So how volatile are these little batteries anyway?

[jokiin]

We get asked why batteries are an issue, this demo isn't going to reflect how they're used of course but a good reminder of what can happen if they do fail, perhaps a worse case scenario but there are some volatile chemicals at play here

 

[CheckYourLights]

That's rather scary to watch and think how many devices use batteries like that.

 

[jokiin]

That's rather scary to watch and think how many devices use batteries like that.

you can understand why they have strict policies in place for freight when you see how quickly they go up

 

[Dashmellow]

It is true that these batteries can go up like that but this is a very unrealistic example of a real world situation. The guy intentionally caused a dead internal short by stabbing it with knife, then it began outgasssing through the hole he intentionally made. When the hot mist hits the oxygen in the air it exploded. Also, it is not clear from the video whether the battery was operating the electronics connected to it at the time or dormant.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

While this might be an extreme demo, a little shock and awe doesn't hurt in the make you think department. Supercapacitors are the way to go for DashCam products.

 

[Nigel]

Which was more dangerous, the battery or the knife?

Not many dashcams have a battery that size, looks nearly 10 times the size of a mini 080x battery and the risks increase significantly with increasing size.

It says it was a phone battery, the type people carry around with them all day, drop, sit on, bend, leave sitting in the sun etc and then leave lying around the house or leave busy charging unattended while their owners and family sleep upstairs! We do not hear of actual injuries or deaths caused by them, the knife on the other hand...

 

[Dashmellow]

While this might be an extreme demo, a little shock and awe doesn't hurt in the make you think department. Supercapacitors are the way to go for DashCam products.

Yeah, that's true, but there is so much alarmist stuff on the internet about battery fires and explosions that many come away with the wrong impression. Battery fires, while serious are relatively rare considering how many devices they are in.

 

[Dashmellow]

Which was more dangerous, the battery or the knife?

Not many dashcams have a battery that size, looks nearly 10 times the size of a mini 080x battery and the risks increase significantly with increasing size.

It says it was a phone battery, the type people carry around with them all day, drop, sit on, bend, leave sitting in the sun etc and then leave lying around the house or leave busy charging unattended while their owners and family sleep upstairs! We do not hear of actual injuries or deaths caused by them, the knife on the other hand...

Yesterday, your rant was about guns...so, today it's knives?

 

[Nigel]

Of course supercapacitors can explode too, but they can do the job properly:

 

[jokiin]

it's about the volatility of the chemicals involved, nobody said the 080x's were all going to blow up anytime soon and sure you can blow up a cap too, by hooking it up in reverse polarity

a quick Google will reveal plenty of instances of injuries from the batteries letting go, it's not to say it's common, just that it happens

 

[kamkar]

When the huge fuses on the electric propellers blew on the ferry i worked on it sounded like some one dropped a handgranade in the thruster room.

cant remember if they where 600 or 800 Amps, they where square in shape and around 100x100x40 mm

Ferrys had 2 thrusters in each end, so we dident turn around ever just sailed back and forth.

This ferry design.

 

[GJHS]

it's about the volatility of the chemicals involved, nobody said the 080x's were all going to blow up anytime soon and sure you can blow up a cap too, by hooking it up in reverse polarity

a quick Google will reveal plenty of instances of injuries from the batteries letting go, it's not to say it's common, just that it happens

What surprised me is the most dangerous part is breathing in the gas after it explodes. A short exposure will lead to permanent lung and tissue damage.

 

[Gibson99]

Of course supercapacitors can explode too, but they can do the job properly:

funny how the skinny orange ones that looked like firecrackers actually went off like them too.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

The video shown here says future Aluminum batteries will be safer

https://dashcamtalk.com/forum/index.php?threads/Soon,-We-Might-Be-Using-Aluminum-Batteries.10750/

 

[mel]

Of course supercapacitors can explode too, but they can do the job properly:

When I was a kid, I was in the kitchen about 8-10 feet or so from a hotpoint washing machine when its mains filter detonated ( basically a very large electrolytic capacitor encapsulated along with an inductor in its aluminium can with a bolt thread coming out of its base, that attached it to the back panel) . Unlike modern electrolytics, the can didn't have a weak point in the base, so it was a very loud blast, I was deaf in one ear for about half an hour, apart from a ringing sound, and it felt like I'd been slapped really, really hard across the right side of my face, plus it let off lots of, presumably toxic fumes (I'd guess it would probably have been a PCB electrolyte).

