Showing off the 4K (Interpolated) Goodness of SJ5000X Elite Edition

Nathyn Masters

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the 4k crowd are all obsessed with 24fps for some reason
24p is the rate of film actually. 30p is the TV rate.

-Nate
 

Nathyn Masters

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...2880*2160 interpolated is only 3K...
But Youtube will read it as 4k and give it a better bitrate when people watch it on their screens. That's where it comes in handy.

-Nate
 

Nathyn Masters

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No they are not. Most of Chinese cheap knock offs are interpolated. It is shameful to say something like this.
Can you name all the Chinese cameras like this that aren't interpolated? Because I'd like to know. GoPro is the only one doing a real 4k standard to my knowledge and that 4K is 3840 x 2160 which is ultra HD, not true 4k which is 4096 x 2160. And they are correct, most consumer cameras are using the 3840 x 2160 standard. Their next camera will probably do a real 4k judging how they work. The last cameras did interpolated 60p and 2k now they do real 60p and 2k. My guess is the next one ("SJ6000"?) will do real 4k if they don't implement something in a firmware update (can they do that?) that will make this one record at 3840 x 2160.

Misleading as well. I really disagree with this. Actual companies that care about customers do not do such things.
When did SJCam say it was real 4K. A lot of companies do this without mentioning the interpolation at all.

So if every single knock off brand is cheating, its is OKAY?
Typical Chinese company way of doing stuff.
Again I question at what point did SJCam say it was real 4K. Every since I first knew about this camera it was stated on their website the 4K was interpolated.

-Nate
 

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Okay Nate with all due respect, it seems to me you are leaning towards SJCAM unfairly and defending them. You are saying cheating is not bad.
I understand you got a free camera from them, but you are talking crap and its making you look like a fool.
I am not going into biased discussion nor have time for it. Just by reading your posts makes me want to pull my hear out. So please, stop doing that.
 

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Okay Nate with all due respect, it seams to me you are leaning towards SJCAM unfairly and defending them. You are saying cheating is not bad.
I understand you got a free camera from them, but you are talking crap and its making you look like a fool.
I am not going into biased discussion nor have time for it.
Last time I checked I bought my own cameras with my own money unless SJCam is sending me cameras I'm not getting. And what you're saying doesn't make sense. If I were getting cameras for free what would be the point of getting crappy cameras, even if they were free? Also in my videos (which obviously you don't watch) I was one of the first to point out the flaws in the 1.2.2 firmware when I did my film "eXcelerated". By the way you should probably Google me before you look like fool. I am an avid and known indy filmmaker.

I simply pointed out to you SJCam stated the 4K was interpolated (meaning not cheating as they were honest about what was being sold). You have no good answer for how that is wrong. If they were trying to fool people by saying it was real 4K then you'd have an argument I'd agree with. But indeed the interpolated 4k reads as 4k where it is needed. Also I just did a whole video about how 4k is used in videography today and pointed out both the good and bad with the camera. You should really do some research before you run off at the mouth accusing people of being bribed with free cameras. And for the record anything I do get free for review is stuff I already know to be good. If it's not good I say it. You may want to watch my vids before make unfounded statements.

-Nate


 
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Pavle

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Here goes...
4k 2.jpg 4k 1.jpg 2.jpg3.jpg 4.jpg 5.jpg 6.jpg
9.jpg 8.jpg10.jpg

This is just info from sjcam official channel, site , etc. I can go on and on, but I do not think its necessary.

Just because you are an indy filmmaker does not mean you are right.

It is because of online communities that SJCAM actually put interpolated in their product description few weeks ago.

This is clearly false information that is their point as well. Sorry, but only a blind person can not see this.

Now, since you are a famous filmmaker, can you tell me how can a normal person not think that this is not a 4K action camera?

When a person defends a manufacturer without any sensible reason, to me that person is biased.
I apologize for my manners, but your posts were annoying.

I am unsubscribing from this topic, and not going to get into discussion with you.

