Sound - Invasion of privacy

[jonny8888]

Do insurance companies require sound? I can't imagine so as the video is what they are after. I have recently had a dashcam installed and my boss has enabled sound and won't disable it. It's a HUGE invasion of privacy and surely against the law?

I have private discussions with my family and friends (legally, on hands free) and absolutely refuse to allow that. Also, would it not be illegal as I listen to mp3s and podcasts and you're not allowed to record them?

 

[jokiin]

illegal if he recorded the sound without your knowledge

 

[jonny8888]

Well they didn't tell me it was enabled when it went in, but I guess I now know by seeing the icon on the cam. I don't think I'd be able to really got legal with that, nor do I want to as that wouldn't really make sense.. Even if I know, surely it's illegal? CCTV has a clear rule that you can't record audio unless there's a VERY legitimate reason.

 

[jokiin]

local laws may vary but you'll likely find they are quite within their rights to record audio provided you're aware of it

 

[boilers]

You've come to the wrong place to voice dissent about recording things in the public sphere.

 

[arcticfire]

We've got audio enabled in the dash cams in our trucks because the drivers interact with our customers.

It's a two way street because it allows us to investigate if there's a complaint that the driver was rude or threatening but it also works the other way and can prove their innocence.

We discourage personal calls whilst driving because even with hands free it distracts them which can be seen when reviewing the footage, they drop into the inside lane, slow right down, brake late, miss turnings etc.

If they need to make personal calls they can do so outside of the truck during their break. If it's an emergency then it's not a problem but we have also reminded them that we don't just review footage for the sake of it, only if there's an incident to call for it. Besides nobody here has the time to be trawling through hours of footage for fun.

Obviously this is for our type of setup and not necessary applicable to other types of businesses.

 

[Nigel]

If the vehicle is your workplace then you should treat it as any other workplace. If you work in an office then you should expect conversations with family to be overheard and they may be recorded although you should be made aware that surveillance is in use if it is, a company vehicle shouldn't be any different.

If the vehicle can also be used for private use then you should be able to turn any surveillance systems off during private use, or at least have control of recordings made during private use.

There is a legitimate reason for recording audio on a dashcam, you can often hear an impact that can't be seen, it is good evidence. As long as they haven't installed the dashcam without your knowledge and hidden it so that you will not know it is there then it will be legal in a company vehicle being used on company business.

With any surveillance system, it's not the recording that is really the issue, it's what it is used for. They will need to comply with the data protection act and privacy law. If a recording of a private conversation was put on YouTube without your permission then there would be a serious problem and it would certainly be illegal, just listening to a private conversation is probably illegal - they should skip over it, if the recordings are never viewed unless there is an accident and then only viewed with your permission then there shouldn't be anything to worry about and no laws broken. If your employer is using them for monitoring your driving then they need to be very careful and you should certainly be made aware of what they are doing, but it is the same as any office job, employees can be monitored. If they are collecting personal data about you then it should be covered by the data protection act, what they are keeping should be registered and you should have access to it.

 

[kamkar]

We discourage personal calls whilst driving because even with hands free it distracts them

Thats what i feel too, so i am pretty happy i only get 1 call a day at the most, and i don't drive much.

I prefer to pull over and call back, or just wait until i get home and let the person call again, which he will do if its important, and wont do if its just a BS conversation which all know i hate on the phone.

 

[M Basta]

A guy I work with took his car to the dealership for some service and forgot to take out his dashcam. Apparently he's got footage of the technicians and one of the employees talking serious crap about him and making various derogatory statements. He claims he was nice and polite to everyone there (as he usually is) but I guess they either just didn't like him and/or they're just that type of people. Doesn't sound like they did anything illegal or fraudulent other than insult him and say things that doesn't inspire him to want to go back there for business (I think this was his first time there). He doesn't seem angry about it, but I think it basically hurt his feelings as he felt it was all unwarranted.

Anyway, the dealership keeps hounding him with emails asking him to complete a survey/review of his visit as apparently customer feedback is important to their standings with the luxury car brand/manufacturer they represent. He wants to tell them what happened but he's undecided. I wasn't sure how to advise him, but I told him he'd probably have to reveal the source for his discontentment and bad review, and doing so might draw the ire of those who may feel they were recorded in secret or maybe violated. He claims he always takes everything out of his car, but forgot about the cam and happened to catch it while reviewing other footage. On one hand he just wants to forget about it and move on, but on the other he has a nagging feeling to let the management know what happened.

Any thoughts?

 

[Ralph2]

but forgot about the cam and happened to catch it while reviewing other footage

Of course he forgot.. . and just happened across the footage. .
At the risk of starting a flame war..Folk that have audio recording on all the time are deliberately trying to catch confidential conversations.

 

[Nigel]

Any thoughts?

