Vantrue E360

[Jeff_Vantrue]

Wow this is a great idea, Vantrue are you listening? Although I have to wonder if the designers had some other constraints we don't understand. This optics technology is challenging.

Thank you for the suggestion. However, this would no longer be a panoramic dash cam, as the different angles wouldn’t allow for seamless stitching. Our next-generation dual 4K product is already in development.

 

[Nigel]

Has anybody asked VIOFO why there is a 38° difference between Panzer's measurement and their specification?

Viofo give the lens specification, which is for a circular lens, effectively the diagonal FoV, while Panzer is measuring the horizontal FoV of the image.

Using a right angle triangle calculator (Pythagoras), I see that the lens FoV needs to be 16° more than the horizontal FoV, so that leaves 22° to explain, 11° each side. Unless you use the 4:3 aspect ratio, then you need 26° more, which only leaves 12° to explain, 6° per side.

Lenses tend to lose quality towards the sides/corners, having a lens specified a little larger than necessary keeps image quality high to the very corners of the image.

Hope my maths is right! Viofo's figure does seem reasonable to me, it is just not the same measurement as Panzers, and not as useful.

 

[Panzer Platform]

Has anybody asked VIOFO why there is a 38° difference between Panzer's measurement and their specification?

I can’t find the explanation so I’ll give you a brief summary from my defective recollection.
I’m sure 50% will be incorrect so, I’ll illuminate the Bat Signal, and @Nigel can fill in the blanks.
I always knew something was fishy with manufacturer claimed FOV specifications.
I became obsessed with measuring / verifying listed FOV specifications when I saw how easy it was to read a telephone number on a propane truck when I was testing the;
A139 Pro IMX678 (2023) specification 140° / measured 111°
A229 Duo IMX335 (2022) specification 140° / measured ???°
A119 Mini 2 IMX675 (2023) specification 140° / measured 99° (original lens)
A119 Mini IMX335 (2022) specification 140° / measured 93°

All four cameras have the same 140° listed specification, but provide different recorded footage FOV’s.
Ever since then I’ve always wanted a Viofo 4K model with the “narrow” 93° lens from the original A119 Mini (2022), but’s it’s not possible, (more on that later).
A bit later is when I started the “VIOFO Horizontal FOV Database” to measure / document all past & future cameras.

Thread 'VIOFO Horizontal FOV Database'

Nov 28, 2023

The purpose of this thread is to document the measured FOV of all future Viofo Dash Cams I receive for test & review, (and previous models).
Shoutout to these gentlemen for helping me revise my testing jig, and measurement procedure.
@rcg530 @Vortex Radar @Nigel @DT MI @Karagandinez @gse @Dex_

I settled on this method because all you need is a wall, and a yardstick.
It’s easy to duplicate so anyone can confirm & verify my measurements.
The hardest part to maintain accuracy is to place the camera lens in the same location every time, (50cm from...

• Panzer Platform
• Replies: 54
• Forum: VIOFO Other

• 

Now that I had evidence documented I was able to get an ex[planation from Viofo.
Q: Why do all your cameras have the same 140° FOV listed specification, but each camera provides a different FOV on the recorded footage?
A: Keep on mind I’m paraphrasing;
Dash cam manufacturers do not make lenses.
They simply buy them from a vendor (lens manufacturer).
The lens manufacturer provides a specification for each lens to the dash cam manufacturer.
The dash cam manufacturer uses this provided specification for their camera specifications.
However, once the lens is mounted to an image sensor, and the image sensor / lens assembly is installed in a camera housing the final assembled FOV is different.
Also, the same lens mounted on different image sensors will produce different FOV’s.

Once the camera is a final assembled product, my common sense would suggest dash cam manufacturers would check lens focus & assembled lens FOV as part of R&D, and Quality Control.
I actually have a clip of a BlackVue Lens Focus Inspector. Lol

I also discovered Viofo is using more expensive / higher quality lenses compared to Vantrue when I was testing the Vantrue S1 Pro.
During night time HDR performance testing I kept seeing an “internal lens flare reflection” whenever I pointed the camera at a direct light source on the S1 Pro, that was absent with the A119 Mini 2.
It was easy to diagnose because both cameras were on my test rig without any obstruction, (no windshield, no CPL Filter)
Nigel said it’s because Viofo uses fully coated lenses.
You can see the “internal lens flare reflection” in this S1 Pro test footage.
And you can see it’s absent in the A119 Mini 2 footage.

Clear as mud?

 

[kamkar]

I have a google account in the name of Frodrik Fronkensteen 🙂

 

[Nigel]

Dash cam manufacturers do not make lenses.
They simply buy them from a vendor (lens manufacturer).

