SJCam SJ5000x Elite Rattle

TeriTerryTarry

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well I was certainly unaware how easy it is for a US retailer to get out of supporting a purchase, seems very wrong but I guess you guys are used to that

that doesn't alter how things work in China though, shifting the blame onto others just because you have T&C's that say so doesn't make it so, that part is very dodgy

make no mistake, I'm no fan of SJCAM and what they do, until recently though I held a much higher opinion of B&H, seems if you want to buy something from them and you have issues with the product in that initial 30 day window the service is first class, if you miss that 30 day window of opportunity though you're pretty much on your own then, not great for the consumer as they are the ones that suffer
It's a matter of perspective, isn't it? Look how easy it is for a manufacturer to get out of supporting their products, or more importantly of making products that aren't defective in the first place.

How things work in China? So you know for a fact that the jurisdiction of the applicable contractual agreements between B&H, SJCam and their intermediaries is China?
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
The product comes out of China, if they purchased from some middle man distributor they should direct the customers to them for service
 

TeriTerryTarry

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if they purchased from some middle man distributor
Did they? So perhaps a third party, one that's neither SJCam nor B&H, is supposed to handle warranty issues, but under privity of contract with whom? Do you know exactly the T&C's of contracts between SJCam, B&H and their intermediaries?
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Did they? So perhaps a third party, one that's neither SJCam nor B&H, is supposed to handle warranty issues, but under privity of contract with whom? Do you know exactly the T&C's of contracts between SJCam, B&H and their intermediaries?
I'm not the one that has been proposing that a contract for repairs even exists, the response from SJCAM suggests it's not the case

regardless if B&H tell you to go to the manufacturer after 30 days and the manufacturer knows nothing of any such arrangement shouldn't the onus be on B&H to sort that out, surely the consumer is not expected to go chasing up who may or may not have repair contracts, seems all too easy to wipe your hands of any problems if there is zero help for customers post 30 days
 

tgrdrgrss

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Wow, I didn't realize that things would get heated up here.

Btw, SJCAM doesn't have representatives in the US, as stated here, http://sjcamhd.com/international-contacts/

As for warranty, it is also clearly stated here, http://sjcamhd.com/warranty/

Again, not to blame anyone, especially OP, but this could be a very good lesson for future consumers who are thinking to buy any SJCAM products.
 

TeriTerryTarry

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I submitted this question to SJCam using their online form:

Dear SJCam:

I'm considering the purchase of an SJ4000 WiFi camera. I'm located in the US and would like to purchase the camera from the US seller B&H Photo Video

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1081151-REG/sjcam_sj4000wfs_sj4000_silver_with_wi_fi.html
According to the terms of their return and warranty policy, after 30 days I should deal directly with the manufacturer. If my camera becomes defective after 30 days but within 1 year and it's due to a manufacturing defect, how is the warranty handled? Do I return the camera directly to you in China?

Thank you.

Teri

Their response:

Hi TeriTerryTarry,


Thank you for contacting SJCAM support.

We need to let you know, we can offer a free maintenance to the person who purchase our original SJCAM cameras. But if you did not purchase from our official website store, you need to pay the whole shipping fare for repairing. And we do not offer the fee maintenance to the cameras which were broken by man-made damage. Of course, we can also accept paid maintenance, but we need to charge the value of materials. And now there is not any Repairing Centre in USA , so you have to send the camera back to China for repairing.

Should you have any more questions, do not hesitate to contact us.


Best Regards,

Merlin
SJCAM Support Team
 
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kyoo

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well I was certainly unaware how easy it is for a US retailer to get out of supporting a purchase, seems very wrong but I guess you guys are used to that

that doesn't alter how things work in China though, shifting the blame onto others just because you have T&C's that say so doesn't make it so, that part is very dodgy

make no mistake, I'm no fan of SJCAM and what they do, until recently though I held a much higher opinion of B&H, seems if you want to buy something from them and you have issues with the product in that initial 30 day window the service is first class, if you miss that 30 day window of opportunity though you're pretty much on your own then, not great for the consumer as they are the ones that suffer
again, the only blame I'm putting on SJCAM is the making of a faulty camera. I do suggest that they conform to US standards re: offering warranty, but obviously they are under no obligation to do so. It is not a great position whether you buy it from the retailer or even from SJCAM, where they want you to pay for a warranty repair (??). These posts were simply a notice to consumers in the USA, who may not have known what the policy was.
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
again, the only blame I'm putting on SJCAM is the making of a faulty camera. I do suggest that they conform to US standards re: offering warranty, but obviously they are under no obligation to do so. It is not a great position whether you buy it from the retailer or even from SJCAM, where they want you to pay for a warranty repair (??). These posts were simply a notice to consumers in the USA, who may not have known what the policy was.
they do offer that, if you purchase the camera from them, things change though when someone else purchases the camera from them and then they sell that camera to you, it would be a non issue if there was a distributor of the product in the USA but there isn't, B&H mention import product not coming under their same arrangement so what exactly do they classify as import product if not this?
 
