Vegas shooting - Taxi Cab View

No any camera can be put out of commission, with a hoodie / mask or a stolen license-plate.

Sure if there are a system and stolen plates get into it pretty fast that would make it easy if the gas station was also tied into the ANPR system, so instead of getting free stolen gasoline you get the cops responding when you arrive at the gas station.
Problem here then are we dont have enough cops to respond to such mundane things like theft of a little gasoline, though gasoline theft on a national bases run up in XX millions every year.
And i just found out on some gas stations you have to hand over your car keys in order to pay for and then pump gas, that tell a little about the problem here at least on some gas stations ( i think located close to a so called ghetto area as crime of any kind are always higher there )
I read about one Shell gas station averaging around 600.000 DKkr ( 95,000 USD ) in stolen gasoline every month :eek: and its is stand up people that have to make up for that, Shell dont just shrug their shoulders and say O well.

PS. Do remember gasoline are extremely expensive here due to taxes ASO, so that's one reason its so much money.
 
Never seen THAT here! Scan your plate number to buy gas? Once again another strong example of the UK total surveillance state.
So many problems on so many levels with privacy rights. Once again an example of using technology to take the place of sound reasoning and common sense.
 
Obviously, the majority of the populace are not learning from the mistakes of the past.

not something I'd ever heard of happening, privacy concerns aside it's hard to imagine how big a problem they would have to have that this would actually be a workable cost effective solution
 
Well i think we Danes have the same level or more CCTV cameras, though most here are private ones like mine.
But i have to say i wish they where not needed or seen upon as a solution to any problem, i really dont like i will have to put myself in harms way if i catch anyone vandalizing my car again.
I should be able to call the police and then they will take care of it, but sadly that's not how things work in my home country anymore. :oops: and for that i am to blame too, problem is i am aware of that, where as most just scatter blame around on everyone else.
And i sure dont like the amount of data that are stored on Danes, cuz it have been proven again and again that that data are not safe and have been breached on several accounts.
Also dont like how i am mined and tracked for data on the internet, there should be laws against such things.
 
not something I'd ever heard of happening, privacy concerns aside it's hard to imagine how big a problem they would have to have that this would actually be a workable cost effective solution
I am not trying to be trivial about this, but the scenario outlined presents such an enormous problem with logistics, and the disregard for personal protections is absolutely absurd in my view.
 
I am not trying to be trivial about this, but the scenario outlined presents such an enormous problem with logistics, and the disregard for personal protections is absolutely absurd in my view.

yeah I have to say I find the technical side of the back end processes hard to imagine working, sounds a bit too urban legend even in this day and age
 
yeah I have to say I find the technical side of the back end processes hard to imagine working, sounds a bit too urban legend even in this day and age
I reread that post and it appeared to be presented as fact. Suppose I should just regard it as internet crap and move forward. I agree with you totally by the way.
 
Vehicle movements on UK roads are recorded by a network of around 8500 cameras capturing between 25 and 35 million ANPR ‘read’ records daily.

Apparently, part of the rational for ANPR at petrol stations in the UK is to prevent drivers from filling their cars if they don't have insurance.

CCTV at petrol stations will automatically stop uninsured cars being filled with fuel

It's hard to fathom the cost and complexity of such a system versus the return to society or the insurance industry when the same results can be achieved literally for free. Where I live ALL motor vehicles are required to have a once yearly safety and emissions inspection. To receive your valid inspection sticker you need to present proof of current insurance to the inspection station. It's that simple and it costs nothing. All car insurance policies are provided yearly with a small insurance certificate that you are required to keep in your vehicle anyway and which you would need to present to a LEO along with your driver's license if pulled over. Without the the highly visible proper inspection sticker on your windshield you will be pulled over by the police and cited with a very expensive ticket with or without insurance.

There is quite a lot of evidence that all these disparate surveillance systems in the UK are part of a large integrated system that comes under the Investigatory Powers Act 2016.
Vehicle movements on UK roads are recorded by a network of around 8500 cameras capturing between 25 and 35 million ANPR ‘read’ records daily. It's not really about car insurance.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_surveillance_in_the_United_Kingdom
 
it would seem not being able to buy fuel is a by product of the system rather than the intention of the system, perhaps it wasn't so clear in the way it was explained previously

we have ANPR systems here as well but they're fitted to police vehicles rather than being a static system, it's primarily about raising revenue though
 