A lens factory is pretty expensive, and few people have the knowledge to make a good lens, it doesn't make sense for dashcam manufacturers to make the lenses any more than making the screws.

However Viofo don't exactly "simply" buy them, they put a great deal of effort into getting a good lens, and the lens manufacturers will sometimes make custom lenses, or custom specifications for the dashcam manufacturers.

I also discovered Viofo is using more expensive / higher quality lenses compared to Vantrue when I was testing the Vantrue S1 Pro.

Yes, some glass is more expensive than others, some lens shapes are more expensive to make than others, some lens anti-reflection coatings are more expensive than others, and the cost depends on how many of the surfaces you coat, how many coatings on each, how many lens elements are aspheric, if there are any apochromatic elements...

Nigel said it’s because Viofo uses fully coated lenses.

I don't know if that is correct, but it is clear from looking at the results, that Viofo does use more, and better coatings than most other dashcam manufacturers, maybe all others. Recent Viofo dashcams have been very good on lens reflections, especially for the front cameras, cheap dashcams tend to have big problems when driving into the sun, with Viofo dashcams you don't tend to notice any issue, and when you do get some lens reflections, they are often nice rather than making the plates unreadable.

Also, the lens coatings increase the "brightness" of the lens, they make the lens elements more transmissive of the light, so you end up with less motion blur in the image, just from having good lens coatings, sometimes that makes a plate readable when it otherwise wouldn't be.

Also, the same lens mounted on different image sensors will produce different FOV’s.

And if you are measuring diagonal FoV, which is the normal, then it is different for 16:9 aspect ratio than it is for 4:3 aspect ratio or 21:9 aspect ratio! For some reason, Sony's 2K sensors are 4:3, while the 4K sensors are 16:9, which means that comparing FoV between 2K and 4K gives misleading results, both for lens FoV and for image diagonal FoV. Not sure why Viofo use a 4:3 lens though, they could disable 4:3 and use a smaller lens which will still provide 16:9 but not 4:3.

If you only ever measure horizontal FoV of the final video image, as @Panzer Platform does, then everything is simple and easy to understand, and it is not affected by aspect ratio. Or at least it shouldn't be, on some dashcams it is!

 

[Nigel]

I also discovered Viofo is using more expensive / higher quality lenses compared to Vantrue when I was testing the Vantrue S1 Pro.

Since this is a Vantrue thread, I will point out that there is nothing wrong with using lower quality components, it tends to make the dashcam cheaper, and for many people cheaper is good. There is always a compromise to make, Viofo concentrate on image quality more than other manufacturers, but then they don't do cloud stuff or ADAS. It is good to have a choice. If you never drive towards a low sun, then you may never notice the lens reflections... But I do find the sun is quite often in an inconvenient location, not helped by the UK being in a more northerly location than many places, where the sun spends a lot of time low down during the winter months. Of course bright headlamps at night also cause lens reflections, although they tend not to be so noticeable.

 

[Panzer Platform]

Since this is a Vantrue thread, I will point out that there is nothing wrong with using lower quality components

Apologies to OP for going off topic but, were talking about lenses, let me know, and I’ll delete this post, and start a new thread.

It looks like BlackVue is also using low quality lenses, but still charging premium price.
Take a look at the “internal lens flare reflection” on the DR900X, and the DR900X Plus.
Now look at the A139 Pro HDR On/Off.
Like magic, no lens flare.

(I have a feeling Nigel is going to like the A139 Pro clip with HDR On, it’s the only time I’ve ever enabled HDR during the daytime. lol)
Q: Why am I pointing dash cams directly at the sun anyways?
A: Because I have no idea what I’m doing. lol

 

[Nigel]

(I have a feeling Nigel is going to like the A139 Pro clip with HDR On, it’s the only time I’ve ever enabled HDR during the daytime. lol)

You've sort of got a sun halo there, seems the A139 Pro is good for astrophotography!

Q: Why am I pointing dash cams directly at the sun anyways?

It is a good test of a dashcam lens, and an important one since we do drive into a low sun at times.

 

[Hack_man]

This was a good example of why the HDR timer is so useful and makes me glad I'm using it. HDR = OFF during the day.
These Blackvue cameras evidently don't support HDR.
Too bad that the video footage wasn't the same for all 4 cases but I think the point was clear about the Lens flare.

 

[TonyM]

So, getting back to the E360.... I'm curious to see how useful the side-facing view is (the ~60deg zone to the left and right of the car not covered by a conventional front & rear dashcam setup).

This view should help at T-junctions, roundabouts etc where you have vehicles or other road users approaching from the side.