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kyoo

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they do offer that, if you purchase the camera from them, things change though when someone else purchases the camera from them and then they sell that camera to you, it would be a non issue if there was a distributor of the product in the USA but there isn't, B&H mention import product not coming under their same arrangement so what exactly do they classify as import product if not this?
offer what? what I'm saying is, if you are US resident buying from a retailer you do not get a warranty from either the manufacturer (unusual in the USA) or the retailer (common in the USA). I guess I'm confused, what are you arguing in this matter?
 

jokiin

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Too many ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
offer what? what I'm saying is, if you are US resident buying from a retailer you do not get a warranty from either the manufacturer (unusual in the USA) or the retailer (common in the USA). I guess I'm confused, what are you arguing in this matter?
I'm saying SJCAM offer warranty support if you purchase directly from them, you didn't though, you purchased elsewhere

I'm not arguing anything
 
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kyoo

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I'm saying SJCAM offer warranty support if you purchase directly from them, you didn't though, you purchased elsewhere

I'm not arguing anything
ok - no one is saying otherwise.

I'm clarifying that they don't if you purchase through a 3rd party retailer, which USA customers may not realize.
 

TeriTerryTarry

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they do offer that, if you purchase the camera from them, things change though when someone else purchases the camera from them and then they sell that camera to you, it would be a non issue if there was a distributor of the product in the USA but there isn't, B&H mention import product not coming under their same arrangement so what exactly do they classify as import product if not this?
Here is an example of what B&H considers an IMP product:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/36976-GREY/Nikon_1435_NIKKOR_Normal_50mm_f_1_2.html You can click on the word "Imported". This identifies the product as one that is warranted directly by B&H. This was pointed out to me during a chat session with a B&H customer service representative.

I've established by my e-mail with SJCam that they claim to provide warranty support even for cameras not purchased directly from them, albeit at a cost (shipping, etc.) that makes it unfeasible, that B&H identifies the products that they warrant directly, and that the SJCam is not one of those products. So if you purchase an SJCam from B&H, and it fails after 30 days but within a year, and it's due to a manufacturing defect, then your warranty claim is supposed to be handled by SJCam.
 

JooVuu

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It seems like we're going round in circles.

No matter how much you protest and state this is what it is:

  • B&H don't provide more than 30 days warranty on SJCAM products
  • They state the manufacturers do
  • SJCAM clearly state they don't provide warranty on products not purchase from them (annoying and not the best practice, but they state this clearly)
  • B&H should have talked to SJCAM about this - they didn't.
  • SJCAM hold little blame in this, whilst I would not pursue the path they have, they're within their rights to
  • Contracts are worthless in China unless you have a Chinese company (why we're setting one up - at the moment we have a proxy company)
  • You can complain as much as you want, state US regulation, state contracts, state your opinion, but the facts don't change: B&H don't cover you after 30 days, SJCAM don't provide a decent warranty if you don't buy from them.
If people would like to know more about Chinese contracts I'll repeat what @jokiin states...not even worth the email you send unless you have a Chinese company as completely unenforceable. I understand people are pissed and I would be as well but this is really just going round in circles now. You can come at it from whatever angle you want, but the facts and practice will always be the same. I feel very sorry for @kyoo and I'm sure in the future if you have any Chinese or seller questions anyone on here will be happy to answer them, if you have anything specifically just drop me a message and I'll answer as best as I can for you.

Cheers,
 

TeriTerryTarry

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"B&H should have talked to SJCAM about this - they didn't." How do you know?

"Contracts are worthless in China unless you have a Chinese company (why we're setting one up - at the moment we have a proxy company)" This continues to confuse me. In this particular case, how do you know what country has jurisdiction over the contracts? If the contracts were signed under US jurisdiction then the parties to the contract must comply with the applicable T&C's in accordance with US law. I understand that a legally binding US contract might not be enforceable under Chinese law, but that does not invalidate the T&C's if it was signed by a duly authorized representative of SJCam under US law. SJCam and B&H would still need to comply with US law.
 
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kyoo

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It seems like we're going round in circles.

No matter how much you protest and state this is what it is:

  • B&H don't provide more than 30 days warranty on SJCAM products
  • They state the manufacturers do
  • SJCAM clearly state they don't provide warranty on products not purchase from them (annoying and not the best practice, but they state this clearly)
  • B&H should have talked to SJCAM about this - they didn't.
  • SJCAM hold little blame in this, whilst I would not pursue the path they have, they're within their rights to
  • Contracts are worthless in China unless you have a Chinese company (why we're setting one up - at the moment we have a proxy company)
  • You can complain as much as you want, state US regulation, state contracts, state your opinion, but the facts don't change: B&H don't cover you after 30 days, SJCAM don't provide a decent warranty if you don't buy from them.
If people would like to know more about Chinese contracts I'll repeat what @jokiin states...not even worth the email you send unless you have a Chinese company as completely unenforceable. I understand people are pissed and I would be as well but this is really just going round in circles now. You can come at it from whatever angle you want, but the facts and practice will always be the same. I feel very sorry for @kyoo and I'm sure in the future if you have any Chinese or seller questions anyone on here will be happy to answer them, if you have anything specifically just drop me a message and I'll answer as best as I can for you.

Cheers,
?? I think people are misunderstanding. The only wrong SJCAM did here is have low QC for their cameras. They have a poor warranty program, and I am warning people who may not know. Simple as that.

Instead of complaining to SJCAM, I've chosen to warn other people instead. I'm not waiting for SJCAM to fix it - I'm not going to send it to them lol. Not worth my time.
 
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