I read about one Shell gas station averaging around 600.000 DKkr ( 95,000 USD ) in stolen gasoline every month :eek: and its is stand up people that have to make up for that, Shell dont just shrug their shoulders and say O well.
Hard to find figures, but in the UK it appears that on average a gas station has about 80 non-payment incidents a year.
yeah I have to say I find the technical side of the back end processes hard to imagine working, sounds a bit too urban legend even in this day and age
It works well, and is quite simple, not sure why you think it would be technically difficult, just needs some ANPR cameras, which we have, some databases and the internet!
Here is a link for one of the systems: http://www.essa.co.uk/page/petrol-stations/57/


Where I live ALL motor vehicles are required to have a once yearly safety and emissions inspection. To receive your valid inspection sticker you need to present proof of current insurance to the inspection station. It's that simple and it costs nothing. All car insurance policies are provided yearly with a small insurance certificate that you are required to keep in your vehicle anyway and which you would need to present to a LEO along with your driver's license if pulled over. Without the the highly visible proper inspection sticker on your windshield you will be pulled over by the police and cited with a very expensive ticket with or without insurance.
We used to have a system almost identical, but it didn't work well, so now we still have to get our cars tested annually, but the paperwork is all gone - the testing station checks your insurance simply by filling in your car registration number on the online test document, we don't bother with the inspection sticker since the police can check the database simply by pointing their ANPR camera at your car and thus its impossible to make a fake sticker and we don't need a test certificate or insurance certificate since they are available online and impossible to fake. You can print a pdf version yourself if desired which is legally valid but normally of little use.

Doesn't stop some people driving without insurance though!

it would seem not being able to buy fuel is a by product of the system rather than the intention of the system, perhaps it wasn't so clear in the way it was explained previously

we have ANPR systems here as well but they're fitted to police vehicles rather than being a static system, it's primarily about raising revenue though
Not an intention or a by-product, just different organisations linking up the databases for their own purposes and in return contributing extra data for the benefit of others. There are legal limits to what can be extracted, what you can store and what it can be used for, so far it seems to benefit everyone other than the criminals.
 
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We used to have a system almost identical, but it didn't work well, so now we still have to get our cars tested annually, but the paperwork is all gone - the testing station checks your insurance simply by filling in your car registration number on the online test document, we don't bother with the inspection sticker since the police can check the database simply by pointing their ANPR camera at your car and thus its impossible to make a fake sticker and we don't need a test certificate or insurance certificate since they are available online and impossible to fake. You can print a pdf version yourself if desired which is legally valid.

Your system is costly and overly complex. It compromises privacy and is part of the UK surveillance state offered up under the guise of convenience. Not clear why such simple system as I describe "didn't work well". It's worked smoothly here for many years. Inspection stickers here are printed on special reflective material and include holographic stamping. They are impossible to forge unless one wishes to spend vastly more than the cost of inspection.
 
it would seem not being able to buy fuel is a by product of the system rather than the intention of the system, perhaps it wasn't so clear in the way it was explained previously

we have ANPR systems here as well but they're fitted to police vehicles rather than being a static system, it's primarily about raising revenue though

I would agree.

Our ANPR system seems to be about the same as yours. Here though, it is also used in part to scan for stolen vehicles, suspects and generalized police work but I did hear a story of some married guy who somehow got caught parked at a motel while having an affair. I think it had something to do with a private investigator having access to the data.
 
Irregardless of the stated purpose of these systems it constitutes a significant invasion of privacy. Legitimate law enforcement purposes account for a small fraction of license plate scans, thus opening the door to widespread tracking of a person's whereabouts, habits and personal lives. Private entities then sell the database information derived from these scans to law enforcement, insurance agencies and anyone else who is willing to pay for this information. The end result will be an erosion once again of the personal protections that most of us value. Government always promises to faithfully guard your personal information and protect your personal lives against casual scrutiny. Now some are trying to sell this pig disguised as insurance protection, or in some cases trying to catch approximately 80 people stealing gas a year from a gas station. Always amazing to me what promises people are willing to accept in their live's. @Dashmellow is correct that the older established systems work just fine when properly administered and enforced.
 
Your system is costly and overly complex. It compromises privacy and is part of the UK surveillance state offered up under the guise of convenience. Not clear why such simple system as I describe "didn't work well". It's worked smoothly here for many years. Inspection stickers here are printed on special reflective material and include holographic stamping. They are impossible to forge unless one wishes to spend vastly more than the cost of inspection.
Are you saying that printing an inspection sticker on special reflective material with holographic stamping is cheaper and less complex than sending an email? And what about the system for replacing lost stickers, which we don't need any more? Are the inspection stickers given out by the test centre, in which case they can be faked, or sent out centrally in which case you have to pay for snail mail and deal with the possibility of the mail getting lost?