There is no "interpolated 4K, unreal 4K, 4K fake" Either you have a 4K capable product or not. If you do not have it, do not advertise it as such, as it is dishonest. Hopefully they will learn a lesson. The thing is SJCAM is not yet a another Chinese brand. They have reputation, but with things like this they are ruining it.
 
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Mtz

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Edit: whoa! @Pavle was few minutes faster than me, but we think the same!

I never made some marketing school and the following are my ideas, so I can be wrong...
From day one store listing always stated that it was interpolated: SJ5000x Store Listing
From day one only on some places
SJ5000x 4K.jpg Fake SJ5000X 4K.jpg
Some resellers omitted that part or did not know to list it
Gearbest SJ500X.jpg Banggood sj5000x.jpg
This is a joke. They are listing what you gave them. If some thing is there (like „4K” in the title of the product) is because was added not omitted.

In long time such sellers will lose the competition, but they have more changes compared to a manufacturer because sellers have thousands of products for sale, but the manufacturers are living because of one product brand. For the manufacturers the life is more short because of lies compared to resellers because resellers will say: Sorry, we was cheated by SJCam about the specs, buy a GitUp from us because they are honest! And many buyers will say: „Wow, what a honest seller, I will buy more from him”. But afer 2-3 bad experiences with that seller the buyer will lose the confidence in that seller.

Manufacturers should think to this before releasing a product which is containing poor components or lies in specs, just make this test any of you:
Go to a supermarket and buy some deo-spray for example. Try the smell from few of them. At the end maybe you will buy one, the Z product, even you are not complete satisfied. But! If brand X or Y at the first time you tested it and disliked it, next time when you will go to the supermarket you will not smell again X or Y because you know it stinks, you will buy the Z, or other product from Z or try another A B C brands.
When selling a camera with a bad microphone, maybe because want to release the camera very fast, without testing it a manufacturer should replace all that cameras. If not that buyer will be like product X or Y and in the future will buy the Z just because there is competition. And I like competition because SJCam started to listen people after too many time of ignoring them. Their next step is to launch tested products and stop lying because they are not some obscure manufacturer since the day somebody invented the SJCam name just to show a quality SJ4000 compared to low quality clones.

Congratulations to @tgrdrgrss which is honest and modified the title according to the truth. Not all members from here are correct with DCT users and keep the lies of the manufacturers, like @Sunny did here.

Congratulations also for the @sjcam_official which is using 2K in the title of SJ5000X Elite on our forum, compared to RCGroups forum from October 26,2015 (day one, remember?). Maybe we deserve more respect than other forum users?

Fake SJ5000X 4K.jpg

enjoy,
Mtz
 
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Nathyn Masters

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Here goes...
View attachment 19834 View attachment 19833 View attachment 19832View attachment 19835 View attachment 19836 View attachment 19837 View attachment 19838
View attachment 19840 View attachment 19839View attachment 19841

This is just info from sjcam official channel, site , etc. I can go on and on, but I do not think its necessary.

Just because you are an indy filmmaker does not mean you are right.

It is because of online communities that SJCAM actually put interpolated in their product description few weeks ago.

This is clearly false information that is their point as well. Sorry, but only a blind person can not see this.

Now, since you are a famous filmmaker, can you tell me how can a normal person not think that this is not a 4K action camera?

When a person defends a manufacturer without any sensible reason, to me that person is biased.
I apologize for my manners, but your posts were annoying.

I am unsubscribing from this topic, and not going to get into discussion with you.

There is no "interpolated 4K, unreal 4K, 4K fake" Either you have a 4K capable product or not. If you do not have it, do not advertise it as such, as it is dishonest. Hopefully they will learn a lesson. The thing is SJCAM is not yet a another Chinese brand. They have reputation, but with things like this they are ruining it.
Well, like it or not there is interpolation. Interpolation is a fairly common practice. Sony got in trouble a few years ago for not being honest about 24p interpolation. Canon's 24p video cameras originally did interpolated 24p, but it functioned just like true 24p. And people had no problem using it, as it was one of the most famous cameras doing 24p. And these were the major cameras (costing over two grand) and they were honest about the interpolation even though they didn't have to be. If your argument is that they didn't say interpolated every time they said 4k, that's a silly argument. It's called due dilligence. I went to the site, read all the info and carefully considered was it right for my needs.

