My A129 Troubles and Partial Solution

Ormy

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This post might be a bit long but I just want to be clear about everything as this might be helpful for others.

Preface: I bought an A129 Duo, HK3 hardwire kit (installed myself) and 256GB Sandisk Ultra in June 2019. It came with firmware v1.6 and worked perfectly until March 2020 using the settings below.

My preferred settings:
WDR - ON
Loop recording - 10mins
Parking mode - 3fps timelapse (This gives me enough quality, constant recording but low enough power consumption that it will record for days)
GPS display - All Info
Units - MPH
Correct time & date
Wifi - OFF (whenever I want to view footage or analyse card contents I remove it from the dashcam and put it in a USB card-reader on a windows PC)
All other settings at their default

The Issue: In march 2020 I started hearing random beeps from the cam while I was driving. I checked the SD card on my PC and found the driving files were not all 10min long like they should be, they were random lengths but usually 3 or 4 minutes. Parking mode files were still as normal (a 2min video containing 20mins worth of footage). I turned the screensaver setting up to the max (3min) to see what was happening. I turned the ignition on to put the cam in normal recording mode but left the car parked and watched the screen. A few minutes into recording, the image on the screen (front with rear overlaid) would freeze and the recording timer in the top right would also freeze. However the clock time display at the bottom did not freeze, that kept ticking along. After 20-30 second of being frozen the recording timer would reset to zero, the camera gave a single beep and recording would start again. This would repeat every few minutes. I could live with the beeping but if the dashcam is only recording 80% of the time what's the point? Sod's law dictates any incident when the footage would be useful would occur whilst the cam was frozen and not recording.

Solution 1: Obviously I tried the basics first, factory reset camera to default settings, full format of SD card using SDformatter on my PC, hard reset using the side button. Did not work.

Solution 2: Since the recording usually got to the 2minute mark before freezing I thought reducing the 'loop recording' setting to 2min might fix it. No joy, when set to 2min the recording would usually freeze around 1min40s in. When loop recording was set to 1min it would usually freeze around 55-57s although it would complete the minute normally and start a new recording without freezing 10-20% of the time. Not good enough though.

Solution 3: Tried a spare SD card, a 64GB samsung EVO I use for a different device. Did not work. I used this card to test throughout the troubleshooting process (full format at every step) and not once did it ever produce a different result to my Sandisk Ultra. (EDIT: I have since realised the SD card was the issue, the samsung evo I tried must have had the same issue).

Solution 4: I started searching on the internet, I found the viofo forums and realised my firmware was out of date. I updated to firmware v1.9, repeated the steps in solution 1 and the dashcam seemed to work perfectly again. Coincidentally I did a 6 hour journey the next day and the dashcam functioned perfectly until about 30 min before the end of the journey when it started showing the same symptoms as before. Damn.

Solution 5: I started trying random things, random settings, whatever I could think of. I unplugged the rear camera and that fixed the issue. So straight away I'm assuming there's a loose connection. With the rear camera connected I turned on the ignition so the camera was in normal recording mode and watched the recording timer carefully to see exactly when it froze. At the same time, I tapped the rear camera cable connections at both ends, manipulated the cable at various locations, none of these induced the issue immediately. Might not be the rear camera. Further random testing required.

Solution 6: I checked and double checked all connections to the HK3 kit. I removed the HK3 kit and tested the voltage cut-off function and output voltage, everything as expected. No luck.

Solution 7: On a hunch I changed the 'bitrate' setting to LOW. This fixed the issue, having exactly the same effect as disconnected the rear camera. This clue, together with the fact that the clock time doesn't ever freeze localises the issue to the recording and encoding hardware or firmware. (EDIT: yes it was the recording hardware, the SD card itself)

I continued trying other things for a while but got nothing. So that is my partial solution for now, I just set the bitrate setting to LOW and it works perfectly again. The bitrate (as reported by MPC-HC on windows) has decreased from 16387kb/s to 10240kb/s (for normal files and parking mode files), visually the difference in quality is noticeable but small. It's better than 30 seconds of completely unrecorded driving every 3 minutes.
 
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I have decided that when I buy a new dashcam in 12-24 months (assuming no further issues with the current one) to get 4K recordings I will be going with a Thinkware.

Unless Viofo starts getting its act together, switching away from them will be the best thing you ever did. No dashcam is perfect, but you're likely to have a lot more free time not having to troubleshoot an electronic device that should simply just work.

