Tomorrow is the Big Day for Trial Run of the Panorama II/S

[hometechnc]

Just finished installing my new Panorama II/S and tomorrow will be a good test as I have to cover about 300 miles/480km.

As with any new cam, the firmware upgrade for 21mbps, and initial setup took a little while, but could do it all in about 5 minutes now. Will be using a Transcend, full-sized 64gb card recommended previously. My normal vehicle is going in the shop for the week, so this was a temp install in my Cadillac CTS.

I have tried 6-7 different dash cams, including the latest: FineVu CR-500HD, which most of you know that I despise as an over-priced piece of junk, and the Mobius Action Cam, which I love for it's video quality, but had other drawbacks.

I will post videos and opinion to this thread ASAP. Regards!

 

[hometechnc]

Sorry... guess my expectations were a bit too high. I covered almost 300 miles today, and just took a look at my video.

I'm using the V1.12.03 21mbps firmware, so this video should be as good as it gets... right? The early-dawn video looked very good, but not a lot of detail.

Under normal daylight is where I became quite disappointed. Even at 21mbps, I could not quite make out the license plate numbers of cars passing on either side of me. I can make these out clearly with my $70 Mobius Action Cam.

There was also a fair amount of color-shifting going on, and colors that were not very true. So far, the quality is better than the FineVu CR-500HD's that I have, but is not providing the level of detail that I need.

I will try different firmware versions, i.e. the 18 and 15mbps, and see if that makes any difference.

 

[niko]

Sorry... guess my expectations were a bit too high. I covered almost 300 miles today, and just took a look at my video.

I'm using the V1.12.03 21mbps firmware, so this video should be as good as it gets... right? The early-dawn video looked very good, but not a lot of detail.

Under normal daylight is where I became quite disappointed. Even at 21mbps, I could not quite make out the license plate numbers of cars passing on either side of me. I can make these out clearly with my $70 Mobius Action Cam.

There was also a fair amount of color-shifting going on, and colors that were not very true. So far, the quality is better than the FineVu CR-500HD's that I have, but is not providing the level of detail that I need.

I will try different firmware versions, i.e. the 18 and 15mbps, and see if that makes any difference.

Only bit-rate does not guarantee you seeing numberplates. Too much bit-rate is also no good. 21Mbps was asked by me just to prove that over 15Mbps ( maybe max 19Mbps ) - there are no significant changes, I spend nearly 30 hours of tests on this prove. For high-speed recording ( reading numberplate ), need high-speed frames ( FPS ), but even then it is not guaranteed reading numberplates. Recently I tested Pano2 1080p / 30fps vs some other new gen 1080p/60fps and did not see any improvements in nubmerplates reading from 1080/60. The only benefit was much smoother video, but not reading numberplates, because 1080p / 60fps used there is not quite right what they use in high-speed cinematography.
Colour shift, - yes, I agree, almost non of the colours is natural, but first of all: we are not shooting a Hollywood movie , + purpose of dashcam is different to for example RC cameras, and actially colour shift this was done for a reason to find best balance of colours for day and night recording for dashcam purpose to read / record details. With natural colours in day time, - if you drive at night, then many colours will wash out, but with Panorama2 having too strong ( heavy ) colours at day time, - it helps at night to reproduce colours in darker scenario use which other dashcams ( which has natural colours at day ) would struggle with colours at night.
So there are pros and cons, depending on what are you looking for from dashcam.

 

[hometechnc]

Only bit-rate does not guarantee you seeing numberplates. Too much bit-rate is also no good. 21Mbps was asked by me just to prove that over 15Mbps ( maybe max 19Mbps ) - there are no significant changes, I spend nearly 30 hours of tests on this prove. For high-speed recording ( reading numberplate ), need high-speed frames ( FPS ), but even then it is not guaranteed reading numberplates. Recently I tested Pano2 1080p / 30fps vs some other new gen 1080p/60fps and did not see any improvements in nubmerplates reading from 1080/60. The only benefit was much smoother video, but not reading numberplates, because 1080p / 60fps used there is not quite right what they use in high-speed cinematography.
Colour shift, - yes, I agree, almost non of the colours is natural, but first of all: we are not shooting a Hollywood movie , + purpose of dashcam is different to for example RC cameras, and actially colour shift this was done for a reason to find best balance of colours for day and night recording for dashcam purpose to read / record details. With natural colours in day time, - if you drive at night, then many colours will wash out, but with Panorama2 having too strong ( heavy ) colours at day time, - it helps at night to reproduce colours in darker scenario use which other dashcams ( which has natural colours at day ) would struggle with colours at night.
So there are pros and cons, depending on what are you looking for from dashcam.

Thank you Niko;
Just for the sake of discussion, I have 3 Mobius Action cams and they all record very nice video, rarely exhibit motion artifact, and read license plates quite clearly, @ 1080p / 30fps. It would be the perfect cam if GPS were available for it.

That is all I want, a Cam with the video quality of Mobius, with GPS. I thought that the Panorama II / S would give me that, but alas, another $200 experiment down the proverbial drain (toilet). sigh... But I will try the 15mbps firmware tomorrow and see if there are improvements.

