North American vendors?

cdlu

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Dash Cam
LK-7900 ACE
Is anyone aware of any North American retail vendors that sell (and preferably test and warranty) dashcams? I want a place I can reliably get non-fake equipment with specs I can see before I buy the product. I want to know what menu options are available before waiting a month for a possibly-legitimate product to arrive from overseas.

If not, it seems to me there's a business opportunity here for someone to bulk-order pretty much all the known cameras and start a North American reseller with sample videos and whatnot, set up to feel legitimate and not spammy.

David
 
It's not so easy, because if you sell cameras as official business you have to pay warranties and aftermarketing and get some profit too, to cover those expences you have to sell camera let's say 200 $, and at the same time some chinese sell same camera online for maybe 100 to 120 $. It's not very good business, remembering that many of these cameras have various small problems allmost every unit.
 
Right, which is exactly why I want to buy them from a reputable dealer. :)

I just found this, which lists several cameras that I have not seen on this site:

http://www.carblackboxstore.com/
 
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Hi cdlu,

Unfortunately most of the North American vendors are small and sell poor quality cameras for high prices. For example, the link you provided is only selling 7 cameras. 5 of them record at 480p which means the video quality will be horrible. The HD1000 records at 720p, but the price is expensive (approximately the same as the FineVu CR500-HD which has probably the best video quality of any dash cam). And the BlackVue DR400G-HD, is a discontinued model plagued with reliability problems replaced by the BlackVue DR400G-HD II. Unfortunately most of the dash cam sales sites in North America are like this. Perhaps in the future, dash cams will be more readily available at places like Best Buy and Walmart similar to GPS Navigators. Until then, ordering directly from China and Korea is the best option.
 
Also wanted to point out about that site you posted that when you look at the company contact info it lists Los Angeles, CA as the company address i am guessing, but if you go the gallery page and click the YouTube links they just link to a YouTube search with the model name not that company showing off or explaining the camera. witch i guess is both good and bad. In that it looks a little unprofessional,but it is not as misleading as it could be since you can see in some of the videos how bad some of the cameras are.
 
Ya the site's not much more confidence-inspiring than any other.

Has anyone tried to make a comprehensive list of every dashcam available (including knock-offs and professional grade ones), and where to get it?

Personally I'd be willing to pay a premium for a camera that is demonstrably reliable and warrantied, and if I had the wherewithall to do it I'd become that vendor.

David
 
Hi guys, just doing some Dash cam browsing and came upon the site.

I run a company located in Canada Reliable-Eyewitness.com
We import direct from the factory DOD-tech on-board cameras, these are 100% original cameras.
We do testing on all our orders and there is factory warranty for 1year.

Ship to Canada and USA.

Please check out the site, we have plenty of descriptions and info including videos taken in N. America by myself or customers.

Let me know what you think!

Kyle
Owner
 
Hi Kyle,

Thanks for that. I'm in Canada and would prefer a Canadian supplier; where are you based?

Do you just re-sell existing cameras or do you also produce your own?

If the latter, I have a litany of feature requests. I've talked to some friends about designing/building/selling our own but we've all got other things to do.

Thanks!

David
 
cdlu said:
If the latter, I have a litany of feature requests. I've talked to some friends about designing/building/selling our own but we've all got other things to do.

Thanks!

David

I manufacture cameras and would be interested in your ideas, end user feedback is always welcome
 
cdlu said:
Hi Kyle,

Thanks for that. I'm in Canada and would prefer a Canadian supplier; where are you based?

Do you just re-sell existing cameras or do you also produce your own?

If the latter, I have a litany of feature requests. I've talked to some friends about designing/building/selling our own but we've all got other things to do.

Thanks!

David

Hi David,

We are based in Langley, BC. Canada. At the moment we re-sell the DOD-tech brand, with a good collection of various models (V660II, VRH3, GSE550, and the TG300)
I have also been in contact with vendors to discuss the creation of our own line/brand of camera, but that will be a while if it ever materializes.
All units are tested before we ship, and come with a high capacity memory card 16gb or 32gb depending on model all class 10 speeds.
DOD-tech supplies the 1 year warranty, but we do what we can to ensure customer satisfaction.
Check out our site for full details, Paypal is accepted form of payment.
www.reliable-eyewitness.com
Canada & USA shipping at good rates with tracking numbers always!

Kyle
Owner
 
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jokiin said:
I manufacture cameras and would be interested in your ideas, end user feedback is always welcome

Ok.