 

[SawMaster]

Lithium batteries can be very dangerous, yet we all use them and would not like having them go away, perhaps doubling the size and weight of our beloved portable electronics to get similar power results from safer technologies. When used properly, lithium battery accidents are rare but accidents happen to things so lithium battery failure effects must be considered. They are highly efficient incendiary devices reaching as much as 1200 deg. F (about 650 C) and very hard to extinguish once burning. In a single-cell or parallel configuration, their charging and discharging management is easy and relatively safe, but in series-wired usage the weakest cell gets overworked and it takes a sophisticated charger to detect and control this. Many cheap chargers are well below this level of competency. Lithium batteries can appear OK now and be toast a few minutes later as their undamaged failure mode is a run-away reaction process which takes time to occur. With lithium cells it is mandatory to use ONLY the manufacturer-approved chargers and charging methods- nothing else is safe. With most lithium powered devices the normal failure mode is degraded battery capacity until it won't power the device any longer- no big deal.

In a dashcam, battery failure is not something to worry much about. You will quickly notice it as the plastic camera case begins to heat and melt, you will smell the hot plastic, see the problem, and you will have time to stop the car and handle the crisis. It takes many seconds for a run-away lithium cell to go from hot enough to melt plastic to actually being on fire. The laptop or tablet PC in your back seat is far more dangerous a device with it's series-wired cells and lots more lithium involved. When solidly confined, a burning lithium battery can explode so if you enclose a lithium powered device like a dsahcam it must have lots of large ventilation designed into the housing, or the housing much be weak enough to vent before pressure builds. A few small holes is not enough, as burning lithium cells produce a huge volume of gasses almost instantly- it's almost like smokeless gunpowder which burns unconfined but explodes when confined.

When physically damaged like the videos show things do get spectacular almost instantly, but even in a serious car accident such damage to the battery itself is unlikely with a dashcam, less so with the laptop in the back seat and far less so in EV and Hybrid-electric cars. Should the worst ever happen to you, in the early stages of a run-away lithium battery failure you may be able to remove the device from the area using something heat-hesitant- NOT your bare hand unless you want 3rd degree burns. You have only a few seconds (maybe 10-15 seconds) to do this. If it's too late for that evacuate the area and call for help. If evacuation isn't possible ventilate the area and get everyone upwind of the fumes. While it won't stop the battery fire itself, large volumes of water is the prescribed method of fighting lithium fires in lieu of specialized foams made for this purpose. The water reduces the combustion temperature somewhat and may prevent surrounding items from igniting. Stay upwind and avoid the fumes!

You're at least a hundred times more likely to get struck be lightning than to even see a lithium battery fire in person, much less experience one yourself. Use the right charger, avoid physically damaging the cells, and stay indoors during thunderstorms to avoid problems.

 

[Street Guardian USA]

Wow check out this ddpai M6 battery explosion and full camera melt down.
@jokiin shared this offline, wanted to share here as well:

It was only 21C/70F outside as well.
http://club.m.autohome.com.cn/bbs/thread-c-117-45093350-1.html?from=singlemessage&isappinstalled=0

The following is translated to English:


Will explode tachograph, please buy with caution
For security, bought a driving record, the result it is the most secure. So in the fall of such a temperature is not high season, a time to eat a meal exploded. Reminded owners attention, careful to buy this product.



Products: stare stare beat M6 tachograph

Phenomenon: Explosion

When: Today, 12:00 -1 point

Location: Golden Resources Mall parking lot



Front position: back to the sun

Weather: sunny

External temperature: 21 degrees

Interior temperature: not measured, but should not be high.



Buy Date: July 2015



Around 12:00 Shijijinyuan dinner with friends in the car parked in the front parking lot Shijijinyuan back to the sun direction.

Results o'clock meal ready to leave, got in the car, an acrid burning smell of leather, and quickly looked around, nobody arson, in the control seat looked around, there is no problem, usually do not smoke , the car did not lighter, how there is such a strong flavor, and then double-check the results looked up and stare stare shoot exploding melting.

Fortunately, dinner time is not long, in time back to the car in time, otherwise the consequences could be disastrous. Otherwise, how do cause burning vehicle, causing the vehicle to cause combustion safety around the vehicle and the people how to do? The explosion caused the process of moving the occupants burns or eye bounced staff how to do? Eyes bounced personnel cause an accident how to do? This stuff is terrible.

It will explode tachograph, for their own personal and property safety, the majority of owners buy with caution.

 

[jokiin]

the owner of the camera is warning others not to buy this model but its misguided advice, it's not that this model is inherently flawed, this could happen with any camera with a battery

 

[kuoh]

Also any other lithium ion battery based devices, like a GPS, bluetooth speaker, phone or tablet. Here's the result of a recent attempt to "de-puff" my 3 year old Galaxy S4 battery. It did take some doing to puncture the protective metal envelope, so it's not all that easy. This is a 2600 mAh battery, while the batteries in my previous dashcams and BT speakers were in the range of 100-300 mAh and physically much smaller. It's hard to see clearly from the pictures above, but that battery looks like it could be 1000 mAh or larger.

KuoH

... it's not that this model is inherently flawed, this could happen with any camera with a battery

 

[jokiin]

It's hard to see clearly from the pictures above, but that battery looks like it could be 1000 mAh or larger.

KuoH

260mAh