 

[singlespeed]

Post your sample video. I think my Pano takes amazing video considering it's behind a windshield and was cheap. At the end of the day, at @niko said, it's a dashcam, not a high quality film grade camera. I think most people expectations are too high for a <$200 camera, but again in the event of an accident you'll have footage, the license plates are irrelevant at that point. In a hit and run, it might be more useful, but some evidence is better than none. This is a sample of mine at 1080p with a lower bit rate, when watch in 1080p on Youtube it's incredibly clear.

A sample at night.

 

[niko]

Post your sample video. I think my Pano takes amazing video considering it's behind a windshield and was cheap. At the end of the day, at @niko said, it's a dashcam, not a high quality film grade camera. I think most people expectations are too high for a <$200 camera, but again in the event of an accident you'll have footage, the license plates are irrelevant at that point. In a hit and run, it might be more useful, but some evidence is better than none. This is a sample of mine at 1080p with a lower bit rate, when watch in 1080p on Youtube it's incredibly clear.

A sample at night.

You right. Its maybe not producing same correct natural colours like we record with movie cameras, but purpose of dashcam and its colour adjustments are set for other purposes. Colours are shifted in order to have balance of colours recording between day and night, thats why they look too strong at day and sky is too bright but it has been done in order to see colours when recorded at night. If colours are set to natural real life as we see them in day time, then at night they will be dull.
Reading numberplates it does on same level like other well known reputable competitors, no difference here.
The only thing I would change myself personally is having slightly narrower FOV, lets say 130-140 degree. This would bring numberplates closer.

 

[spotnz]

if one picture is worth a thousand words. How much is a video at 30 fps worth.

Considering how long I expect to have it my P II, including the fitting of the constant power supple, which was the same cost as the P II. I expect that the cost will be well around 60 cents per day, including consumables ( sd cards ).

good luck on the trip

david

 

[spotnz]

The only thing I would change myself personally is having slightly narrower FOV, lets say 130-140 degree. This would bring number plates closer.

that'd also make distances more normal looking & easier to guage.

A twin lens camera should be able to fix that. Although modern tech being what it is, maybe there's an e-solution ??? I hope so, as I feel safer with the wide FOV.

david

 

[niko]

if one picture is worth a thousand words. How much is a video at 30 fps worth.

Considering how long I expect to have it my P II, including the fitting of the constant power supple, which was the same cost as the P II. I expect that the cost will be well around 60 cents per day, including consumables ( sd cards ).

good luck on the trip

david

Good calculations @ cost per day. I see U like book-keeping

About 1080p 30fps I can say that there is no difference in numberplates reading ( frame by frame ) vs todays dashcams 1080p 60fps technology, after I did some side by side tests vs new gen A7LA70D 1080p 60fps dashcam. I am still working on full understanding why my expectation @ 1080/60 did not live up to real results I hoped to get and its going to be other topic. Need some time to put all info together.

 

[niko]

that'd also make distances more normal looking & easier to guage.

A twin lens camera should be able to fix that. Although modern tech being what it is, maybe there's an e-solution ??? I hope so, as I feel safer with the wide FOV.

david

I also supporting idea of twin narrow lens solution and slowly pointing out this to some manufacturers, but maybe high-end manufacturers not ready yet to take a risk into innovative tech. Need more demand from end market, then manufacturers will start producing them more and more.

Maybe Garmin have good ready solution, but need to see and test it in real life:

http://dashcamtalk.com/forum/threads/garmin-gdr190-twin-lens-200°-fov-gps-fcws.5352/

 

[leftlanehog]

in regards to reading plates with the Pano II/S-

I believe the fisheye distorts enough of the image to make the small numbers on plates not look as good as one might expect based on reviews and price.
But, even my wide angle mobius is about the same.

Now, my Type A Mobius is great at reading plates but for whatever reason I like the fish eye for my front cam for the "bigger picture".

Also, if I need to know a plate #, I will verbally say the # so the microphone will be able record that data/audio....not much help in a parking lot hit and run tho.

I am sure my Pano lens is slightly out of focus(yours might be also), or at least can be improved based on alexsolls videos. It's good enough for me but I know the focus could be improved based on other vids I've seen after the member re-focused the lens manually.(something I am not comfortable doing quite yet..and like I said, it's good enough)

I would recommend holding off on buying more cams if you are expecting video quality to be absolutely amazing(easily readable plates at any angle).....this is what I plan on doing(holding off until the next generation of cams come out with proven amazing video quality...might be a while...and currently, I question if there is anything better than the Pano S-let me know if there is...I am interested...I can always swap the Pano to the rear)

FYI-my mobius has now shut off twice due to heat(I think)...Pano S in same conditions hasn't missed a beat. pros/cons.

I think the Pano will grow on you...


If you have the Mobius with you, set both cams up and compare on your drive back....you might see the difference(hard to say since mobius does have excellent day time quality).

Do the same thing at night/dark and I think you will clearly see the Pano has the better quality at night vs the mobius.

 

[singlespeed]

At their current price point they're good enough. I'm happy to have them fitted to both cars, at least they're always capturing video, it's not perfect, but certainly above average. I have no requirement or desire to read license plates though, I just don't car to. As long as the video looks better than those CCTV clips the news shows from robberies I'm happy, and it does so it'll be useful for posting videos of dumbasses on the road or helpful in the aftermath of an incident.