but chose to bang a different drum.

Well, I for one would like to see a new camera introduced based on porting the original to a more up-to-date Novatek chipset. It would hopefully be like what the M2 should have been, a true next gen M1 instead of whatever it turned out to be. A new Novatek Mobius could be called the M1 - Mark II.
 

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I'm sure they know full well what was possible but decided for whatever reason to go in a different direction, their choice I guess
 
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TonyM

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Is there a Novatek 4K platform available that could offer 4K for the RC modellers, and high quality 1080p60 for dashcam use?
 

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Yes the NTK96683 used by the SJ8 plus for instance.
 

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Is there a Novatek 4K platform available that could offer 4K for the RC modellers, and high quality 1080p60 for dashcam use?
yes

As I recall, that one gets pretty hot doesn't it?
all 4k chipsets currently do, for RC use that's probably less of an issue though, they could use the same chipset and different sensors and offer a version targeted at the RC crowd with 4K, and a dashcam version at a lower res, the 4K capable chips run hot at 4k but run quite happily at other resolutions 4 x 1080p30, 2 x 1080p60, 1 x 1080p120, guess you'll see more of this type of thing over the next year or two regardless even if Mobius don't go that way
 

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I do not know, seem like SJ have dropped me like i was hot :) and solely gone the the reviewers with free samples.
I have however just gotten the refund for the SJ8 pro i ordered and which worked for 2 minutes while i browsed the menus, so no torture testing my new computer with 4K/60 footage.
And now there is no shopping for me before April / May next year,,,, though i am sure something will probably sneak in again and ruin those plans.

Some Danish SOB won +200 Mill DKKr in the lottery Friday, but it wasent me or my friend that i am sure would kick back a little to me if he won like that.
 
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TonyM

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the 4K capable chips run hot at 4k but run quite happily at other resolutions 4 x 1080p30, 2 x 1080p60, 1 x 1080p120, guess you'll see more of this type of thing over the next year or two regardless even if Mobius don't go that way
The Gitup F1 manages to run 4k30 or 1080p30/60/120 without getting particularly hot, even using modified FW at 100Mbps. It has an Ambarella chip.
 

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It has an Ambarella chip.
ok for single channel use, they suck at dual channel, plenty of other issues with Ambarella also that make it a non starter for us, may have been a better option for Mobius Maxi than their current choice but they would struggle to get any kind of support from Ambarella at the level they would need
 

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Just found out that my Maxi has spent the last week recording the inside of a lens cap!
Way to go man...and a whole week too?!! Jeez, what a bloody dough-head!! :bucktooth:

Actually, truth be told, it's happened to me too, more times than I'd really like to admit. The last time was about three weeks ago with my 6-22 mm varifocal and the new Hoya HD polarizer (and lens cap) I've fitted to it. (will post about this sometime soon)

Maybe there's a reason most dash cams don't come with lens caps? :smuggrin:
 
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