Recordings of private conversations should be treated as being private, even if they were in a public place. It was probably normal everyday language and behaviour in that particular workplace and nothing bad was meant by it, you shouldn't judge it by the standards of the your own workplace or whatever location you happen to view it in.

Unless you find evidence of bad workmanship, it is often best not to watch dashcam footage recorded at the dealership, everyone ends up happier that way!

 

[DT MI]

...Folk that have audio recording on all the time are deliberately trying to catch confidential conversations.

Wrong!!!

 

[M Basta]

Of course he forgot.. . and just happened across the footage. .
At the risk of starting a flame war..Folk that have audio recording on all the time are deliberately trying to catch confidential conversations.

It's possible he did it intentionally. I'm just taking him at his word. He's older guy in his mid 60's who had one of his kids do the wiring and install for the cam (pretty stealth) so I don't know that he knows how to fidget with the audio settings, etc. or even knows that he can even turn it off.

I personally turn off audio on mine because the sound quality is unbearable with the very loud music I typically play, but I suspect everyone has different reasons for having audio on or off.

 

[M Basta]

Recordings of private conversations should be treated as being private, even if they were in a public place. It was probably normal everyday language and behaviour in that particular workplace and nothing bad was meant by it, you shouldn't judge it by the standards of the your own workplace or whatever location you happen to view it in.

Unless you find evidence of bad workmanship, it is often best not to watch dashcam footage recorded at the dealership, everyone ends up happier that way!

That was kind of my general advice as well, even if it meant he can't complete the review "honestly". Better yet, not complete it at all rather than completing wth false niceties. My advice was simply not to return there and spend his money elsewhere.

I did get the sense all the conversations took place inside the car. I don't know if they took it out on a drive or around the lot or something, but I think everything he captured took place inside the cabin while the car was being operated. I'll ask for clarity when I see him this week.

 

[country_hick]

In the U.S.A. the answer varies.
Some states are one party consent states. I consented to record what you say I am fine.

Other states are 2 party consent states. You have to agree to be recorded.

Then there is implied consent. I have a sign saying ti is recorded so you agree to the sign you never actually saw.

No privacy is expected in public. The supreme court has so declared. In a public place seemingly anything goes. In private is where it gets iffy.

 

[Nigel]

That was kind of my general advice as well, even if it meant he can't complete the review "honestly". Better yet, not complete it at all rather than completing wth false niceties. My advice was simply not to return there and spend his money elsewhere.

I did get the sense all the conversations took place inside the car. I don't know if they took it out on a drive or around the lot or something, but I think everything he captured took place inside the cabin while the car was being operated. I'll ask for clarity when I see him this week.

Probably 1 person inside operating the controls and 1 person outside checking things are OK. In that situation the person inside has almost nothing to do so they often make up something to talk about, often about the car or the owner and it is often complete rubbish that they wouldn't say in a public situation.

No privacy is expected in public. The supreme court has so declared. In a public place seemingly anything goes. In private is where it gets iffy.

Is a privately owned workspace a public place?

 

[Rajagra]

I told him he'd probably have to reveal the source for his discontentment and bad review

Not really. He could just say "I am aware that members of your staff made insulting comments about me." and leave it at that. Of course management may not take it seriously without proof, which would require divulging that a recording was made. But hey, if they are hounding him for feedback, he can give it without incriminating himself. Let them put 2+2 together.

 

[M Basta]

Not really. He could just say "I am aware that members of your staff made insulting comments about me." and leave it at that. Of course management may not take it seriously without proof, which would require divulging that a recording was made. But hey, if they are hounding him for feedback, he can give it without incriminating himself. Let them put 2+2 together.

That's a great point.

Also just reading through all the feedback in this thread, I realized I have some questions about the details of the footage that I didn't even think of asking him before, so I'm actually going to ask him if he would be willing to let me view it.

 

[Nigel]

That's a great point.

Also just reading through all the feedback in this thread, I realized I have some questions about the details of the footage that I didn't even think of asking him before, so I'm actually going to ask him if he would be willing to let me view it.

You wrote: "one of the employees talking serious crap about him and making various derogatory statements."
My question would be "Do they know each other?". If they know each other and they find that he has been spying on them then there could be trouble in future because it wont be forgotten. Being recorded isn't normally a problem, it only becomes an issue of spying when you watch a recording of a private conversation/situation and only becomes a problem when you act on what you have seen. Doesn't really matter if it was recorded in a public or private location, the result will be the same unless the legal people get involved.

 

[country_hick]

Is a privately owned workspace a public place?

I think that depends.

If the workspace is open to the public it should be a public place. (Think about a cashier at a store register) If it is a closed cubicle you work in I am not sure, but probably not because the public is not welcomed there. This is where the rubber meets the road and legal determinations are made. As every country could have different laws and each state or province could determine the answer differently based on local laws lawyers need to be consulted and then the judges get to make it legal or not in a court decision.