Mobius maxi recording chart showing the size files created for each video resolution and frame rate option.

[country_hick]

You can now make a rational choice of what settings to use based on your actual needs.
This chart will allow you to choose the best video quality, longest possible recording time before overwriting older
files, or you can make an informed decision about which compromise to make to lengthen your micro-sd cards life.

I asked the developer if they would provide this chart. They were kind enough to provide this information for all of us.

P.S. Can this thread be made a sticky?

How many Mb/s (Megabits per second) does the maxi use while recording? Here is the official answer.


I am somewhat surprised to see some lower resolutions do not save micro-sd card space compared to using a higher resolution.
Interpolated 4k super fine and extreme fine videos create smaller files than the same settings for genuine 2.7k video do.
720p 50fps in normal, fine, and extreme fine settings creates larger files than the 720p 60fps setting.

If mobius maxi owners will send (corrected) file sizes the chart below can change from theoretical to actual file sizes.
Keep in mind that using 1,000k or 1,024k per mb turns our 32gb sd cards into 28.9gb cards thus apparently incorrect information could be correct.

In the chart below "GB" and "MB" are verified numbers gathered from a file while "gb" and "mb" are calculated thereby creating some errors.
This is an unofficial chart that has rounding errors at a minimum.




The same chart below (probably distorted) is to be used to update file sizes is kept for easier future editing.
MOBIUS MAXI FILE SIZE CHART FOR 3 MINUTE RECORDINGS
Video Size | FPS | Normal | Fine | Super Fine | Extreme Fine
3840 x 2160 | 24 | 914mb | 901mb | 916mb | 1.08 gb
2704 x 1524 | 30 | 780mb | 867mb | 955mb | 1.26GB
1920 x 1440 | 30 | 281mb | 324mb | 369mb | 417mb
1920 x 1080 | 60 | 348mb | 453MB | 562mb | 694mb
1920 x 1080 | 50 | 348mb | 454mb | 564mb | 694mb
1920 x 1080 | 48 | 348mb | 454mb | 564mb | 694mb
1920 x 1080 | 30 | 218mb | 328mb | 434mb | 521mb
1920 x 1080 | 25 | 216mb | 326mb | 441mb | 527mb
1920 x 1080 | 24 | 216mb | 326mb | 434mb | 527mb
1280 x 720 | 120 | 326mb | 434mb | 542mb | 694mb
1280 x 720 | 100 | 324mb | 434mb | 542mb | 692mb
1280 x 720 | 60 | 216mb | 324mb | 324mb | 519mb
1280 x 720 | 50 | 221mb | 328mb | 434mb | 521mb
..848 x 480 | 240 | 324mb | 410mb | 519mb | 605mb

 

[TonyM]

The bitrate values are megabits per second, not megabytes per second.

Since you have the bitrates in the first table, you should be able to work out the file sizes for the second chart?? (Bitrate x duration = file size)

 

[country_hick]

I did an approximation for 3 minute video file sizes for the chart. Somehow the numbers refused to work out perfectly.
Until we get actual file sizes from recorded videos the numbers shown in the 3 minute recording size chart should provide a rough but usable file size guide.
Now the question can come down to do I want more detail or more micro-sd card recording time.
We can choose between the best video quality or gain about 6 times more recording time per micro-sd card write cycle with the lowest possible video quality.
We can now be making other video setting choices at a level of video quality anywhere between the best and worst possible detail as a worthwhile compromise.

The bitrate values are megabits per second, not megabytes per second.
Since you have the bitrates in the first table, you should be able to work out the file sizes for the second chart?? (Bitrate x duration = file size)

I fixed the mbs error.

 

[TonyM]

It was good of Mobius to share this information with you.

Personally I'm sticking with 2704x1524 @ 60Mbps since I like to get the best possible quality from my cameras. I can't record a full day onto my 64GB card, but I have another camera that will do that for me.

 

[Dashmellow]

It was good of Mobius to share this information with you.