And being an indy filmmaker doesn't make me right, simply knowing the tech makes me right. Yes they advertise 4k, just like Canon advertised 24p and if they're honest about it and the filmmaker/user finds it satisfactory then that's all that is needed.

When a person defends a manufacturer without any sensible reason, to me that person is biased.
I apologize for my manners, but your posts were annoying.
No apology needed. My post are common sense, I'm used to people losing arguments to me.

I am unsubscribing from this topic, and not going to get into discussion with you.
Yes, because you're generally wrong. Good day sir.

-Nate
 

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You provided zero proof to justify these acts. Just because someone is doing it, or used to do it, it makes it OK? Are you out of your mind?

How can you even consider yourself an independent filmmaker? You are aware that you are trying to justify lies and cheating of customers? What kind of a person does that?

Because of that kind of attitude big brands make money of stupid people. Because of that attitude bunch of other thing happen in the world. But lets not go into that.

Luckily this forum has great community and information and we try to put as much honest and unbiased info out there.
You provided just bull**** here, where as we provided clear evidence.

"And being an indy filmmaker doesn't make me right, simply knowing the tech makes me right. Yes they advertise 4k, just like Canon advertised 24p and if they're honest about it and the filmmaker/user finds it satisfactory then that's all that is needed."
Your posts just show how little you know about tech.

"Yes, because you're generally wrong. Good day sir."
Prove it.

"No apology needed. My post are common sense, I'm used to people losing arguments to me."
Common sense to you maybe, bunch of bull**** for me.
 
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tgrdrgrss

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Whoa guys, I think we are all adults here who can talk or argue with attitude. No need to be calling names.
For myself, I'm highly disappointed when I found out that 4K is not really 4K. Guess I didn't read all of the fine print.

But from that mistakes, I moved on. I'm still using my SJ5000Xe (that's how I called it) on a daily basis, though not on 4K (what's the point on using something when the result is a fake? That's my thought).

Besides the SJ5000Xe I also owned the SJ5000+ (1.5" screen).
And happily to report that SJCAM gave the same features as the latest SJ5000+ model (1.54" screen on v3.3). And that is because WE told them to do that.
Previously, they were gonna drop the support for the older batch of SJ5000+.

From here on, instead of talking about the past mistakes, why don't we, as a community, keep pointing out what SJCAM could improve? By giving suggestion and pointing out bugs etc.
I know the point of buying a products and demanding it to performs as it was promised is all about being a good customer is, but if you are not happy (for being cheated), then just leave it and just move on to another brand. But if are not happy and wanting other or future customers to learn from your mistakes, feel free to point out all the bad things of such brand or series. Again, no need to attack fellow members.

Hope you guys have a great day.
 

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But Youtube will read it as 4k and give it a better bitrate when people watch it on their screens. That's where it comes in handy.

-Nate
...nothing to do with sjcam gives all the people who want to buy a cheap 4K camera false information driving the marketing. Also with advertising the preorder, be one of the first with a cheap "elite 4K cam"!
Now everbody with preorder first batch has the big audio hardware problem. Ok the audio from 2nd batch is not much better.
More bitrate makes 3k far from being a true 4k!!!
Thats also fake like promises sjcam the customers gave!
I hope sjcam stands to its mistakes and responsive to the wishes of fooled users making camera quality better to make the best of unsatisfactory situation for both parties!
...In this sense with each other and not against each other...
gente
 

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You provided zero proof to justify these acts. Just because someone is doing it, or used to do it, it makes it OK? Are you out of your mind?