I hereby place the following concept in the public domain and hope that someone does it. I want to do it but I have too many other projects. If someone gets rich off it, please send me some complimentary units. ;)

Preliminary informal specifications for in-car event-recording camera for the Western market.

Key point: modular design allows easy upgrades and limitless extensions.

Here is a list of modules I'd eventually want to provide.

Standard configuration contains one Main Module and one Main Lens module mounted together to be a single unit.

Main module (comes standard):

Hardware:
- Receives power from cigarette lighter using an existing standard data-capable wire (eg MicroUSB); able to forward power to all wire-connected modules.
- Wiring harness to plug directly into fuse panel available
- Holds one SDXC (to 2 TB) memory card. Not MicroSD; micro cards can be used with standard adapters so using full size cards is easier for consumers.
- Two mounting options:
- Suction cup mounting bracket for windshield (so the whole thing can be one unit)
- Screw/bracket mounting for glovebox/trunk/other (for slightly off-site recording)
- The module itself uses a standard photographic tripod mounting screw to connect to these mounts (one above, one below to permit easy inverted mounting; a sensor can also be included so it knows which way is up). Would be a popular feature that the mount is recyclable for other cameras and the camera can be used on tripods. The open sourcer in me is big on standards.
- Canon DIGIC chip or similar high performance image processing hardware
- At least two (preferably 4+) expansion jacks (front and back) strong enough to structurally support lens modules
- I'm imagining these like a full-size USB socket or similar, which is strong and easy to string extension cables on or connect directly. Male on the camera, female on the main module. Female can host a virtually limitless number of modules, and one module can be an adapter to support more modules including ones we haven't thought of.
- LCD screen with on-screen menus and a good UI
- Built-in battery only strong enough to ensure survival of date/time information and writing of last file in the event of unexpected loss of power (eg accident)
- Accelerometres in X, Y, Z axes can be recorded onto the image (local max - highest G force in each axis in the last 500-1000 ms) optionally. Purpose is incident detection/write-protection of recently recorded and immediately subsequent recorded files, and automatic upload if internet-capable module is attached.
- Panic button designates this moment as an incident, write-protects 30 minutes +/-.
- Significant on-board memory (in the GBs) that always records the latest data locally and can keep a short loop if no memory cards are present (And copy the data to them the moment one is inserted, especially immediately following an incident to allow for a local copy to be kept should a copy need to be turned over to police at the scene)

Software features:
- Plug-and-play ability to handle all additional hardware modules
- Loops video
- Video quality that is optimized for capturing license plates (including possible automatic license plate recognition/recording)
- Video format is H264 or something equally standard
- All information available from all modules (eg latitude/longitude/altitude/
heading from gps) is available to be written onto the image (by menu options)
- Support for up to 6 concurrently connected cameras (only 2 at maximum resolution/framerate)
- Released under GPLv2 with public changes incorporated into future releases; the money to be made is on the hardware, not the software, and using a standard USB connection and GPL software means third party vendors can easily make additional modules that do things we never thought of that would promote our sales)
- Possibly run on top of Damn Small Linux or similar. 15 second boot time is acceptable as camera would be meant to be on 24/7.

Additional modules:

1. Main/front lens module (comes standard, also available as optional extra):
- 1920x1080@30fps
- Ideally 180-degree fisheye lens software-defisheyed into a panoramic image
- Can be suction-cup mounted or attacked to front jack of main module
- Contains a microphone on either side of the lens for stereo sound support (multiple modules used could provide surround sound support)
- Good no-light performance without use of largely ineffective IR LEDs
- End module, cannot be inserted between two other modules (rotatable connection)

2. Additional lens module (optional extra)
- 120 degree field of view
- 720x480@30fps
- Single-channel audio
- Suction cup mount for rear window
- Standard modular connection so can be used on back of main module if used in windshield configuration
- End module
- Possibly weather-proof/license plate mount option for external installation

3. Battery module
- Intermediate module (has male jack in centre at one side, female jack in centre at other side, allowing direct pass-through, module is in shape of main unit to be seamless extension)
- Holds 8 standard (AA) batteries, can be inserted between any other two modules
- Allows camera to have multi-hour life as a detached camera

4a. Common memory module
- Intermediate module
- Holds single SDXC up to 2 TB card. Allows tape-loop to either record over second card when first is full, effectively doubling capacity, looping back to first when second is full or writing identical data to both cards.

