Night recording WDR ON, 1080p/30fps, EV +2/3

hi

I've just increase the EV to +1/3 with a119s equiped with the CPL in order to see how it will be working.
My experience is that A119S with the default settings as WDR off, 1080p/60fps, EV 0/0 compared to for example Cowon AW1 brings absolutely nothing in term of quality of reading plates (only the colours/saturation is better). very disappointing for the "new" tech vs. "old" tech.

Could be that the a119s is not optimized or not pumping out the best from the hardware it has, including the FW or default setup?!

completely agree that something has to be worked out, if possible with settings then better.

An interesting point is, even I am not a pro, that I've noticed as you that the a119s has TOO dark footage.

I am comparing for example to Cowon.

You can not see it over the day or in the real night conditions. But you can see the HUGE difference in the tunnels or at the beginning of the evening.

@niko has told me that this kind of comparison is not fair, old vs. new tech etc. and he is right, it's logical, but in my case when it comes to the clearness and possibility to read the licence plates, there is absolutely no difference in quality, whatever the speed is, even if those are completely different specs. Day or Night.

Either I'll be able to read plates on both dashcams or I'll not be able to read them , not at all, on both dashcams, a119s included.

So the a119s video is dark, due to the CPL of course, but without the CPL too, so probably increasing the EV will help...I'm afraid to have more blurry effect with increasing EV but we'll see.

I don't know if 60fps vs 30fps helps, or influence the EV settings.

It seems that @jokiin has done the good FW job with the new 9663 and you can see the impressive clearness of numbers on the plates, even in night condition (but here we are with the double budget).

I hope that @viofo will learn from it.

if someone has ideas what settings to test in order to be able to read plates, it's welcome.

cheers
 
There are no consumer dashcams out there yet that could read number plates at night from moving vehicles where speed difference between cars is over 10(+/-) kmh.

Sent from my GT-I9505
 
should I set to 30P for HDR to really work?
I currently use default 1080/60P and set HDR ON, but I don't see expected HDR result

tnx
 
@IvanhoeYU Ja mislim da bi trebalo da koristis 1080P 30fps za dan i noc a 1080P 60fps iskljucivo danju. Ne znam vazi li to i za A119S.
I think you should use 1080P 30fps for day and night use and 1080P 60fps only during day ( daylight ). I dont know is that also rule for A119S.
 
sorry, I was about WDR

what's diff between W and H? I thought those are the same?
Wide vs High

WDR - Wide Dynamic Range cannot be enabled if HDR - High Dynamic Range is enabled, one or the other since they adjust image very differently.
WDR mainly brightens, HDR prevents over brightening so mainly darkens using contrast.
The test clips of WDR vs HDR on A119 Dashcams is very interesting for night recording. Once A119S gets the HDR Firmware i'll create a video comparison for day & night.
Unfortunately all these useful image quality settings may improve Night or Day but not always both so the owner must toggle them on/off at sunset. Similar issue with Parking Mode must manually enable for best results then disable while driving.
 
should I set to 30P for HDR to really work?
I currently use default 1080/60P and set HDR ON, but I don't see expected HDR result

tnx
WDR at night only makes adjustments when both bright and dark scenes occur at same time, when driving under street lights scene is usually balanced with no adjustments done. If you drive off street into dark alley WDR will adjust, also if you turn off street into bright gas station.
Generally if you increase Frames Per Second at night will result in less motion blur. However there will be blurring and details will be poor due to extreme low light conditions. The WDR at night with 60FPS will help. There is a very simple test (video in progress) anyone can do to verify FPS reduces motion blur and improves text details, change resolution to 1280x720 at 30fps then record night footage, stop and change resolution to 1280x720 at 120fps and record same route, now compare text readability. If FPS at night is useful you should see a huge improvement from 30 to 120fps, if little or no change then low light conditions require more than FPS such as new HDR. Suggest doing this type of testing with F1.6 Lens & CPL Filter off to maximize light gathering. The real key factor for low light image quality is the sensor and I have my doubts about the Sony Sensor IMX291 which is shown as my profile pic. The sensor chip itself seems small.
 
not sure about that Viofo is working on "HDR" for A119S right now?!
they talk only about HDR for A119 if I'm not wrong.
I'll be happy if they do HDR work for A119S and imx291, as exactly the problem we have in night conditions.

BTW the WDR is supported by Sony IMX291 and already in A119S, so they probably suppose that it's enough.

It's not!
maybe for the parking mode, but for driving, it's better to have advantages of what people call "HDR"

Sony doesn't talk any more about WDR, but supports HDR in their new sensors 2016/2017...of course as useful in video surveillance...we'll see it in dashcams when the price drops down...2020...
take a look : http://www.sony-semicon.co.jp/products_en/new_pro/index.html
But as usual marketing guys make great confusion about, so not easy to follow as many times nothing to do with technical and it's different in photography, graphic arts or TV industry.

