Not a Happy Camper with the A139

[HonestReview]

YOUTUBE LINKING SEEMS DOWN - Click WATCH ON YOUTUBE to SEE VIDEOS!

Note: Wifi was DISABLED in test #1 and #2. Only Low Bitrate Park Mode was running and car was parked in direct sunlight.

Ejecting Memory Card (Simulating Memory Card Overheating Sequence) - Different than Overheating Camera

CAMERA OVERHEATING SEQUENCE: Test #2- Camera Shuts Off Spontaneously - Corrupts Front / Rear / Interior File being Written at time of Shutdown (Happens at 51 Seconds).

THIS WAS TEST #1. I had the camera at a bad angle. Bad Angle made it look like the Camera stopped recording. Camera was indeed recording and all lights were illuminated. I just had a bad angle. Similar to TEST #2 camera shuts down spontaneously Corrupting the Front / Rear / Interior files being written to at time of shutdown.

 

[HonestReview]

So what's people's thought here? Do I have a faulty camera? Or is this a design flaw Causing Overheating? I.E. Lack of Proper Cooling and/or Black Case trapping in too much heat. Really like to know how other peoples' cameras are behaving. As @SawMaster seems to say he isn't experiencing random shutdowns.

I replaced the Zenfox T3 I got for free with this camera, and feel a bit disappointed. Hoping my A139 is FAULTY and not a repeat of the ZenfoxT3. Otherwise, I wasted a lot of good money when I could have just kept the Zenfox T3!

 

[Nath]

@HonestReview One thing. Isn't the camera you used to record A139's reaction by any chance equipped with a timestamp as well? I'm wondering whether the A139 last not corrupted file really ends few moments before the LEDs went off or whether the camera was dead for a few (tens of) minutes and LEDs were just sucking the last drops of energy stored in capacitors.

So, we have @sanhwy's unit A139 which bootloops and after some time freezes, @HonestReview's unit which shuts down like it never heard about capacitor, @kamkar's unit which shuts down (a bit too soon but) normaly and @mentadent's unit which I don't know how it acts in a car BUT interestingly enough he was able to move his lava-hot unit home and noticed when there is a higher power consumption (probably, just an assumption) the capacitors don't have enough energy to backup the shutdown.

Isn't possible that the culprits are the capacitors afterall?

 

[jokiin]

I'm wondering whether the A139 last not corrupted file really ends few moments before the LEDs went off or whether the camera was dead for a few (tens of) minutes and LEDs were just sucking the last drops of energy stored in capacitors.

when caps are run down like that the LED's slowly fade out, they don't go out instantly

Isn't possible that the culprits are the capacitors afterall?

I wouldn't think so based on how it behaves the rest of the time

 

[Nath]

when caps are run down like that the LED's slowly fade out, they don't go out instantly

There could be other things which are independent on the chipset and consumes the power (for instance the additional camera sensors, de/serializers, etc.), I haven't meant it literally. Not to mention in A139 there is a separated PCB for 5 buttons, 4 LEDs and a speaker, all connected via 8 pin flex connector so it's possible (I'm well aware there are ways to connect them so to occupy less than they need) that at least the binary IO are controlled via another chip...

I wouldn't think so based on how it behaves the rest of the time

Just a thought. I remember that in A129Pro there were used more than one type/manufacturer of "supercaps" so it could be the same case here and one of them could be less tolerant to heat. A129Pro also had some issues with proper heat dissipation due to various quality of providing thermalpaste (there was even an user which found no thermal paste in his unit whatsoever ), and in case of A139 here he actually claims there was an issue with it.

 

[HonestReview]

@HonestReview One thing. Isn't the camera you used to record A139's reaction by any chance equipped with a timestamp as well? I'm wondering whether the A139 last not corrupted file really ends few moments before the LEDs went off or whether the camera was dead for a few (tens of) minutes and LEDs were just sucking the last drops of energy stored in capacitors.

1. Camera is Shutdown. Once I boot it back up, and enable wifi, I have verified each time the last 3 files being written to are corrupt. Same as I posted here earlier on. So I didn't feel the need to rehash. But yes, each time there's an unclean shutdown, the files are corrupt.

2. Yes the old 480 camcorder has a timestamp but was unnecessary. Again, I go to my car, find the A139 turned off. I boot it back and see the last files prior to overheating are corrupted (front / rear / interior).

3. It isn't supercapacitor related. I already verified mine works. While the camera is on, I took out the power, and the last files being written were properly existed. So simply removing the power during write, didn't result in corrupted files. If the capacitor was bad, those files would be corrupt. Note: Wifi doesn't work when camera is in park mode.

4. Ejecting memory card while camera is recording DID RESULT in last written files prior to shutdown being corrupt (front / rear / interior). However, per my video, ejecting the memory card to simulate overheating resulted in a completely different shutoff pattern.

