SJCam SJ5000x Elite Rattle

Nigel

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Again, I would expect a high quality company to adhere to the standards of business in the country it sells its products, not its own. You know how many products are sold in the USA that are made outside the country? It would be utter chaos if each of those companies all stuck to their own country's policies regarding warranties.
Not convinced that is valid. SJCAM are not selling their products in the USA, they are being imported into the USA by a USA company, presumably B&H and sold by B&H, it should be up to the importer and retailers to ensure that local standards of business are adhered to and if that requires that the importer deals with a 1 year warrantee then they should do so. SJCAM don't appear to be making it difficult for the importer to provide the warrantee.

I don't think it is quite that simple though, I know of several companies that simply do not deal with the USA, either because it is too much effort to comply with regulations or because their business insurance would dramatically increase so making it not worthwhile.
 
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Not convinced that is valid. SJCAM are not selling their products in the USA, they are being imported into the USA by a USA company, presumably B&H and sold by B&H, it should be up to the importer and retailers to ensure that local standards of business are adhered to and if that requires that the importer deals with a 1 year warrantee then they should do so. SJCAM don't appear to be making it difficult for the importer to provide the warrantee.

I don't think it is quite that simple though, I know of several companies that simply do not deal with the USA, either because it is too much effort to comply with regulations or because their business insurance would dramatically increase so making it not worthwhile.

Frankly, I wouldn't be so presumptuous about how things operate or should operate in the USA, unless you've had significant consumer purchases here. 1-year warranty from the manufacturer is how most of our consumer-oriented business works from all the major non-USA players, including but not limited to companies like Samsung, Sony, OnePlus, Huawei, Asus, etc. It is not Best Buy's duty as to how these companies offer their warranties, and again, arrogant to say it should be otherwise. This isn't the UK, and that's not how it operates here. That is fine if that is how things are in the UK, and I don't presume to tell you in the UK, manufacturers should cover their products - so I don't know why you are suggesting it should be otherwise in the USA.

And unless you are arguing semantics, you are incorrect regarding where SJCAM is selling their products - they DO sell them to the USA, as they are telling you to purchase it from their website. They do lie about the value of the goods on these imported items, however. And again:

Basically the point is this - if you live in the USA, just know that SJCAM will not warranty your product unless you buy it from their website. And even if you do buy it from their website, expect that they charge you for the repair, the shipping, and that it will take 30 days to get your camera back.

whether this is "obvious" to you or not, I don't care. This is for those who it isn't obvious to, which I anticipate will be primarily purchasers in the USA.

And all of this is aside from the point that I've received more than one faulty camera from SJCAM.
 

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Not convinced that is valid. SJCAM are not selling their products in the USA, they are being imported into the USA by a USA company, presumably B&H and sold by B&H, it should be up to the importer and retailers to ensure that local standards of business are adhered to and if that requires that the importer deals with a 1 year warrantee then they should do so. SJCAM don't appear to be making it difficult for the importer to provide the warrantee.

I don't think it is quite that simple though, I know of several companies that simply do not deal with the USA, either because it is too much effort to comply with regulations or because their business insurance would dramatically increase so making it not worthwhile.
Have you seen the contracts between SJCam, B&H Photo Video and any intermediaries, especially as regards warranty?
 

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Have you seen the contracts between SJCam, B&H Photo Video and any intermediaries, especially as regards warranty?
No, but it is always the case that the importer is responsible for local law, doesn't matter if the importer is owned by the manufacturer, a distributer, a retailer, or the end customer. If you personally import a camera then you have to deal with the local laws, USA laws have no jurisdiction over companies or people in other countries.
 

TeriTerryTarry

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No, but it is always the case that the importer is responsible for local law, doesn't matter if the importer is owned by the manufacturer, a distributer, a retailer, or the end customer. If you personally import a camera then you have to deal with the local laws, USA laws have no jurisdiction over companies or people in other countries.
Nor do other countries' laws have jurisdiction in the US. If B&H and SJCam have signed a US contract to implement the warranty by having SJCam responsible after 30 days then that is their binding agreement.
 

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Nor do other countries' laws have jurisdiction in the US. If B&H and SJCam have signed a US contract to implement the warranty by having SJCam responsible after 30 days then that is their binding agreement.
If SJCam had signed an agreement of that sort then they would be providing free repairs to end customers in the USA, the posts above indicate that they haven't. If a USA company wants to buy cameras from SJCAM then I would expect SJCAM to set the terms and conditions and choose which law to use, it is them that has the cameras, they don't have to sell them to the USA.
 

TeriTerryTarry

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If SJCam had signed an agreement of that sort then they would be providing free repairs to end customers in the USA, the posts above indicate that they haven't.
Not quite. The posts above only indicate that SJCam is not providing warranty service within the one year warranty. It indicates nothing about any agreement.
If a USA company wants to buy cameras from SJCAM then I would expect SJCAM to set the terms and conditions and choose which law to use, it is them that has the cameras, they don't have to sell them to the USA.
Your expectation might be right be we don't know that for sure. I doubt that SJCam would set the terms and conditions of any contract unilaterally but I don't know that because I haven't seen any agreements.
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Nor do other countries' laws have jurisdiction in the US. If B&H and SJCam have signed a US contract to implement the warranty by having SJCam responsible after 30 days then that is their binding agreement.

you could bet money on there being no such agreement
 

TeriTerryTarry

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A contract that can't be enforced is not a legally binding contract and serves no purpose
How do you know a contract between B&H and SJCam is unenforceable? Have you seen the contracts?