Concerning Parking mode and up to what Viofo has said, in new FW2.1 things sems to be fixed and it needs the G-sensor activated, so works automatically now.
Not to mix with the motion detection setup, it has to be disabled while driving and up to viofo.
 
and again, we're falling into the marketing trap...

We have been pushed to the "famous sony imx291" on the new 2017 dashcams, the A119Sssss too...and I'm not sure that the "basic" a119 with the OV4689 with the HDR included unperformed vs. sony (means all inlcuded, resolution, fps...if the main goal is to read plates day/night).

but manufacturers have to sell, their suppliers have to sell too, the pricing and market are moving, so not all the time only technical/performance story.
it's more complex and I hope that new FWs will get out the maximum from the actual sony sensor.

ov4689 with HDR
http://www.ovt.com/sensors/OV4689
 
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hi all,

I'm completely lost with those marketing and manufactures terminology about HDR, WDR and etc.
from photography HDR was (is) result of multiple pictures are taken with +/- EV - 5 pics the best and 2 pics as min to combine under and over exposure - that shows details in shadows and remove overexposure clipping (blue skies instead of whites) and so on
when it applies to video than only 2 pics are taken that produces single FRAME
in my book - if sensor can take 60fps than HDR can be only at 30fps, but each pic is taken with 1/60 or less - that 1/60 limits motion blur
in photo it can be 1/15 or larger to accumulate more light, but in video it can't be less then FPS
if fps = 30 than largest can be 1/30; 60fps it limits to 1/60
when we are about car video than motion blur gets more important vs exposure noise - I'm Ok to see "grained" LIC plate vs blur that's unreadable -
so I prefer 1/60 and underexposure with higher ISO just to get important for me details vs unreadable LIC plate with good exposure (S) and low ISO

is there a way to get info about exposure info for every frame? like Shutter Speed, Aperture (I think it's constant 1.6 or 1.8), ISO ?

does A119S imx291 sensor really do HDR? takes 60fps to produce 30fps HDR? or the best takes 120fps to produce 60fps HDR?

is WDR just exposure adjustment? that uses instead Auto something else that works better at night?

is there auto turn ON WDR in dark and OFF at day? or any plans to add such feature to FW?

on that video
it looks like that 291 sensor is uses higher ISO vs 322
also I see more details from older 322 vs STARVIS 291
 
is there a way to get info about exposure info for every frame? like Shutter Speed, Aperture (I think it's constant 1.6 or 1.8), ISO ?
No, not on any dashcam I know of.

The camera has no aperture so that is defined by the size of the lens.
does A119S imx291 sensor really do HDR? takes 60fps to produce 30fps HDR? or the best takes 120fps to produce 60fps HDR?
The IMX291 can do HDR, but currently it is not supported in firmware. Once the A119 HDR is released and working well then Viofo might add HDR to the A119s, although the IMX291 can only do multi-exposure HDR, not as sophisticated as the A119 sensor is capable of with it's "staggered HDR", we will have to wait and see what results are achieved.
is WDR just exposure adjustment? that uses instead Auto something else that works better at night?
WDR normally uses a single exposure but is a bit more clever about taking the raw 10 bit output from the sensor and squashing it into the 8 bit video files than just selecting a part of the range. On some cameras it may just give an increase in gamma, on others it may do some tone mapping to add detail in the darker areas while not destroying the contrast and colours in the well lit areas. Different cameras do it in different ways, same with HDR, they are not all equal.
is there auto turn ON WDR in dark and OFF at day? or any plans to add such feature to FW?
No.

I find WDR most useful when it is sunny, eg when driving under trees or alongside a big hedge, the exposure is set for the sunny part of the road, without WDR a bicycle in the shadows under the hedge disappears, with WDR it is visible. At night there is less contrast so WDR that deals with the shadows is normally less useful.

when it applies to video than only 2 pics are taken that produces single FRAME
if sensor can take 60fps than HDR can be only at 30fps, but each pic is taken with 1/60 or less - that 1/60 limits motion blur
Depends on the camera and sensor, on the mini 0806 you can sometimes see 4 separate exposures of steadily increasing exposure time making up a single frame, on the A119 it appears to use just two exposures where the first is a very fast exposure, resulting in less photographic quality but a lot more plate readability than the 0806. HDR doesn't necessarily affect the frame rate, depends how it is done.

Note that "HDR" and "WDR" do sometimes get used interchangeably, especially when talking about sensors rather than dashcams.
 
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