One nice thing about the current Thinkware generations is that the 12V to internal operating voltage converter is built into the camera itself. In other words, you supply 12V battery and accessory power directly to the power input jack on the dashcam, and the necessary voltage step-down is performed internally. This allows you to set battery voltage cutoff for parking mode at 0.1v increments via the dashcam app on your smartphone.

And in 12-24 months, available dashcam options should be even better...
 
This allows you to set battery voltage cutoff for parking mode at 0.1v increments via the dashcam app on your smartphone.

Thanks for the info. Can this setting also be adjusted on the device itself? I've found smartphone apps for such devices somewhat temperamental on anything that's not Apple or Samsung (I have a OnePlus 5).
 
I know you said that you have tried an alternative card, but a slow memory card is the most likely explanation, they do tend to slow down with age. If you have another available to try then I recommend trying it.

There are a lot of cards available with fast enough write speeds, but when you are writing multiple files simultaneously they often don't do so well. I recommend one with an A1 or A2 application class rating.
 
I know you said that you have tried an alternative card, but a slow memory card is the most likely explanation, they do tend to slow down with age. If you have another available to try then I recommend trying it.

There are a lot of cards available with fast enough write speeds, but when you are writing multiple files simultaneously they often don't do so well. I recommend one with an A1 or A2 application class rating.

I agree that a slower-than-expected SD card write speed is consistent with my issue.

The sandisk ultra I have is A1 class though and it is genuine (been burned by fake cards enough times to know). Are you saying that a significant degradation in write speed within less than a year is normal? Is there a particular card I can buy that will sustain 24/7 high write speeds for at least a year or two?
 
Are you saying that a significant degradation in write speed within less than a year is normal?
Depends on the size of the card and the bitrate used. I guess that card is a 1000 write cycle card, so if you do the maths...

For 2 channels 24/7, yes it may have slowed down by a year of use, or there may be a slow sector on it that comes around once per loop.

I'm not recommending any particular card, but generally the bigger ones go through less write cycles so last longer, a super high write speed is not particularly important, but overall fastness is, so an A1 or A2 is sensible since these cards should provide some buffering to avoid occasional slow responses.
 
There was a user in here, that for reasons unknown had his genuine memory card slow down to like 1:10 of the sped it was supposed to have, as i recall he did get it restored but not in one go.
I actually think i have the same issue with a Samsung card, but so far i have just replaced it, and while i have not looked at the footage on the replacement card i think it have solved the issue.

The zenfox T3 i am testing on too at the moment, well most of the memory cards in my suite of cards it did not like, even fast U3 cards that have 60 - 80 MB/s write speed.
The maker recommend A1 branded cards, which none of the cards in my collection was, but i now have a A1 and a A 2 card,,,,,,, both also struggling in the camera.
 
If you're using Windows (the computer operating system, not the ones installed in your car), then you can easily verify the current write throughput speed and test almost every bit of storage of on sd card in most laptops/notebooks with an sd card slot.

Look into h2testw sd card utility located at:
https://www.heise.de/download/product/h2testw-50539

The utility has been mentioned many times on this forum; the web site address above is the original source so it is less likely to have picked up any nasties on its way to you. The web site is written in German, but the utility itself has a choice for English. Be sure to scan with anti-virus/anti-malware utility anyway.
 
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Thanks for the info. Can this setting also be adjusted on the device itself? I've found smartphone apps for such devices somewhat temperamental on anything that's not Apple or Samsung (I have a OnePlus 5).

That certainly was a most elegant choice of words to convey the idea that most dashcam apps are complete crap. For what it's worth, the Thinkware app is one of the best I've had experience with. You may need to temporarily disable mobile data on your smartphone (or enable airplane mode then switch on WiFi) in order to be able to connect with the dashcam, but that is an issue for many apps. And despite what many say, that's not usually a smartphone caused issue -- it's an app issue. (On modern Androids at least, an app developer can force its own connections to use WiFi even if WiFi is not the default network -- which would usually be mobile data when it's active.)

I cannot speak to all the Thinkware models but since many/most/all? do not have a display screen, using the app is absolutely required for them -- which probably explains why the app is decent. It has to be. For if it too were crap, then Thinkware could not possibly continue selling its displayless dashcam models at a premium price to alternatives -- which it is, and is apparently very successful with. (And Thinkware's parking mode might just be the best available.)