Personally I'm sticking with 2704x1524 @ 60Mbps since I like to get the best possible quality from my cameras. I can't record a full day onto my 64GB card, but I have another camera that will do that for me.

2704x1524 @ 60Mbps is all fine and good if you want screen shots but if you ever have a legal matter where you need to submit your raw original footage to insurance companies, law enforcement, attorneys, court officials or any other individual in a bureaucratic position you will likely find yourself out of luck. I can tell you this from personal experience. In today's world, especially in today's economic environment, many, many public officials, police departments and even many insurance companies and law firms are using older computers with older graphics cards and monitors running older legacy software, often operated by people who have only minimal video skills and understandings of such things as high resolution, high bit rate or high frame rate video. If you tell them that your video is 2704x1524 @ 60Mbps, they'll look at you with a blank expression. All they will know is that they are unable to view your footage and that will very likely be the end of your matter as they move on to the next case.

What I have learned from personal experience is that you have to make it as absolutely idiot proof for ANYONE using ANY sort of equipment to immediately view your footage. This means 1080P @30 fps.

The whole 2704x1524 @ 60Mbps concept is basically a myth when it comes to practical use of a dash cam. It's great for action cam footage or FPV but not practical for dash cam footage except for your own use and screen shots. And this is indeed one of the things I don't like about the Mobius Maxi because lower resolution like 1920x 1080 on this camera is really somewhat mediocre compared with other cameras that offer this currently standard resolution and frame rate.

I'd rather have really good 1920x 1080 dash cam footage than 2704x1524 any day that can be handed off with confidence to virtually anyone. And even if the other party can view your video on their older equipment, very often high resolution footage on that sort of equipment will look horrible.

 

[TonyM]

The whole 2704x1524 @ 60Mbps concept is basically a myth when it comes to practical use of a dash cam. It's great for action cam footage or FPV but not practical for dash cam footage except for your own use and screen shots. And this is indeed one of the things I don't like about the Mobius Maxi because lower resolution like 1920x 1080 on this camera is really somewhat mediocre compared with other cameras that offer this currently standard resolution and frame rate.

I'd rather have really good 1920x 1080 dash cam footage than 2704x1524 any day that can be handed off with confidence to virtually anyone. And even if the other party can view your video on their older equipment, very often high resolution footage on that sort of equipment will look horrible.

You make a very good point that I'll admit I had somewhat overlooked. I do have experience of submitting video evidence to insurers and solicitors from earlier this year. Initially they asked for it by email - I could not reduce the file size below 10MB! As it happens I sent them both 1440p30 (A119) and 4k30 (Xiaomi Mijia Mini) footage on a memory stick, which no-one has yet commented that they could not view. The court date is set for December, so perhaps I'll find out more about that then.

I agree that the 1080p output from the Maxi is not so good as some other cameras - it seems to suffer from compression. The early FW I tested was not like that, but the bitrate was higher back then. I think it was reduced to ensure microSD card compatibility. I wonder if the Maxi can record 1920x1080 60fps (or 30fps) in a higher bitrate MJPG format?

 

[tempviewer12]

2704x1524 @ 60Mbps is all fine and good if you want screen shots but if you ever have a legal matter where you need to submit your raw original footage to insurance companies, law enforcement, attorneys, court officials or any other individual in a bureaucratic position you will likely find yourself out of luck. (...)

That's a good point I never considered, but there are some workarounds if you prefer to have the highest quality. For starters, you could re-encode the video into a lower bitrate file using software like VLC player or HandBrake. Alternatively, you could upload a private listing to Youtube to ensure everyone can view it. However with the latter option, I guess insurers won't allow it for security reasons and because they might not consider it "raw footage" anymore? I don't have any personal experience but like you say with technologically challenged people on the other end, it's probably hard to argue your case.

 

[Dashmellow]

That's a good point I never considered, but there are some workarounds if you prefer to have the highest quality. For starters, you could re-encode the video into a lower bitrate file using software like VLC player or HandBrake. Alternatively, you could upload a private listing to Youtube to ensure everyone can view it. However with the latter option, I guess insurers won't allow it for security reasons and because they might not consider it "raw footage" anymore? I don't have any personal experience but like you say with technologically challenged people on the other end, it's probably hard to argue your case.