Overheating was camera works one minute, completely powers off the next without properly exiting the files being written. Resulting in those files ended up corrupt. If you watch my first attempt closely (yes I f*cked up the camera angle) you can see the GPS light illuminated and barely the Mic light. Record doesn't show up and you would think camera had stopped recording. However, The reason I know the camera was operating and rescording (and not some weird shutdown sequence) is all 3 files corrupted at the same time. Similar to test #2.

So two tests, camera shutdowns spontaneously, and files are corrupt = Overheating.

Now I need to find out if MY CAMERA is faulty or if others can replicate my tests

 

[Nath]

1. Camera is Shutdown. Once I boot it back up, and enable wifi, I have verified each time the last 3 files being written to are corrupt. Same as I posted here earlier on. So I didn't feel the need to rehash. But yes, each time there's an unclean shutdown, the files are corrupt.

2. Yes the old 480 camcorder has a timestamp but was unnecessary. Again, I go to my car, find the A139 turned off. I boot it back and see the last files prior to overheating are corrupted (front / rear / interior).

I think you have misunderstood me what I'm up to. What if, at the moment the LEDs are turned off, your dashcam is actually dead already last 30 minutes..? That's why I was curious whether you are able to compare the moment where A139 stopped recording (aka last not corrupted file) and time in video from the old 480p camera.

That's why in many devices there is something called "heartbeat" but a blinking LED in a car could be very annoying.

3. It isn't supercapacitor related. I already verified mine works. While the camera is on, I took out the power, and the last files being written were properly existed. So simply removing the power during write, didn't result in corrupted files. If the capacitor was bad, those files would be corrupt. ...

Have you tested this right after the camera just died (at its peak temperature) or after it was cooled down? I'm thinking about this based on @mentadent's observations.

4. Ejecting memory card while camera is recording DID RESULT in last written files prior to shutdown being corrupt (front / rear / interior). However, per my video, ejecting the memory card to simulate overheating resulted in a completely different shutoff pattern.

I don't deny it.

Overheating was camera works one minute, completely powers off the next without properly exiting the files being written. Resulting in those files ended up corrupt. If you watch my first attempt closely (yes I f*cked up the camera angle) you can see the GPS light illuminated and barely the Mic light. Record doesn't show up and you would think camera had stopped recording. However, The reason I know the camera was operating and rescording (and not some weird shutdown sequence) is all 3 files corrupted at the same time.

I actually saw all LEDs lit up right away on both videos, via my phone, while I was half-asleep in my bed. But tbh I don't understand the logic behind the last sentence.

 

[jokiin]

I think you haven't understood me what I'm up to. What if, at the moment the LEDs are turned off, your dashcam is actually dead already last 30 minutes..?

LED's will fade down in this situation

it looks to be doing the shutdown, but not cleanly

 

[Nath]

.... Not to mention in A139 there is a separated PCB for 5 buttons, 4 LEDs and a speaker, all connected via 8 pin flex connector so it's possible (I'm well aware there are ways to connect them so to occupy less than they need) that at least the binary IO are controlled via another chip...

My bad, I had to look it up again, buttons are on one board and LEDs are on another one. So it matches the number of pins on connectors, sorry.

 

[jokiin]

My bad, I had to look it up again, buttons are on one board and LEDs are on another one. So it matches the number of pins on connectors, sorry.

is there photos of one of these stripped down?

 

[Nigel]

My guess, and I'll confirm tomorrow, is that my camera is cutting within a few degrees of the -10 to +65C "cutoff". So if it is shutting down at 65C (150 Degrees F) or within a few degrees Fahrenheit / Celsius, then I'd like others to confirm this fact.

Don't think you ever confirmed this, so can you now confirm that it is shutting down only when it goes over the maximum temperature specification?

So what's your opinion here, being a camera manufacturer. Do you think my unit is faulty and overheating prematurely? Is my unit working to spec and simply overheating?

It is not clear to me what should happen when it goes over specification, I think most people would expect a clean shutdown, but it is not actually a fault if it is designed in a way that corrupts the last file, it is more important that it protects itself from physical damage.

If my unit is working to spec, why are people like @SawMaster who sees 30C temperatures not experiencing similar failures?

My guess is that their vehicles are cooler, but without accurate temperature measurements, we will never know. In general people with smaller cars will have more problems, mainly due to the lack of air circulation, but also they tend to have a higher glass ratio which collects relatively more heat from the sun.

 

[HonestReview]

I think you have misunderstood me what I'm up to. What if, at the moment the LEDs are turned off, your dashcam is actually dead already last 30 minutes..? That's why I was curious whether you are able to compare the moment where A139 stopped recording (aka last not corrupted file) and time in video from the old 480p camera.

I don't think that's the case.

1. We see if memory card is ejected, the camera immediately shuts down. So i would hypothesize if camera is frozen, and cannot write, it shuts down.
2. The camera isn't beeping or giving any notification that there's an error.
3. Camera powers itself off immediately.

That's why in many devices there is something called "heartbeat" but a blinking LED in a car could be very annoying.