How can you even consider yourself an independent filmmaker? You are aware that you are trying to justify lies and cheating of customers? What kind of a person does that?
Again, they didn't cheat anyone. They gave specs everyone could read. No they're fault people can't read. Funny that I knew it was interpolated from their specs. How is that justifying anything. I read you didn't. Big justification there.

Because of that kind of attitude big brands make money of stupid people. Because of that attitude bunch of other thing happen in the world. But lets not go into that.
Reread your quote: " big brands make money of STUPID people." That's your quote. Basically you believe the company has to make sure the person reading or buying isn't stupid. Seriously?

Luckily this forum has great community and information and we try to put as much honest and unbiased info out there.
You provided just bull**** here, where as we provided clear evidence.
I

So evidence of what? You sound like a fool. All the evidence was even in things showcased here. The term "interpolated" was used on their site in the specs.

Common sense to you maybe, bunch of bull**** for me.
Fine you want proof. Here it is. A history of interpolation. These are all the cameras that used some form of interpolation.

Canon XL2 (professional ENG Camcorder) 24p interpolation
Canon XHa1 (professional ENG Camcorder) 24p interpolation
Canon HV20 (Consumer) 24p interpolation
Canon HV30 (Consumer) 24p interpolation
Canon HV40 (Consumer) 24p interpolation
Sony HDR-FX1 (Prosumer and mind you Sony owns the 24p license and still used interpolation and blatantly lied about it)

The Panasonics and JVC cameras had true 24p. At this time the rest were interpolated. Sony only did 24p in highend cameras.

4K Ultra HD Cameras (Considered 4k but not)

Samsung NX500 (one I plane to get)
Samsung NX1
Samsung
Sony FDR-AX100 (Consumer)
Sony FDR-AX1
Panasonic HC-x1000E
Panasonic GH4
Panasonic vx870k

And these are (just like the others) the major brands. The term 4k Ultra HD was simply made up to basically mean "It's kind of 4k... close enough." I think I'm done here. Do the research, you have Google it's easy. Most cameras are not doing real 4k. Black Magic, RED and ARRI do. Most do not. SJCam was quite clear that it was interpolated 4K. Now if you say they were lying and you guys forced them to add "interpolated" then fine. But every since I first heard about this camera I knew it was interpolated, I also know the Git2 and Firefly 6s are also interpolated. Again these are the big sellers and they're all interpolated. I just want to see what working with 4k will be like and I can do that with the SJ5000x until I get my Samsung (still not real 4k). It fits my purposes and I have every right to buy what I think will help me after doing my due diligence. If you asked SJCam was it true 4k and they said yes and we found out it was not, I'd be on your side. I personally did not experience that. If you want to keep saying I'm defending them based on my experience, then yes, I guess I am. Based on my experience the camera works well and does as it's supposed to.

-Nate
 

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Here is a 16x9 image:
16X9.jpg

Here is the 16x9 image interpolated to 3840x2160:
3840X2160resampled.jpg

Here is the 16x9 image simply resized (to preserve sharp lines) to 3840x2160:
3840X2160notresampled.jpg

Both of the large images are truly 3840x2160, 4K image files. 240 times the resolution of the first image. Or is it 57600 (240^2) times the resolution? Depends how you want to spin it.
But the image content is not 4K, or higher resolution at all in any meaningful sense.

In my opinion any sub-4K image dumped into a 4K container format is still sub-4K. It should never be described as simply "4K". Not once. Interpolation is trickery, it cannot create information that wasn't there to start. Advertising interpolated figures without specifying the word "interpolated" every single time is potentially misleading, and some people will inevitably be mislead. Having it tucked away in small print - or only having a minority of the descriptions fully accurate, which has a similar effect - is not honest.

I'm not having a go at anyone in particular, just saying how I feel on the matter. How many people got suckered into the whole "HD-Ready" terminology? This kind of stuff annoys me.
 

Nathyn Masters

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I don't know that it was mentioned much at all before someone called them out on it
I can only speak from my experience and it was always stated that it was interpolated when I first saw it back in September or October. But that's all I can say.

