Security Cam

[nlneilson]

New member

A dash cam is about the closest I could find for a security cam.

I would like to get something that takes a 64GB card and 12 volt input.
I would like to have it on for two weeks. 1fps and/or motion detection. Whatever will be required to last 2 weeks

Neil

 

[Dashmellow]

It sounds like the Mobius would meet your needs. Small, discreet, can accomodate a 64GB card (if formatted correctly) and can shoot time lapse photos between intervals of 0.25s to 60s.

It might be useful if you could elaborate a little on why you want to use a dash cam as a security cam rather than a "real" security cam designed for what you seek to accomplish.
I use both CCTV security systems and dash cams and even use an older dash cam as a surveillance camera temorarily on occassion but I don't think I would rely on a dash cam for extended surveillance as they are not really designed for this and it could happen that you could lose the key footage you are after. One of my dedicated CCTV DVRs captures 30fps on 4 cameras and can run 24/7 for over three weeks before it overwrites.

 

[nlneilson]

Thanks for the response and information. dash cameras that are readily available at a reasonable price seemed a viable option. Previously ran LAN cables and had severale cameras hooked to a laptop. I do not want to have a system that requires a computer to be continuously running. I have used several 'game' cameras with motion detection which is very bad to detect motion with a time lapse before a picture.
I had a breakin several years ago for about $ 20,000 loss in theft and damages.

Several 'dash cams could be an option. I may end up witha cctv system also but isn't that the tv format?

I am not familiar with security cameras other than what I have mentioned and most rquire 110vac which can be done with an inverter but would prefer to just use my 12v lines for power. I am new just looking for information. the Mobius may be a good start.

Neil

 

[Dashmellow]

The latest generation of CCTV DVRs are actually High Definition NVRs (Network Video Recorders) that use megapixel IP cameras that can operate in 720P and 1080P resolutions. In the last year or so prices have come down dramatically. You can buy a 4 channel HD NVR for less than 200 dollars nowadays. (also requires a hard drive (1 or 2TB), ethernet cables and of course, the 4 IP cameras). So basically, this will give you a real full time surveillance system that can monitor 24/7 and also be viewable on a smart phone, tablet or laptop computer from any remote location. If you are already familair with and LAN cameras, then all you would probably need is a dedicated NVR instead of the computer. While these kind of NVR or DVR systems all usually run off of AC current, the fact is that most of them are actually 12V units that use plug-in wall wart type transformers. If you could supply 12 volts with enough amperage (maybe 4 amps) it would be possible to run them off 12V. I'm still not quite sure why you need a 12 volt set-up if this is a home surveillance system though.

 

[kamkar]

The ultimate is in my view IP cameras as it sounds like you have tried, but you will have to unload the footage somwhere, either a running computer or a NAS box.
There is allso the dedicated storage boxes for ip cameras, but to me they seem pretty expensive compared to a NAS box with a couple of 2 Tb harddrives.

Allso you will have to use decent IP cameras, the 2 i have tried years back wasent stellar in performance, but these days a nice 1080P / 30 FPS camera can be had for 100 - 200 dollars and up.
I am dying to replace the analog cameras i have in my Apartment, but that is on standby as i am jobless at the moment, and not least as i would like 1 PTZ camera as i have now, and those as IP cams will cost around 500 dollars.

It sould nike your need is mostly outside your house, so dropcam and the later this year released flir FX cameras might be out of the question. ( tho the flir fx will have a outdoore housing )

Analog cctv cameras have a max resolution of 700 tv lines, and a good one is useable for Things sneaking around.
But with IP cameras dropping in prize all the time i would not use the old fasioned cctv cameras.

 

[nlneilson]

One problem with the LAN cameras is they each need a router. Do the newer cctv cameras each require a router also.

Most will be outside and several hundred feet apart. I have a Panasonic with PT but no zoom.

 

[kamkar]

I dont think so, i asume 4 cameras sould plug into a network switch, and then from there 1 cable to a NVR or NAS box.

The 2 cams i had back then was just plugged into 2 netcards in a old computer, this was easy to see on the elektrical bill for my house.

But that was around 1998 and computers have been improved on a lot when it come Down to consumption.

Truth be told a NVR and a NAS box is allso just a computer, but since they are supposed to run 24/7 they are build with components that are easy on the power bill.

Lets see what our new guy Razer have to say, from his HI message it seem like he is the MAN when it come to this stuff.

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/thread...y-camera-guy-learning-the-dashcam-world.5294/

 

[Dashmellow]

I don't know anything about your particular cameras but generally speaking, the NVR operates as the router (that's why they are called Network Video Recorders) and they are sold to accomodate 4-8-16 or 32 cameras.
A good source to learn about CCTV surveillance systems and to get some of your questions answered is the CCTV forum.

