Mobius Rear-View Mirror Project

freewheeler

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Hi all, I'm intending to use a mobius camera as a rear-view mirror in my camper van, as you can't see out the back. I've been doing a bit of research, but thought I'd just run it by people here in case someone can see a flaw in my plan. I've been using a cheap reversing camera above the reg plate feeding a 7" monitor on the dashboard for a while, so I'm part of the way there, but that's too low, too wide angle and the camera is on the blink anyway (possibly fried by the battery putting out a good 14V or more). The AV cable with integral "12V" supply runs to the back from the fusebox under the dash, since the auxilliary (lighter) socket is always on, not ignition-controlled. I've bought a variable voltage regulator, which I'd mount at the back and tweak for the correct voltage for the mobius and wire that to the USB bit of the AV cable bundle.

The plan is to drill a suitable-sized hole in the back door outer skin (1/2" - 1" diameter should do), fairly high up, and cut a section out of the inner skin opposite it, then fit some plain glass or polycarbonate over the hole for the mobius to look through, mounted to the inner. Weird, I know, but I've considered a lot of other options and this seems pretty good. It keeps the camera out of the weather and harm's way, gives me a couple of options for angle of view, acts as security in case of a rear shunt or something, and means I've got a great action cam to use in other circumstances as well.

I think the narrowest setting on the standard lens would probably suit me. The wing mirrors can cover the wider angle, and I'd rather see what's coming from a fair distance on the motorway (the van makes too much racket to go much above 50). If I find that too narrow I can put it on 1080p. I've been reading a thread on how it performs in the dark, and that seems fine. Not as brilliant as full IR night-vision, but it looks like some firmware options will do, and I don't mind if the view is on the grainy side.

There's still quite a lot of things I'm not sure about:

Am I right in thinking none of the keyring cams would work for what I need? - it needs to auto-start with power and have video out while powered (although not necessarily recording). What else would I be losing? I'd be gaining about £20!

One site says about the mobius "Two user selectable video modes, toggled by the mode button after power up." - does it retain the last used setting? I probably want to set it to the narrower-angle (720p-60fps?) and have it power up like that.

Am I right in thinking that this 720p setting, using the central portion of the sensor, also makes it the narrower view on the AV out, not just the recording?

Do you think it's suitable for this, particularly for night vision? It doesn't have to be excessively amplified. Anything brighter than the actual real-life view is a benefit (I think a higher gain would also reduce the contrast between car headlights and background, so probably better than the glare of a real mirror).

Does the display ratio (4:3 - 16:9) affect the angle of view or just stretch it on the monitor? If it changes the AOV, this gives me another option to play with to get the best view.

I guess I need to replace the battery with a supercapacitor. I understand the capacitor loses clock settings after a day or so. Does it also lose configuration settings? This isn't critical, as I could take it out when we unpack. I'm thinking of using it as a helmet cam at times, so I'd want it on battery power then, so I guess it's best to swap to battery while we're at home and keep it charged now and then, while the capacitor can be discharged and stored. Does it just replace the battery, and do they just plug in?

Mainly wanted to share the idea and see what people thought, but any help gratefully received, especially heads up on any stoopid mistakes I'm about to make.

It looks to me like joovuu will work out the cheapest for the A-lens camera, AV cables and capacitor, at least to get them in reasonable time and not have to worry about import duty, but if I've missed a bargain somewhere, please let me know. It wouldn't matter if I went for something with lower recording quality - it's the features that are more important for this project. Great forum, btw.

Cheers, freewheeler.
 
better to buy yourself a proper reverse camera but get a better quality one (not an eBay cheapy) the Mobius is only going to output low resolution over the AV out, the output is not reversed like it is with a proper reverse camera also so a quick glance at something that looks to be coming from one direction is actually coming from the other direction, by all means buy a Mobius, but use it for what it's meant for, wrong product for this job
 
What is the res of the AV feed then? My 7" monitor is only 480 x 234 pixels. I wouldn't have thought I'd need much more. Good point about the mirror image problem. The mobius has a 180 degree rotation feature - does that work live to the AV? If so, my monitor flips vertically, and the combo will make it a mirror flip. Thanks for your reply. I'd rather not run to the expense of a "proper reverse camera" if I can help it, and then there's the problem that they're fixed on the outside where people can get at them. And I'd need to buy a mobius as well.