4b. Severe incident memory module
- Intermediate module
- Holds single SDXC up to 2 TB card. If multiple severe incident modules present, allows tape-loop to either record over second card when first is full, effectively doubling capacity, looping back to first when second is full or writing identical data to both/all cards. Otherwise always loops latest data regardless of other non-severe-incident memory modules/
- Strongly reinforced shell to survive extreme G-load, hot fires, and prolonged immersion (possible ELT-style pinger implementation?), with unbuffered writing to ensure best possible data retention in worst possible circumstances.

5. GPS receiver module
- Intermediate module
- GPS receiving antenna
- Receiving unit contains GPS data, not display module, so main unit display can be used as a basic GPS screen (optionally)

6. GPS display module (requires GPS receiver module to be in the system)
- End module
- Has its own suction cup mount as an option
- Is a display/touch screen containing map data per a normal consumer GPS
- Provides map-location data to main module for recording in corner of recorded image
- Can be used as external display for main unit (in the event that it’s in the glove box, for example)
- Image can include street name, postal code, city name, etc. as an option with this module

7. Wifi/Bluetooth module
- Intermediate module
- Can be tethered to a wifi network or to a mobile phone to send data off-site in specific circumstances
- eg:
- low frame rate real-time (car is stolen and you want to track its current location)
- high frame rate real-time (can be used as webcam if you feel like it, if connection can handle it)
- upload of write-protected files immediately following an incident
- The use of multiple modules can permit wireless relay between different parts of this camera setup to reduce in-car wiring
- The use of this module can also permit the introduction of wireless modules

8. GSM module
- Intermediate module
- Can be equipped with its own SIM card and used as data-only cell phone to same purpose as #7

9. Blackbox module
- End unit
- Likely the most difficult one to do and requires auto industry cooperation
- Plugs directly into existing on-board computers in cars to record full telemetric information with video, permitting use as Flight Data Recorder equivalent (cruise control state, pedal state, steering wheel state, fuel state, O2 sensor readings, tire pressure, airbag deployment, etc., whatever data is available)
- Each auto manufacturer will require own version of this module
- Can also be used for at-home mechanical diagnostic information

10. Aviation/marine module
- Intermediate module
- Barometer
- Static air pressure
- Gyro artificial horizon recorder
- Compass
- Provides data to simulate basic flight instruments on recorded image

As you can see this is a big pipe dream but I think there's a market for this. I just lack the expertise to figure out how to do it. :)
 
most of what you describe is possible, it's probably not practical though, not currently at least

some interesting ideas there nonetheless

at the moment I see the priorities being, keep it small, keep it simple, make it work better in low light, add the ability to support a second camera, keep the quality full HD at minimum, increase the amount of storage and the ease at which files can be accessed, improve the data collected and above all keep it affordable
 
Hi cdlu,

I think that is the most comprehensive dash cam wish list I have ever seen. It will be interesting to see what new features are introduced this year. I think it will be a while until a large number of those features get implemented though ;)
 
jokiin said:
DashCamMan said:
Hi cdlu,
I think it will be a while until a large number of those features get implemented though ;)

quite a while, couple of ideas in there though ;)

Not a problem. No idea has ever been implemented in any system that wasn't first thought of by someone at some point.

And I agree, a simple dashcam would be nice. The most frustrating thing to me about dashcams I see on the market right now are: lack of SDXC to 2 TB support (why is everything limited to archaic 32GB SDHC support? And why do so many manufacturers insist on the far less flexible MicroSD format even in physically large cameras?), the poor low-light performance, and the need for external software to read back some of the data. In other words, I want G-sensor and extensive GPS data imprinted right on the image. At 1920x1080 framesize there's no reason that a full information box or strip cannot be included, and proprietary formats for the videos is a total non-starter. They must use standard codecs.

I want a camera that I can play back an incident on the scene while continuing to record, ideally one that would allow me to make a copy of an incident to give to a responding officer on site without suspending the recording in place.
 
cdlu said:
jokiin said:
DashCamMan said:
Hi cdlu,
I think it will be a while until a large number of those features get implemented though ;)

quite a while, couple of ideas in there though ;)

Not a problem. No idea has ever been implemented in any system that wasn't first thought of by someone at some point.