I'm not an expert on international trade or contracts. I don't know if B&H has a duly authorized legal representative in China that has signature authority for contracts. I don't know if SJCam has a duly authorized legal representative in the US that has signature authority for contracts. I don't know what T&C's of any contract between a Chinese company and an American one are enforceable and which ones aren't. I don't know what implementation guidance has been negotiated between the US and China regarding any bi-lateral or multi-lateral trade treaties, or what the established case history is in disputes between companies like B&H and SJCam, their legal representative and intermediaries. Most especially I haven't seen any contracts between B&H and SJCam so I don't know where they were signed, whether one or the other or both countries have legal jurisdiction or to what extent. If anybody has this information I'll gladly defer to them.

I can say that B&H's warranty policy is standard in the US with products produced within and without the US and that the policy is spelled out on their website. It's not something special or unique to B&H or to SJCam. Other US retailers handle warranties the same way. There are variations among the 50 states, some have more consumer protections than others and certain implied warranties are enforceable. It has been that way for decades so I would guess that the legal case history is well established but I don't know that for sure.

It's important not to loose sight of DCT member kyoo's other point and that is that his SJCam's were defective. My experience was that two out of four SJCam's I purchased were defective. Yet in over four decades of purchasing consumer electronics manufactured and/or assembled in various countries by companies based in various countries, but especially in the US, Japan and Korea, I've only had a few products, not 50 percent like SJCam's, fail within the warranty period and a few more fail beyond it. Most became obsolete due to advancing technology. Some still work after 20 years.

Speculation that B&H is failing in their responsibilities is just that - speculation - unless there is proof to the contrary.
 

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It's not just about who can endorse a contract, I'm not taking sides about who or what is right or wrong but the legal system in China would do nothing for a US company trying to enforce a contract with a Chinese company, it would be a useless piece of paper

I have no love for SJCAM at all but in this situation they aren't the ones to blame
 

TeriTerryTarry

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It's not just about who can endorse a contract, I'm not taking sides about who or what is right or wrong but the legal system in China would do nothing for a US company trying to enforce a contract with a Chinese company, it would be a useless piece of paper

I have no love for SJCAM at all but in this situation they aren't the ones to blame
To me that is not the issue. I don't know where the contract was signed, do you? But even so, the failings of the Chinese legal system to enforce what is otherwise a binding contract doesn't mean it's not binding and doesn't mean that SJCam isn't obligated, it just means there's nothing you can do about it.
 

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You're assuming there's a contract, if there is it would need to be between two Chinese companies or it would be useless anyway, do B&H have a Chinese company to be able to enforce the supposed contract?

It's all semantics anyway as having end users send products to China for service never works as a system as it's not something the government there supports, product coming into the country is very strictly controlled and it could not work with any reliability

There's some tomfoolery going on to pass the buck here but don't assume the retailer to be the victim in all of this
 

TeriTerryTarry

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You're assuming there's a contract, if there is it would need to be between two Chinese companies or it would be useless anyway, do B&H have a Chinese company to be able to enforce the supposed contract?

It's all semantics anyway as having end users send products to China for service never works as a system as it's not something the government there supports, product coming into the country is very strictly controlled and it could not work with any reliability

There's some tomfoolery going on to pass the buck here but don't assume the retailer to be the victim in all of this
As I said, I don't know if B&H has a duly authorized representative, or even a wholly owned company of their own, in China. Does SJCam have such an entity in the USA? I don't know. Again I ask, how can we know where the purchase order was signed, under what jurisdiction?

The fact that end users sending products to China doesn't work, is not supported by the government and is strictly controlled doesn't mean that just such an arrangement was not agreed to. Indeed, I sent something back to China I purchased from GeekBuying. For that matter, how do we know that SJCam did not present evidence to B&H that they were planning to establish warranty service capabilities within the US, and that B&H relied on such presentations when they agreed to sell SJCam's, but SJCam hasn't implemented it yet? I AM NOT BY ANY MEANS saying that is what happened. I'm saying it's as unknowable to those of us not party to the contract as is the contract itself. We don't know any of the details so we can't say for sure.

The victim in all this is neither B&H nor SJCam, it's kyoo.
 

TeriTerryTarry

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agree 100%, just be careful who you blame for his problems though as things don't work the way you might reasonably expect
That goes for both of us, right jokiin?
 

jokiin

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That goes for both of us, right jokiin?

well I was certainly unaware how easy it is for a US retailer to get out of supporting a purchase, seems very wrong but I guess you guys are used to that

that doesn't alter how things work in China though, shifting the blame onto others just because you have T&C's that say so doesn't make it so, that part is very dodgy

make no mistake, I'm no fan of SJCAM and what they do, until recently though I held a much higher opinion of B&H, seems if you want to buy something from them and you have issues with the product in that initial 30 day window the service is first class, if you miss that 30 day window of opportunity though you're pretty much on your own then, not great for the consumer as they are the ones that suffer
 
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