You make a very good point that I'll admit I had somewhat overlooked. I do have experience of submitting video evidence to insurers and solicitors from earlier this year. Initially they asked for it by email - I could not reduce the file size below 10MB! As it happens I sent them both 1440p30 (A119) and 4k30 (Xiaomi Mijia Mini) footage on a memory stick, which no-one has yet commented that they could not view. The court date is set for December, so perhaps I'll find out more about that then.

Every situation is different regarding who needs to see your video, what their role may be in the matter and what their computer resources may be. Also, it depends on the particular dash cam circumstances.

If you have a simple fender bender and the question of who was at fault is obvious you may well be able to have an insurance adjuster look at your footage on YouTube or you could re-encode your video with something like Handbrake.

On the other hand if you have a more serious matter where there are criminal charges, injuries, fatalities or a major liability lawsuit involving attorneys, judges, prosecutors etc., you will have more stringent requirements. In a courtroom during a trial you can forget about YouTube and in most courts you will have to use whatever equipment they happen to have in the courtroom to present your video to a jury. In my case it was a criminal matter and I learned that the local state police are not permitted to accept any online links to videos. They refuse to even look at any video online. For security reasons and chain of custody reasons one can only submit what they term "digital media" such as DVD or thumb drive that can be scanned for malware before they view it and then archive it. In a law enforcement matter, video you submit is considered "evidence" and thus if you "re-encode" or edit the video it "may" be considered tampering. While you may be able to show some edited version of your video part way through the process at some point you will likely be required to submit the original raw footage for analysis, especially in a contested situation involving defense attorneys or in a civil matter involving possible significant financial damages.

While it is quite possible (increasingly so) that whomever you are required to submit your video to may have the skills and computer equipment to view whatever you provide, the fact is that there is as mentioned a "chain of custody" with evidence whether it is with law enforcement or an insurance company or a law firm and sooner or later as your video gets passed from one party to the next in any bureaucracy it may land on the desk of some key person who will not be able to view it adequately or at all if it exceeds the capabilities of the computer sitting in front of them. Many people would be quite amazed to learn how much older computer equipment and software is still in use out there in the real world.

What I learned from my personal situation is that you just don't know where your footage will end up and the people who will be tasked to deal with your footage really don't care about your personal matter as much as you do. All they want is to deal with their case load and get their job done. The best way to submit footage is to make it as easy for everyone in the chain of custody to do their job with the least amount of hassle. This is why I advocate for the highest possible quality 1080p @30 fps over the latest 2.7K or higher. One solution might be to run two cameras with different resolutions so you get the best of both to work with. A really good detailed screen shot from a high resolution high frame rate video may be of vital importance even if the video itself is impractical.

I've brought this subject up previously here and there and perhaps at some point it will deserve its own thread. One thing I have observed here on DCT as a member for five years is that the vast majority of members have never been in a situation where they have ever actually experienced an event that involved having to submit their video to law enforcement or insurance companies. It's all theoretical and hypothetical.

As the technology improves and dash cams become more popular there is a lot of hype surrounding dash cam marketing, people get all excited about the latest bells and whistles and there is a lot of fantasy and wishful thinking about what dash cams can accomplish in practical terms. And many people here on DCT often see dash cam footage more as a form of entertainment to post on YouTube yet forget or don't really even stop to think that they are collecting "evidence", failing to consider how they will actually have to deal with it if and when they ever need to use it in a genuine legal matter, or what will be required of them when they have to hand it off to another party.

 

[TonyM]

One solution might be to run two cameras with different resolutions so you get the best of both to work with. A really good detailed screen shot from a high resolution high frame rate video may be of vital importance even if the video itself is impractical.

In my case the other party did not stop, so it was vital that I was able to extract the number plate from my video recordings. I then reported the incident to the police, who were able to track her down using the number plate.