And I agree, a simple dashcam would be nice. The most frustrating thing to me about dashcams I see on the market right now are: lack of SDXC to 2 TB support (why is everything limited to archaic 32GB SDHC support? And why do so many manufacturers insist on the far less flexible MicroSD format even in physically large cameras?), the poor low-light performance, and the need for external software to read back some of the data. In other words, I want G-sensor and extensive GPS data imprinted right on the image. At 1920x1080 framesize there's no reason that a full information box or strip cannot be included, and proprietary formats for the videos is a total non-starter. They must use standard codecs.

I want a camera that I can play back an incident on the scene while continuing to record, ideally one that would allow me to make a copy of an incident to give to a responding officer on site without suspending the recording in place.

SDXC support will come I'm sure, in the current market larger cards are dearer than some cameras so not such an issue right now

Why some use MicroSD when an SD would fit I have no idea, there is no logic to it really, not something we do

Low light performance is improving with each generation, takes time to get it right

The amount of data available from the GPS and G-Sensor is not practical to overlay on the video so you'd either compromise the amount of data, or you'd compromise the amount of picture, there's no right or wrong answer, our overlay is like this http://www.jokiin.com/images/car_dvr_screenshot.jpg but playback (our cams use Registrator Viewer) looks like this http://www.jokiin.com/images/playback.jpg getting all the extra info available as an overlay isn't practical, the files themselves can play straight up on a lot of Tablets, Android devices, iPad etc and the basic info that is there already would cover a lot of what people need, time and date, location, speed etc

We don't use any proprietary codecs, files are just H.264 MOV files, I've used cameras that do use proprietary stuff though and they are difficult to work with
 
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jokiin said:
SDXC support will come I'm sure, in the current market larger cards are dearer than some cameras so not such an issue right now

Why some use MicroSD when an SD would fit I have no idea, there is no logic to it really, not something we do

Low light performance is improving with each generation, takes time to get it right

The amount of data available from the GPS and G-Sensor is not practical to overlay on the video so you'd either compromise the amount of data, or you'd compromise the amount of picture, there's no right or wrong answer, our overlay is like this http://www.jokiin.com/images/car_dvr_screenshot.jpg but playback (our cams use Registrator Viewer) looks like this http://www.jokiin.com/images/playback.jpg getting all the extra info available as an overlay isn't practical, the files themselves can play straight up on a lot of Tablets, Android devices, iPad etc and the basic info that is there already would cover a lot of what people need, time and date, location, speed etc

We don't use any proprietary codecs, files are just H.264 MOV files, I've used cameras that do use proprietary stuff though and they are difficult to work with

I have 2 SDXC 64 GB cards I use in my 720x480-playing junky knock-off, so I'm surprised that that camera can handle them while all the fancy ones can't. It isn't rocket science and the SDXC spec goes to 2 TB so there's really no excuse not to be forward-looking on preparing cameras for those looming extra large cards. A few years from now 2 TB cards and 1 PB hard drives will be the norm and whoever gets ahead of that curve will be the survivor in the market.

What I'd like to see with the available data is configurability. I'm an all-Linux shop so whenever a camera comes with proprietary software to manage it, I won't buy it. Just like I won't use Windows at home because its insistence that it knows what I want more than I do, I don't want to use devices that have the capability to be configured but aren't because the developer assumes they know what the user wants and will be willing to compromise on. I want, on the menus, the ability to add (or not add) every piece of information the camera itself knows. That means G sensors in all axes, that means latitude, longitude, time, and easily calculable from the GPS data is speed (the speed needs to be certified as accurate somehow -- if you can prove that it's accurate, you can use the data to fight a ticket. If it's not, any prosecutor will have a field day demonstrating the unreliability of it), heading, and elevation above (or below) sealevel. I don't think there's any need to tuck the data away in corners as you have done. Having a strip along the top or bottom (that, and the colours/transparency, should also be easily configurable) with all the data compactly in a small font (as you have done) as what's needed. At 1920x1080, as many cameras now do, you can fit 6 full VGA images plus remainder on the screen, so there's ample room to put in unobtrusive data.

Seamless looping of course should be a must. My camera has a hopeless 30-second gap on loop, but I really believe there needs to be a way to insert a second card, or have a second card always present, that can be used to pull data off without ending the main card recording. There a 2 GB card that just records the last 30 minutes in a loop could be used, even, but I want something. If you give your only card to the officer on the scene, your only proof that you did so just went with the card, and if anything happens during the investigation (accidents at accident scenes are extremely common) it won't be captured.