Again though, no dashcam is perfect. I really just want mine to do what it is supposed to do -- record video without me having to constantly tend to it. When you have one that works as it should, you can simply set a calendar reminder for one year into the future reminding you to buy a new sd card to avoid potential degradation issues from that point forward.
 
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On apps, you have to remember that each version of Android and IOS is different, so that there are really not two app designs (one for each) to be made but many, and it is nearly impossible to have an app which works correctly in every function on every platform. Ditto for PC apps. That problem is the fault of the OS owners who refuse to completely standardize on one I/O design for the software they lease to phone, tablet, and PC manufacturers :mad: I have two tablets and a phone which all use Android 4 and all three are different versions so each one gives me different results :eek: and as I'm sure you know, my devices are considered ancient in the digital world so nobody cares to bother with making apps work for me. Their suggestion for me to buy newer or better devices so the apps will work correctly is not something I want or need to do as my devices do everything else I want just fine and I haven't got the funding to replace them just to get my cam apps to function :(

So while some cam manufacturers could do better here, it's not entirely their fault if an app doesn't work properly on your devices, and you certainly cannot expect them to work on the very latest platforms right away, since that means their software development teams have to design a new approach for the new stuff and that takes time ;) And further, it is up to each of us to research our cam choices before buying, which includes any apps we might need to use on those cams which require an app to work. If you don't do your research you are part of the problem too :eek: But even that isn't a sure bet- one cam manufacturer assured me that their app was fully functional on Android 4, and a few people said theirs worked fine which I'm sure they were correct with the versions they had- but my versions were different than theirs and I essentially got screwed anyway regardless of all the efforts made and the precautions taken o_O Luckily I'm happy with the default settings on that cam which I cannot access so I do have a working cam, just one I can't play with to see if I can do something better with it.

Such is life in the dashcam world where today's best technology will be seen a couple or three years from now- maybe.

Phil
 
any app would need to be very basic to still work on Android 4, the app SDK's don't support the functions that most camera apps need for Android versions that old, partly because there's features that weren't possible back then, partly because security updates made changes necessary, hardware that old is often not capable either, not enough processing power, memory, storage etc, natural attrition means that the bulk of your user base doesn't actually have hardware that old so it's a problem that tapers off at some point anyway
 
any app would need to be very basic to still work on Android 4, the app SDK's don't support the functions that most camera apps need for Android versions that old, partly because there's features that weren't possible back then, partly because security updates made changes necessary, hardware that old is often not capable either, not enough processing power, memory, storage etc, natural attrition means that the bulk of your user base doesn't actually have hardware that old so it's a problem that tapers off at some point anyway

You're absolutely correct as far as me and my old stuff goes- I expect this result for these very reasons. But others who have much newer and far more widely used platforms do have issues and those should be addressed, which doesn't always happen :( Not every cam manufacturer puts the same amount of effort into providing the most needed solutions, and some seem to do nearly nothing at all.

This is why researching your cam choices matters but as I've shown it's not 100% guaranteed effective. I'd love to see the burden for the app problems these newer platforms have placed on somebody other than the end-users, but who is at fault and how much fault do they bear? And what can be expected as the end solution? It's not just dashcams being affected but nearly every product which has an app involved :eek: That should tell us something about where these issues originate and thus where they need to be fixed at ;)

Phil
 
@jdct Thanks for the info. I have h2testw but I just use it to verify the stated capacity of new cards when I buy them, I hadn't thought to re-verify write-speed, thanks for the suggestion.

On apps, you have to remember that each version of Android and IOS is different, so that there are really not two app designs (one for each) to be made but many, and it is nearly impossible to have an app which works correctly in every function on every platform. Ditto for PC apps. That problem is the fault of the OS owners who refuse to completely standardize on one I/O design for the software they lease to phone, tablet, and PC manufacturers.

If by 'OS owners' you mean Google (for setting bad precedents and conventions within android) and major smartphone manufacturers (for spinning their own flavor of android with its own quirks every few years) then I completely agree. The android ecosystem is ridiculously fragmented, and on top of that it's like 'backwards compatibility' is a form of perverse debauchment. I don't think PCs are anywhere near that bad (OK starting with win10 they're heading that way). I have win7 x64 and I very rarely find windows software from any windows era going back to win98 that I can't get to work. Only in the last year or so are certain games requiring DirectX12 and therefore windows10, but outside of games everything works great.