The fact that you have needed to implement holographic stickers implies that they must have been faked in the past and probably still are whenever someone manages to get their hands on a stolen batch of current holograms!

Our online system is considerably simpler and more convenient to use than the old paper system used to be, I definitely don't want to go back!

Irregardless of the stated purpose of these systems it constitutes a significant invasion of privacy. Legitimate law enforcement purposes account for a small fraction of license plate scans, thus opening the door to widespread tracking of a person's whereabouts, habits and personal lives. Private entities then sell the database information derived from these scans to law enforcement, insurance agencies and anyone else who is willing to pay for this information. The end result will be an erosion once again of the personal protections that most of us value. Government always promises to faithfully guard your personal information and protect your personal lives against casual scrutiny. Now some are trying to sell this pig disguised as insurance protection, or in some cases trying to catch approximately 80 people stealing gas a year from a gas station. Always amazing to me what promises people are willing to accept in their live's. @Dashmellow is correct that the older established systems work just fine when properly administered and enforced.
Our car number plates are designed to be visible for anyone interested to be able to read, always have been, if someone wanted to implement our ANPR related systems without computers or the internet then it would be possible and legal. Just put a person with a notepad at the entrance to every gas station. Of course it would be expensive and probably work very poorly but it has always been possible.

If we were as concerned about privacy as you appear to be then we would get rid of the car number plates and all wear face masks when in public places. Maybe that is why in the USA plates are so difficult for cameras to read and why you often don't have them on the front? The rest of the world has plates very similar to ours.
 
Irregardless of the stated purpose of these systems it constitutes a significant invasion of privacy. Legitimate law enforcement purposes account for a small fraction of license plate scans, thus opening the door to widespread tracking of a person's whereabouts, habits and personal lives. Private entities then sell the database information derived from these scans to law enforcement, insurance agencies and anyone else who is willing to pay for this information. The end result will be an erosion once again of the personal protections that most of us value. Government always promises to faithfully guard your personal information and protect your personal lives against casual scrutiny. Now some are trying to sell this pig disguised as insurance protection, or in some cases trying to catch approximately 80 people stealing gas a year from a gas station. Always amazing to me what promises people are willing to accept in their live's. @Dashmellow is correct that the older established systems work just fine when properly administered and enforced.

Often when I wind up in an "argument" with someone on the topic of mass surveillance and privacy someone will say, "But I have nothing to hide!" Recently this discussion arose while I was out with my Sunday hiking group which is open to the public. A fellow made that remark and I asked him to let me see his wallet. When asked why I want to see his wallet, I told him I just want to look through it. "No WAY" he replied. Then I said, "But you just said you have nothing to hide, that doesn't seem to be quite the case now, does it?" With a shocked look on his face he uttered, "Oh".
 
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Are you saying that printing an inspection sticker on special reflective material with holographic stamping is cheaper and less complex than sending an email? And what about the system for replacing lost stickers, which we don't need any more? Are the inspection stickers given out by the test centre, in which case they can be faked, or sent out centrally in which case you have to pay for snail mail and deal with the possibility of the mail getting lost?

Our online system is considerably simpler and more convenient to use than the old paper system used to be, I definitely don't want to go back!


Our car number plates are designed to be visible for anyone interested to be able to read, always have been, if someone wanted to implement our ANPR related systems without computers or the internet then it would be possible and legal. Just put a person with a notepad at the entrance to every gas station. Of course it would be expensive and probably work very poorly but it has always been possible.

If we were as concerned about privacy as you appear to be then we would get rid of the car number plates and all wear face masks when in public places. Maybe that is why in the USA plates are so difficult for cameras to read and why you often don't have them on the front? The rest of the world has plates very similar to ours.

Not everyone who is driving a particular vehicle will receive the email or even be the owner. Law enforcement needs a simple visual indicator of the status of the vehicle rather than having to spend time looking up your vehicle. And what happens if the system is off line? Such rationals as you promote are ridiculous unless, of course you wish to be subjected to a willing police state. And how can you claim that an email costs nothing compared to a sticker without considering the enormous cost of the ANPR surveillance system in the first place?!!

Stickers are easily replaced at negligible cost. Happens all the time such as when a windshield needs replacing. And no, they are not easily faked nor are testing mechanics willing to risk their state licenses over something as small and petty as an inspection sticker.
 
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