Have you tested this right after the camera just died (at its peak temperature) or after it was cooled down? I'm thinking about this based on @mentadent's observations.


I don't deny it.


I actually saw all LEDs lit up right away on both videos, via my phone, while I was half-asleep in my bed. But tbh I don't understand the logic behind the last sentence.

A blinking LED would be distracting while driving so not sure what other indicator could be given to state the camera is recording.

 

[HonestReview]

Don't think you ever confirmed this, so can you now confirm that it is shutting down only when it goes over the maximum temperature specification?

My A139 functions perfectly in all other conditions except when parked in direct sunlight. Then the unit overheats. I already did a basic thermometer test earlier on, remember.

It is not clear to me what should happen when it goes over specification, I think most people would expect a clean shutdown, but it is not actually a fault if it is designed in a way that corrupts the last file, it is more important that it protects itself from physical damage.


My guess is that their vehicles are cooler, but without accurate temperature measurements, we will never know. In general people with smaller cars will have more problems, mainly due to the lack of air circulation, but also they tend to have a higher glass ratio which collects relatively more heat from the sun.

I have a Volvo S60. My car is a sedan with tinted windows. 80% on front windshield (blocks 20%) of light. I believe either 20 or 35% (Blocks 65-80%) on rest of windows. I cannot remember for sure the other tints.

I believe that corruption of the last file could be corrected in a firmware update. Set the camera to cleanly shutdown maybe at 1C or so from the critical mass point. Therefore, allowing the camera to protect itself and not corrupt the last file written.

I don't recall off top of my head whether the Zenfox T3 corrupted the last file being written. Although I don't think it did?

 

[SawMaster]

As I see it, whether a cam saves the last file properly when it overheats and stops recording is of little concern compared to the fact that it is not going to be recording at all thereafter. It is only a small percentage of the big loss. Let us note that it is happening in case it may help with diagnosing this issue, but what is needed here is to stay focused on determining why some A139's are stopping during parking mode while other's aren't.

If you solve the root cause of a problem, you usually see all the other related problems it caused solving themselves

Phil

 

[HonestReview]

As I see it, whether a cam saves the last file properly when it overheats and stops recording is of little concern compared to the fact that it is not going to be recording at all thereafter. It is only a small percentage of the big loss. Let us note that it is happening in case it may help with diagnosing this issue, but what is needed here is to stay focused on determining why some A139's are stopping during parking mode while other's aren't.

If you solve the root cause of a problem, you usually see all the other related problems it caused solving themselves

Phil

How come you won't answer my question. What memory card are you using in your camera?

Someone made a good point. That the cabin size can also be a factor. A larger vehicle (minivan) takes longer to heat up than a Sedan (I drive an S60). So that could be one variable why your camera isn't overheating. Although, I would think being mounted on the windshield in direct sunlight would focus the core amount of heat on the camera and the cabin temperature being a secondary issue.

 

[HonestReview]

Setup Thermometer. Temperature in vehicle reached 71.1 to 72.2 or 160 to 162 degrees Fahrenheit. I had to borrow a thermometer from my neighbor (American) to rig this contraption with a rope. Nothing I had was long enough, would stay in place, and not fall down. Making this Thermometer in Fahrenheit, so I apologize. Camera lasted about 44 minutes and 45 seconds before shutting down.

Conditions: Car was parked in shade and cool before test began. So I let the car sit in direct sunlight and heat up naturally during test.

Results: Files being written (Front / Rear / Interior) corrupted at spontaneous shutdown. All other files prior to these are proper 5 minute length and play just fine. A139 Shutdown at between 71.1 and 72.2C - 160 to 162F.

Video: Camera shuts off at 45/46 seconds into video.

Uncertain: Doubt camera would restart on its own after cool down, but have not tried to say for sure.

 

[HBDave]

160f degrees, that's a well done steak in America!

I'm not sure any dash cam's are going to perform well above 160f?

 

[HonestReview]

160f degrees, that's a well done steak in America!

I'm not sure any dash cam's are going to perform well above 160f?

Problem is that these temperatures are easily achieved in most parts of the world. Doesn't take but 25-27C (77 F to 80F) to heat up a car to these conditions. Those temperatures are seen by most of the world in summer.

Global Warming....England isn't known for heatwaves. Yet even now London is getting very hot. I picked on UK because @Nigel loves telling us how the world never gets above 20C.

 

[EGS]

In the video, I heard a click at the moment where the camera shutdown. Was that the ignition switch being turned off manually or where did the click came from?

 

[kamkar]

Well the Danish weather gurus,,,,,, funded by tax money, are not worth much, my friend have diverted to another weather service ( Norwegian i think ) which he feel is more accurate.
I only take the weather forecast as a general pointer, i would never bet anything on it.

I remember some 20 - 30 years ago, the weather guru in TV said it might get a little windy,,,,, we got the biggest storm seen in many decades.