-Nate
 

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I can only speak from my experience and it was always stated that it was interpolated when I first saw it back in September or October. But that's all I can say.

-Nate
it did get updated, there was very little reference of it originally to the point where most people had no idea it was interpolated, the info has been improved since but I'd say there are still people that aren't aware or even know the difference, they are not alone, most of these manufacturers have been promoting their cameras as 4k with little real detail about what that actually means
 
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tgrdrgrss

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@Nathyn Masters Let's just face it, SJCAM DID lied on their first listings on SJ5000X Elite product page.
They DIDN'T said anything about interpolation at first, since it was only added later.
That's a hard truth that even myself found it hard to believe. Just reread what @Mtz @jokiin and even @Pavle wrote.
The facts that you gave proof on other brands that did the same practice are not great arguments.
In here, from my experience, people always want the truth and always find the truth.

Last thing, about this all 4K thingy. Let's just make a consensus: (even though it is already standardized)
Real 4K is = 4096 × 2304 pixel
Ultra HD is = 3840 × 2160 pixel

From there, SJ5000X Elite can only 'do' 2880 x 2160 pixel video, and it's actually interpolated.
Done?
 

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@Nathyn Masters It is pointless to continue to discuss when you clearly do not understand the point here. I can continue to pull words out of the context, just like you do, but instead, here is my final post about this. I do not want to waste my time telling you what is right and what is wrong, you look like a person who is smart enough to know that.

The point here is not if they put "interpolated" in the specs. They also put it into a product description on their site after we as a community put a big of pressure on their representative here.

The point is, it is not fair to push 4K (and anything else that is not true) as a selling point into people's face. You can put 4K into headline, since everyone reads headline.

Yesterday it was 12 megapixels image interpolation. Today its false advertising of "4K". What will happen tomorrow?

Do we as consumers need to put up with lying? If you publicly say "YES ITS OKAY", you are supporting unfair business practice.

Since you have SJ4000, go read the specs. Does it say perhaps that images are not true 12 megapixels? NO IT DOES NOT!

Things like this ruin the reputation of a brand.

Just because someone else is interpolating FPS, does not justify this. I really do not understand how your arguments can be : other brands are doing /did unfair business...
(by the way I googled some of the cameras you listed, none has 24p in headline)

You are not seeing a big picture. Most of people buying these cheap cameras are not tech savvy, believe it or not. For you its okay. Perhaps you do not even use 4K, or it does the job, which is fine. But you are only speaking for yourself. I am speaking for all tech-savvy and not so tech-savvy people who are just getting their first action camera. Of course I knew it was interpolated. Before I buy a camera I check image sensor, processor etc. I do not even read camera's spec. But do you really think people do this?

Honest, unbiased information is important. Justifying unfair business practice is not good for this community. Its not good for future products. Its not good for manufacturer and its not good for consumers. End of story.

Don't think I hate SJCAM. I don't. I actually thing that feedback this community here provides is insane value and all manufacturers should get most out of it and improve their products.
 
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For me is hard to believe that after posting screenshots with the SJCam lies a normal user still can tell the same lies as them.
4K is wrote by all manufacturers just for selling reasons and not giving a sh#t to the buyer.
@Pavle maybe you or me, or somebody else we will make some YouTube videos called something like
All 2015 4K cheap cameras are fake
Of course showing cameras pictures with all liars. More videos, better for buyers and spread them in our blogs and forums.

I read somewhere on Internet that SJCam will launch a new camera, M20. Can we start betting that it will contain the 4K name? Of course is possible they will try to write somewhere about interpolation hoping the users will not see or not understand what is that and still buy the fake 4K camera.

Now SJCam is in big marketing trouble because everyone is expecting at least a 4K and not a 2K camera.
Is not easy to come on the right way after going on the lies way.
My bet is that they will advertise the M20 as 4K.

enjoy,
Mtz
 
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