Edited to add - just thought, it doesn't need to output 180 rotated, I could mount it upside down.
 
You'll only get 480 lines out of the AV, regardless you only have half that so anything you use isn't going to be great as your monitor is the limiting factor, the Möbius is a great product but its double what you need to spend to get half the result
 
The mobius will also be terrible at night compared to a proper reverse camera.
 
Thanks jokiin. I'm not sure I understand. It outputs 480 lines, and my monitor shows 480 lines. A decent rear-view camera with anything near 80 degree AOV is more than a mobius and only functions for that. Most of them, in fact, are more like 120 degrees. If it outputs 700 TVL, my monitor would still be the limiting factor, wouldn't it? Someone could undo a couple of bolts and rip it off. To have my helmet cam as well, I'd have to fork out about £140 instead of £65. Yeah you can get "reversing cameras" for £30 or less, but they're crap. I've just had one.

Thanks map. I've seen people saying they get good night recordings especially with certain firmware versions - is it the AV in particular you're thinking would be terrible? Does it ouput a different signal from what it records?
 
Thanks map. I've seen people saying they get good night recordings especially with certain firmware versions - is it the AV in particular you're thinking would be terrible? Does it ouput a different signal from what it records?

The night recordings on a mobius are pretty good for a dashcam, but a good reverse camera with ccd sensor should be superior in low light conditions.

If you have extra bright and/or additional reverse lights fitted to your van, the mobius may be adequate for your needs, however I find it lacking when an area is lit by only reverse lights, I haven't tried firmware 0.59 though.

If I owned a campervan, I would have dashcams to record forward and rearward, and a reverse cam for when reversing.
 
Thanks guys I really appreciate these comments.
your monitor is 480 lines wide, 234 high, you'll only see half the vertical res

Aha, I see. So does that mean I could benefit later by getting a better monitor if I wanted, but the mobius would be sending better resolution than my current monitor can display, so I'm not losing anything from the camera end of things. Now you mention it, I wonder if the output resolution changes with the AOV setting, since it uses the central part of the sensor. I really don't understand much of these data - the reversing camera I've got quotes different figures:
Effective pixels: PAL: 628*586 pixels / NTSC: 510*496 pixels
Pixel: 656 * 492 pixels
Resolution: 420 lines
which is pretty odd.

The night recordings on a mobius are pretty good for a dashcam, but a good reverse camera with ccd sensor should be superior in low light conditions.

If you have extra bright and/or additional reverse lights fitted to your van, the mobius may be adequate for your needs, however I find it lacking when an area is lit by only reverse lights, I haven't tried firmware 0.59 though.

If I owned a campervan, I would have dashcams to record forward and rearward, and a reverse cam for when reversing.
Ah yes, I see what you mean, thanks. That's ok, I reckon, as the main reason I want the camera isn't as a reversing camera. It's to replace the rear-view mirror for normal forward driving. I should have explained this bit. It might be ok for reversing (as you say, depending on brightness of view and lighting conditions), but I've got 3 options if it's not much good. I could have a separate reversing cam kick in when reverse gear is engaged (the monitor system I've got already allows that and it's meant to be used that way - it has dual AV input and a trigger wire to connect to the reversing lamps), or I could get brighter reversing lamps, or, since I'm usually with the missus, I could get her to guide me. The reversing cam I've already got might just hold up if it's not on constantly with too much voltage! The reversing cam needs to be wide-angle so you don't miss something to the side, but I want the longer view on normal driving.
 
Heck, I just thought - does it start to output video as well as record when power is supplied?
 