 

[nlneilson]

The router or
a network switch requires the camera to be within a certain distance. I had several hundred feet between cameras so each had to have it's own. Maybe things have changed.

With dash cams that would not be an issue but the reliability of a wired system would be good but 6 or 8
Mobius cams would be quick and easy.

 

[Dashmellow]

My understanding is that you can go 100 meters with CAT5 cables with PoE for IP cameras. Beyond that you would need an extender.

Using 6 or 8 Mobius cameras is not a practical solution for several reasons. Firstly, 8 Mobius camera would cost about 560 dollars just for the cameras and this could be better spent on a system designed for what you want to do. You would also need to buy 6 or 8 - 64GB microSD cards, adding several hundred dollars to the cost of doing this! More importantly, Mobius cameras cannot send HD footage over cables. With the available wiring harness you could only send standard 4:3 definition video live over a cable while recording 720P or 1080P onto the microSD card in the camera. This set-up is usually used for FPV by RC enthusiasts. You would also need to power each camera with 5v DC @ 1amp. I really think your notion of using dash cams for long distance full time surveillance isn't worth pursuing considering what your needs are. It really sounds like you need a dedicated surveillance NVR.

Edit: Even if you want to use multiple Mobius cams without running cables you mention using them outdoors. You would not only need to power them full time but they would have to be protected from the weather with something like the JooVoo waterproof case, modified for external power.

 

[nlneilson]

The cost is an issue but the ip cameras and nvr/dvr would/could be more than $1200,
maybe units different from what I have looked at could be less.
but what is the current draw
Sending the images would not be an issue as the SD cards would be put into a computer, that has worked for me for several years but not with 64GB.
Would the IP cameras need to be protected from the weather also?

Some cam/record units are even waterproof, I don't know if any are near the quality/capability of the Mobius or if they would cost more. 5v DC @ 1amp could be an extra hassle but itchwhat is the current draw at 12v with the included cigsrette lighter plug? I downloaded a manual but did not find that.
I recall with the previous Lan system 5v was required for the router/switch, I don't recall what the cameras required but do remember several heat sinks

I could do more checking on an IP system but so far the cost would be more.

 

[Dashmellow]

Neil, I'm not sure I understand your logic. From what you've stated, your motivation for wanting to have surveillance on your home is that you previously suffered a $20,000 loss for theft and damages and you want to monitor the property in the event something like that might happen again. The cost of a dedicated IP surveillance system even if it is $1200 or more is peanuts when compared to the loss you suffered along with the security and peace of mind it would provide.

Like I've already said, Mobius cameras shooting time lapse photos would not be adequate, would be very expensive in their own right, might fail to work at the critical moment because they are not really meant for this purpose and would be a huge time consuming hassle. You would have to constantly go around and remove all the microSD cards and load the footage on your computer and manually view the clips. You then have to go and put the all the cards back into the cameras which would be in some sort of waterproof cases from what you are saying. You'd have to deal with some sort of separate 12v/5v power supplies. You'd have to format the cards periodically. Dash cameras can not see in the total darkness although some are "reasonably good" in low light. There is the very real possibility that an event could occur but you might not get back to the cameras in time before it writes over the important footage.

A dedicated NVR would give you complete reliability, far better image quality with true 30 fps or more HD video rather than time lapse photos, true infrared "see in total darkness" night time performance and set it and forget it functionality and convenience. The NVR provides you with various ways to review and work with the video footage. You can also go back and forth frame by frame, zoom in to the image or view in slow motion. NVRs can even be programed easily to email you if a certain type of event occurs or trigger an alarm. Beyond that you could monitor your home on your phone, computer or tablet from anywhere in the world. You can record weeks or months of video depending on the size of your hard drive. Etc. etc.

To answer your question about IP cameras being protected from the weather you need to buy dedicated IP surveillance cameras designed for use outdoors. These waterproof cameras are very common and they have built in Infra-Red illuminators (LEDs) that allow the cameras to see in total darkness as much as 100 feet or more away.

Also, think of it this way. Aside from not giving you anywhere near the performance, convenience or reliability of a NVR, 8 Mobius cameras would cost you $552 at 69 dollars each. Eight 64GB microSD cards will cost approximately 40 dollars each, so we'll call it $320. You'll need eight power supplies plus cables (I have no clue what you have in mind for this but hypothetically for the sake of argument let's say you get off cheap and spend 25 bucks for each battery or transformer set-up or whatever. That's another $200. Then there would be the JooVoo waterproof cases (or whatever you come up with) which are about 23 dollars USD, so if you had 8 of those it would be another $184.00. That totals $1256.00!