Back to the thinkwares; if you can only change settings remotely with a smartphone app, does that mean the cam has to continuously broadcast wifi SSID incase you want to connect, even when parked? Isn't that a colossal waste of power? Is there a hardware switch to turn the wifi (or whatever wireless protocol is used) on and off?
 
Sandisk Ultra is not compatible with the A129 Duo...

Try a Sandisk A2 Extreme, High Endurance, etc. The Ultra has a well known incompatibility issue. Also, make sure you use a Class 10 or higher card. The A2 is a v30 and should be plenty fine. I run in my Viofo without issue.
 
I have two tablets and a phone which all use Android 4

You're lucky anything works at all on those old smartphones with operating system released in 2011. You might as well just find a old Motorola flip phone -- which was the perfect mobile phone factor in my opinion. Planned obsolescence is unfortunate but true. (Oh, and congratulations on being someone who knows how to take care of his stuff and not break things quickly. Smartphones are so easy to drop and they seem designed to explode on impact with a pillow full of goose feathers!)

I tried the Thinkware app on my Android 5.1 'test phone' at first -- and it failed to function. Though it works fine on android 8.1.

Back to the thinkwares; if you can only change settings remotely with a smartphone app, does that mean the cam has to continuously broadcast wifi SSID incase you want to connect, even when parked? Isn't that a colossal waste of power? Is there a hardware switch to turn the wifi (or whatever wireless protocol is used) on and off?

The Thinkware models I have used start up with WiFi off, and a physical button must be pressed in order to turn WiFi on in order to connect with the app. (Thinkware does have a really well implemented parking mode; it is difficult to imagine that they did not consider the potential negative consequences of WiFi operating within an empty car.) Though I have not used all their models; there could possibly be differences in the behavior of different models.
 
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(Oh, and congratulations on being someone who knows how to take care of his stuff and not break things quickly. Smartphones are so easy to drop and they seem designed to explode on impact with a pillow full of goose feathers!)

Well if you knew how many phones I've been through you might withhold the 'grats :cautious: For ages I used the LG 360CF which for me was perfect for my needs which includes durability. I've had maybe 5 of them, replacing as needed with the same thing until they became impossible to find in new or refurbished condition. The rubber button mask on the last one started falling apart about 6 months after I got it simply because of age and with none being any newer I had to do something else :cry: Those were a very robust and durable phone and could be counted on to survive at least 3 falls from a 2 story roof. One survived 5 such drops and bunches of smaller ones. The S4 Mini I have now won't survive even one of those but I like the size and they're very affordable, so that's what I went to unwillingly while kicking and screaming every step of the way :mad:

I'm not a luddite- I just don't need the newest stuff and I know it.

Phil
 
Such is life in the dashcam world where today's best technology will be seen a couple or three years from now- maybe.

I've been thinking more about this. I wish I had the skills for a full DIY solution. I.e. a high quality but compact 4K cctv cam (or two) connected to a rasberry Pi with an SSD hidden under a seat or something? Has anybody done anything like this before?
 
I've been thinking more about this. I wish I had the skills for a full DIY solution. I.e. a high quality but compact 4K cctv cam (or two) connected to a rasberry Pi with an SSD hidden under a seat or something? Has anybody done anything like this before?

Unfortunately you would probably have to abandon any hope of a parking mode function, because you will never be able to match the lower power utilization of the specific task optimized SOC (System On Chip) implementations already built into every dashcam available.

I'm curious about your experiences related to the "60Ah AGM | 20W Solar" part of your signature line.
 
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Unfortunately you would probably have to abandon any hope of a parking mode function, because you will never be able to match the lower power utilization of the specific task optimized SOC (System On Chip) implementations already built into every dashcam available.

Yeah that's a good point. I'd need a colossal battery backup.

I'm curious about your experiences related to the "60Ah AGM | 20W Solar" part of your signature line.

The AGM battery was an upgrade to my original car battery (not in addition to), it worked well, it extended my parking mode recording time by at least 12-24 hours. It's also much happier starting my 1.8Litre petrol engine in the cold (-5 to 0C) when drained to 11.8volts (dashcam voltage cutoff) compared to my previous standard lead acid even though the cold-cranking-amps figure was similar. See this thread I made about it.

The solar panels are also working well, still a work in progress. See this thread.
 
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