Yes a better monitor would improve your results even with your current camera

The Möbius is a great product, for what you want to do though a good quality reverse camera correctly setup will be cheaper and give better results
 
i use a reverse camera and an av feed from a dashcam to a 7inch monitor with a feed on all the time I am driving...

The av output will be back to front and need rotating every time you start the monitor and once rotated strangely all the writing and info will then be back to front..

A £9 reverse camera is much better for driving with,reversing with, and you certainly don't need any additional rear lighting...

My mirror mounted monitor is my rear view and all this auto dimming is baloney at night as it doesn't dazzle or distract in any manner like a normal mirror does.
 
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i use a reverse camera and an av feed from a dashcam to a 7inch monitor with a feed on all the time I am driving...
Nice one.

The av output will be back to front and need rotating every time you start the monitor and once rotated strangely all the writing and info will then be back to front..
I think mine stays flipped once set, but yes, the OSD is in mirror-writing. I'd do most of the settings adjustment on the computer or, if needs be, with it unflipped and then flip it again.

A £9 reverse camera is much better for driving with,reversing with, and you certainly don't need any additional rear lighting...
I'm darned if I can find one that's a narrow enough angle for my liking for that kind of price, (add a zero), but if you can suggest one I'll take a look. What's yours? All the cheap ones tell you they're about 120 degrees. Mine is a typical licence-plate mounted one and says it's 135 degrees (only a guide, as some mean horizontal and others diagonal). They're ridiculous compared to a normal mirror. Great for reversing, but a car about 100 foot behind you is almost invisible.

My mirror mounted monitor is my rear view and all this auto dimming is baloney at night as it doesn't dazzle or distract in any manner like a normal mirror does.
Yeah, that's right, mirrors are awful for glare at night. That doesn't happen with a monitor. Thanks for your reply petepete.
 
I use this one..

https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/351238522544
says its 170, but that's baloney from side to side unless they mean from top to bottom of the view which I must admit shows the road clearly and whats approaching way behind while being faced down to give a 2 ft distance for

each distance guideline ...

I should mention the av out on dashcams does not give a picture the full size of the screen, you will find it black at the top and the bottom and of very poor quality and not something I would like to rely on as a reversing aid or rear mirror.
 
viewing angle quoted is diagonal

does seem a misleading way to quote it, as a layman like me would assume it means left to right giving a clear indication of the width of view we can expect to see...
 
it's to do with how lens manufacturers provide their specs, same as dashcams, lenses quoted at 160 degree are generally closer to about 130
 
Well, that's that ordered. I'll let you know how I get on. :D
 
OK, well Joovuu messed me about, unfortunately, saying on the website they had stock and then telling me it was on back-order, so I cancelled - in a hurry to get this fitted before the next camping trip!

Then, fortunately, this gave me pause for thought and a bit more research time, and I'm going for the 808#16 instead...which probably puts this thread in the wrong place if it wasn't already.

So I've spent £37 (from Webbex, including £4 first-class delivery) instead of about £71. This price difference is only very slightly misleading, in the sense that the 808 comes with power/AV cables, which I need, whereas the Mobius doesn't, and because if I'd bought the Mobius I would have got the supercapacitor as well, whereas I don't know whether the 808#16 takes one, so for now I'll just have to risk the battery having a shorter life, which presumably won't matter anyway for van use. The Mobius package comes with the camera mount, whereas the #16 doesn't, but I reckon it will be fine on a bit of velcro. Next, out with the drill and the dremel - thank god it's only an LDV Convoy. :D

I haven't solved the helmet cam option yet. I almost got the 120 degree lens at the same time to swap them for this, but decided to check out other options - I'd rather not keep opening the thing and fiddling with ribbon cables.
 
Hello ,everyone,

Today I receive this message from shop owner" Also Emma please tell people the website will be back shortly but we are still experiencing customer service problems and data may have been lost" @JooVuu
 
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