This is the proverbial no-brainer. It makes no sense to use anything other than a true full time fixed surveillance system for your needs. Dashcams are really a form of "action camera" designed to film scenes in motion for periods of minutes or hours in a moving vehicle. They could be used temporarily for fixed surveillance but they are not intended as full time 24/7 cameras, especially outdoors.

 

[nlneilson]

Thanks for your time considering and explaining the pros and cons.

As far as 12v power that is not a problem. I have several solar panels and and several large auto batteries but several should be replaced just because of age and cells going bad. That cost would be the same for either system or even for my general usage which has worked fine for many years. I have the power wires run to several places where I want cameras and been powering the cameras that has been used and one that is still working.

It is the IP cameras that would be the most problematic for power, reducing to 5v for the routers,switches, cameras and the recorder for storage.

This is not in a home, it is for a 50acre Farm/Ranch. The cameras would be to prevent another break-in. Getting the images to the Sheriffs Dept. has worked several times as they were on my proprty. I doubt even the dumbest burgler would not case the place before cutting the lock or chain on the gate to bring a vehicle in to haul stuff out. They might also be concerned about getting caught by the Sheriff Dept. and/or getting blasted by a 12 gauge

For cost of two dash cams, sd cards and the time required it would be good to try it. I want to replace the game cameras I have now with something better.

With an IP systen it would be a big cost up front and much more time and work. Then if I need the PTZ IP cameras some serious money could be spent.

 

[nlneilson]

A good quality Vid camera with a good lens with zoom that could be left or auto reset after power off would be ideal to try if the frame rate could be set lower to last for 2 weeks before running out of memory .
A dash camra is closest to that. The security guard let me tinker with the PTZ control of the camera in a Fry's store. Very good but very expensive also.

 

[Dashmellow]

There are numerous solutions for what you'd like to accomplish that are much superior to dash cams for this application including relatively modest priced wireless IP cameras that can transmit for up to a mile. As far as "IP cameras that would be the most problematic for power, reducing to 5v", this too is a trivial matter to deal with using inexpensive voltage converters. I've tried my best to convince you that the way you plan to go about this is unnecessarily complicated and won't work as well as a proper dedicated networked system with night vision capabilities and indeed there are many individuals whose situations are similar to yours who use such set-ups. With all due respect, it sounds from your posts as if you had your mind made up about how you plan to do this before you asked for feedback and advice, so I'm not quite sure what the whole exercise was all about. In any event, best of luck with whatever solution you choose in the end.

 

[Dashmellow]

Neil, there's one last thing I'd like to add that I probably should have mentioned in my previous post. I happen to live on a 30 acre rural property so I am not unfamiliar with the kind of situation you are describing. In fact, two years ago a guy was captured red-handed jacking deer at night out on my property by two of my night-vision CCTV cameras. A Mobius or other dash camera could never have done that and time lapse photos would never have conveyed what happened even if it did. The local game warden practically wet his pants when he saw the footage because they pretty much NEVER catch these guys in the act of committing this crime. My footage led to the guys confession and conviction.

 

[johnf]

I sell / install IP surveillance cams, I use only Axis as they support their own programming script language for doing cool custom stuff. Your situation is one of the few that I'd recommend using an inexpensive packaged CCTV system though, Costco / Sams/ etc. sells these with 2 / 4 / 8 cameras.

 

[nlneilson]

Thanks dashmellow. I just got the Mobious ordered from Newegg.

Now onto the LAN cameras.
"relatively modest priced wireless IP cameras that can transmit for up to a mile.
That would be great. The only wireless I have tried is a camera hooked to a wireless router. The results for that was poor for just 100 ft.

It's good they caught the guy/s for the deer incident.
Brands and part numbers would help in making a decision on what to buy including inexpensive voltage converters.

I wasted too much time several years ago. I would like to be more knowledgeable before jumping into something or spending money on something I will not need.

 

[nlneilson]

Johnnf: "I sell / install IP surveillance cams. What do you suggest as a package or cameras, recorders, etc..

 

[george55321]

I start looking for a new camera (Lukas 7900 presently in my car), Flir FX seems to be a great concept and I definitely will look at the Flir FX again when it is available.Only problem for today's standard is the sensor 2MP only. On my house I have a Panasonic WV-NS202A IP Camera ~5year but the camera is getting old, I think the sensor starts to crap out, the night pictures are getting more and more grainy. Daytime is still crystal clear and sharp, even on full 22x zoom. Of course at the time I spend $1200.- for everything (Camera, housing, cable......) installed it myself 40ft up in the air.