For submission to my insurers, the 1440p30 video from my A119 was sufficient to show what happened, even though you can't make out the number plate in that video. Just today my solicitor advised that the other party now claims that they slowed down and swerved to avoid an animal. Well, there's no animals in the videos that I recorded of the incident!

Back to the original subject, I have asked Mobius whether the Maxi is capable of a higher bitrate/quality 1080p output.

 

[Dashmellow]

Back to the original subject, I have asked Mobius whether the Maxi is capable of a higher bitrate/quality 1080p output.

If you stop to think about the questions I've raised, perhaps we've been on the original subject all along. Glad to hear that you've asked Mobius whether they can boost the bitrate and IQ for 1080p video. Hope they can! The question for me is that if they are already at (up to) 24.1 Mbps for 1920 x 1080 @ 30fps what can they really do to bring the IQ up to where other 1920 x 1080p cameras with lower bit rates already are?

 

[TonyM]

The question for me is that if they are already at (up to) 24.1 Mbps for 1920 x 1080 @ 30fps what can they really do to bring the IQ up to where other 1920 x 1080p cameras with lower bit rates already are?

I don't know anything about how the DSP works or the compression algorithms used in the Maxi. Perhaps it is not as efficient as other cameras?

 

[country_hick]

It was good of Mobius to share this information with you.

Personally I'm sticking with 2704x1524 @ 60Mbps since I like to get the best possible quality from my cameras. I can't record a full day onto my 64GB card, but I have another camera that will do that for me.

I appreciate eleptonline sending me the recording file size chart. I told Mandy I would post it on this site after I received it. Anyone who is interested in a mobius maxi can see the file size choices that are available. This knowledge can save a lot of trial and error testing.

If my math is correct then the warrantee is for 4000 write cycles (for all card sizes). A few years ago TLC was only giving 1000, and most of the competitors are still only giving 1000 write cycles warrantee on their "high endurance" cards.

(If I did the math correctly) My 32gb micro-sd card should record about 69 minutes (1.1 hours) at 2.7k extreme fine or 6 hours and 36 minutes (6.6 hours) of video at 1080p 30fps normal setting. Now I know why I lost some footage after I got home. I must have been on the road to long and overwrote that file. At the highest setting I would possibly overwrite the micro sd-card every day I go to town (about a 1 hour round trip). If I drove 6 times a week for 52 weeks that would place about 271 write cycles a year on the micro-sd card. By comparison the lower setting would have used about 47 write cycles.

Assuming Nigel is correct that somewhere around 1,000 write cycles is the average life expectancy of a micro-sd card that means the maxi (to ensure reliability) would need a replacement 32gb card at least every 3.7 years when used at the highest bitrate with an hour daily drive 6 times a week but the same 32gb micro-sd card would be expected to last for 21 years at the lowest 1080 30fps "normal" setting under the same conditions.

The question in my mind is does a larger file size result in more detail, more information, and better protection in case of an accident or does a lower bitrate with adequate video quality preserve the cameras electronics as it runs cooler while also lengthening the micro-sd cards service life? Does a dashcam better protect us by making successful video captures more likely because the micro-sd card is not worn out? Does the camera by using less intensive processing run cooler and thereby increase its longevity and reliability? Should we have 2 cams one for detail at the highest possible resolution and one at the lowest setting?

 

[Deleted member 37895]

You can now make a rational choice of what settings to use based on your actual needs.
This chart will allow you to choose the best video quality, longest possible recording time before overwriting older
files, or you can make an informed decision about which compromise to make to lengthen your micro-sd cards life.

I asked the developer if they would provide this chart. They were kind enough to provide this information for all of us.

P.S. Can this thread be made a sticky?

How many Mb/s (Megabits per second) does the maxi use while recording? Here is the official answer.
View attachment 41882

Thanks for the bitrates. It's a shame they got rid of the lower framerate settings. I run my Mobius side cams at 5fps and a 128GB card lasts 2-3 weeks