I had dedicated side-facing cameras in my old car, which had fixed side windows. I don't have that option in my new car, so I'm hoping the E360 might go some way towards filling the gap.

 

[Hack_man]

So, getting back to the E360.... I'm curious to see how useful the side-facing view is (the ~60deg zone to the left and right of the car not covered by a conventional front & rear dashcam setup).

This view should help at T-junctions, roundabouts etc where you have vehicles or other road users approaching from the side.

I had dedicated side-facing cameras in my old car, which had fixed side windows. I don't have that option in my new car, so I'm hoping the E360 might go some way towards filling the gap.

I have some videos I can post screenshots.

 

[Hack_man]

Hack_man said:
Has anybody asked VIOFO why there is a 38° difference between Panzer's measurement and their specification?

I can’t find the explanation so I’ll give you a brief summary from my defective recollection.
I’m sure 50% will be incorrect so, I’ll illuminate the Bat Signal, and @Nigel can fill in the blanks.
I always knew something was fishy with manufacturer claimed FOV specifications.
I became obsessed with measuring / verifying listed FOV specifications when I saw how easy it was to read a telephone number on a propane truck when I was testing the;
A139 Pro IMX678 (2023) specification 140° / measured 111°
A229 Duo IMX335 (2022) specification 140° / measured ???°
A119 Mini 2 IMX675 (2023) specification 140° / measured 99° (original lens)
A119 Mini IMX335 (2022) specification 140° / measured 93°

All four cameras have the same 140° listed specification, but provide different recorded footage FOV’s.
Ever since then I’ve always wanted a Viofo 4K model with the “narrow” 93° lens from the original A119 Mini (2022), but’s it’s not possible, (more on that later).
A bit later is when I started the “VIOFO Horizontal FOV Database” to measure / document all past & future cameras.

Now that I had evidence documented I was able to get an ex[planation from Viofo.
Q: Why do all your cameras have the same 140° FOV listed specification, but each camera provides a different FOV on the recorded footage?
A: Keep on mind I’m paraphrasing;
Dash cam manufacturers do not make lenses.
They simply buy them from a vendor (lens manufacturer).
The lens manufacturer provides a specification for each lens to the dash cam manufacturer.
The dash cam manufacturer uses this provided specification for their camera specifications.
However, once the lens is mounted to an image sensor, and the image sensor / lens assembly is installed in a camera housing the final assembled FOV is different.
Also, the same lens mounted on different image sensors will produce different FOV’s.

Once the camera is a final assembled product, my common sense would suggest dash cam manufacturers would check lens focus & assembled lens FOV as part of R&D, and Quality Control.

Thank you for this explanation. I would have thought the same thing you said in your last statement above.

 

[Karagandinez]

Another question about E360:
Can this model be installed on vertical glass in a bus or truck?

Can the E360 be mounted upside-down, on the dashboard? That might increase the number of options for suitable mounting locations in a car.

I can see that it works upside-down on the stick, so in the car it should be the same?

yes, it can be mounted upside-down on the dashboard.

It is impossible to install the E360 out of the box on either a vertical surface, such as a truck window, or on a horizontal surface of a dashboard.
You need to come up with an additional mount.



By adding a couple of parts to the standard mount, the E360 can be mounted on vertical or horizontal surfaces.

 

[Karagandinez]

Some original photos:

Packaging E360_ACE

 

[Karagandinez]

Main camera



Rear camera



E360_ACE kit



Main camera on a handle with a battery

 

[Karagandinez]

​

Vantrue E360 5.2K 360° Panoramic Dash Cam / Dual STARVIS 2 / HDR / Wi-Fi / GPS / Touchscreen / Voice Control


Specifications:

Processor: Novatek NT98530

Image sensors:

Front: Sony STARVIS 2 IMX675
Interior: Sony STARVIS 2 IMX675
Rear: Sony STARVIS IMX335

Lens:

Front: F2.2 210°
Interior: F2.2 210°
Rear: F1.8 165°

HDR
GPS
5 GHz WiFi
Supercapacitor
OTA Updates via the app
Voice control
Touch screen LCD
24/7 Buffered Parking Mode
Support up to 512GB microSD card
Support LTE-Module

 

[Karagandinez]

This is how I installed the E360 in my car, since there is no suitable place on the windshield.
In the spring, the E360 will move to the minibus on the windshield.
It will look better there. 😉

 

[Karagandinez]

Screenshot from a normal shooting file.

 

[Hack_man]

Have you tried the OTA Firmware update yet?

 

[Karagandinez]

Have you tried the OTA Firmware update yet?

Yes, I updated it through the app today.