In any case, I won't be buying any new cameras until I find one that provides these features at a minimum. They're pretty much all firmware issues (except the dual card) and they should be relatively easy to implement in future releases.
 
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jokiin, the font from that screenshots is ugly for me. Maybe you can't change it. But I hope all characters have the same width and numbers like 1 or 4 to not make dancing the values on the screen.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
cdlu said:
I have 2 SDXC 64 GB cards I use in my 720x480-playing junky knock-off, so I'm surprised that that camera can handle them while all the fancy ones can't. It isn't rocket science and the SDXC spec goes to 2 TB so there's really no excuse not to be forward-looking on preparing cameras for those looming extra large cards. A few years from now 2 TB cards and 1 PB hard drives will be the norm and whoever gets ahead of that curve will be the survivor in the market..

likely it is based on a newer solution, we'll see more SDXC support I'm sure, some of the ones that have this now though fall short in other areas, rushing something to market just to say you have it isn't always the best idea

cdlu said:
What I'd like to see with the available data is configurability. I'm an all-Linux shop so whenever a camera comes with proprietary software to manage it, I won't buy it. Just like I won't use Windows at home because its insistence that it knows what I want more than I do, I don't want to use devices that have the capability to be configured but aren't because the developer assumes they know what the user wants and will be willing to compromise on. I want, on the menus, the ability to add (or not add) every piece of information the camera itself knows. That means G sensors in all axes, that means latitude, longitude, time, and easily calculable from the GPS data is speed (the speed needs to be certified as accurate somehow -- if you can prove that it's accurate, you can use the data to fight a ticket. If it's not, any prosecutor will have a field day demonstrating the unreliability of it), heading, and elevation above (or below) sealevel. I don't think there's any need to tuck the data away in corners as you have done. Having a strip along the top or bottom (that, and the colours/transparency, should also be easily configurable) with all the data compactly in a small font (as you have done) as what's needed. At 1920x1080, as many cameras now do, you can fit 6 full VGA images plus remainder on the screen, so there's ample room to put in unobtrusive data.
.

What we have on screen is what we felt was needed, beyond that can always be viewed on a PC, what we have is individually selectable as well, each item is selectable on or off, it's not all or nothing, there's some practicalities of having too much data on screen, think about where you're viewing the file, on a smaller display like a phone screen it's not so practical, if you need to use a larger screen like a computer then it negates the reason to have all the data overlaid anyway

to expand on your suggestion though if all the data was available it would be better if it was created in the same manner as a subtitle file on a movie file where it could easily be turned on and off, this type of overlay is embedded in the file which some people like, some people don't and it's selectable on or off to accommodate that, you can leave the embedded data off and export the data from the associated NMEA file through Registrator Viewer as a subtitle file and then have the ability to turn it on and off, the cameras don't (currently) have enough processing power to be able to do this though so the program on the PC is still needed, this is only for a Windows environment though, not sure if there's an open source equivalent

cdlu said:
Seamless looping of course should be a must. My camera has a hopeless 30-second gap on loop, but I really believe there needs to be a way to insert a second card, or have a second card always present, that can be used to pull data off without ending the main card recording. There a 2 GB card that just records the last 30 minutes in a loop could be used, even, but I want something. If you give your only card to the officer on the scene, your only proof that you did so just went with the card, and if anything happens during the investigation (accidents at accident scenes are extremely common) it won't be captured.

In any case, I won't be buying any new cameras until I find one that provides these features at a minimum. They're pretty much all firmware issues (except the dual card) and they should be relatively easy to implement in future releases.

We actually have a dual memory version in early stages of development now, memory is onboard and can hot plug a memory card and have it dump all files to card for backup/storage, not sure about doing this while continuing to record though, maybe possible, not sure at this stage but I'm sure it will be looked at as a possibility
 
Mtz said:
jokiin, the font from that screenshots is ugly for me. Maybe you can't change it. But I hope all characters have the same width and numbers like 1 or 4 to not make dancing the values on the screen.

enjoy,
Mtz

not sure what you mean about dancing values??

there's a couple of approaches to doing the data overlay and it's not easy to find something everyone likes, I agree it would be nicer if the font could be a bit smaller, some don't use an outline on the font which makes them smaller and neater but it also means the detail can get lost in the background at times, it also makes them near impossible to read on a small screen, these I can still read when played back on an iPhone

adding an outline and a high contrast colour like we have is for practical reasons, for this we needed function over asthetics
 
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